AUSTIN | ABIA Updates

[hereinaustin]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

The renderings look great!

Just looked over the master plan PDF again and unless I'm not considering other factors such as where everything is placed, why couldn't they just build the south terminal exactly like the main terminal? Same design and shape? It's a great design which should be replicated if possible.

Depending on the concept they ultimately choose, the South terminal will be similar, but not identical. I believe they were wanting to separate the screening/passenger pick-up/drop-off area from the main terminal so that it's less crowded, or something like that. I think that's why they're going for the "H" shape.

[lzppjb]

Originally Posted by jbssfelix

I'll start.

Torchy's!

Torchy's
Home Slice or Via 313
Serrano's or some other Tex-Mexy place
Dan's Hamburgers

[jbssfelix]

Originally Posted by lzppjb

Torchy's
Home Slice or Via 313
Serrano's or some other Tex-Mexy place
Dan's Hamburgers

I would be ok with any (or all) of these. Although I may end up too fat to get onto the airplane.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by Mikey711MN

All in all, it's a distinctive expansion of the existing terminal without standing out as a wholly separate facility.

Also, as an interesting feature, it looks like an outdoor seating area either near or explicitly for a large restaurant on the east end!

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Here we clearly see that Gates E10 and E11 will have dual loading bridges with the "a" designation likely for premium passengers loading in the front.

The feature restaurant will have an interior "upper deck" for seating. Judging by the image here, this is surely going to get a lot of attention from the architects.

As a side note, the rendering mimics taking a photo of the restaurant from the second level. It appears that the secure area for arrivals from Gate 11, for example, will proceed up to a second level hallway, walk west toward an area above Gate 9, cross north to above Gate 8, and then west toward the Immigration facilities. That will give the east end a very open feel as an area of its own, i.e. the two-story ceiling will not extend the full length of the terminal expansion.

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I thought the concession layout was interesting, particularly as it includes the airport's first dedicated Duty Free store.

It may be fun to speculate on which Austin-area institutions may set up shop in the airport who don't already have a presence. And I really hope the airport maintains a distinctly Austin feel, i.e. few chains and more local establishments.

****From where did you get these renderings and information??? It seems to be from a larger report/presentation. Is there a link to the entire report/presentation? If so, please post it.

Thanks!

[Austin1971]

[q

[hereinaustin]

Originally Posted by Austin1971

Once the new parking garage/office is constructed next to the CONRAC all the administrative offices currently located on the secure side will be moved making that space available for conversion to lounges and/or restaurants.

When is that project supposed to start?

[ATXboom]

Originally Posted by hereinaustin

When is that project supposed to start?

Second that... when?

[Speculator]

Way to go Austin! That's a great terminal expansion. Love the openness, the spacing, the seating- fantastic job.

I would like to know if the outside seating is part of a lounge expansion. *A did at TBIT, JetBlue did at T5 JFK and of course Munich has the beer garden. Seems like the latest trend.

And duty free...Austin is growing up.

[Austin1971]

[

[brando]

Originally Posted by Mikey711MN

FWIW, ABIA will likely be updating their master plan in 2017 or so, so any longer-term preferences would be reflected in that document.

Likely however I don't think they'll change their preference for a new south terminal. They will already have to make infrastructure improvements around and in front of the current budget "south" terminal although not nearly what they will have to do when they build a current terminal.

The big problem I see with the option that adds another mini terminal in front of the current terminal is that you aren't increasing the capacity for the airport to process passengers. You've maxed out lateral expansion after the current expansion so you'll be maxed out on security checkpoints, space for airline baggage drop-off areas, spaces for cars to pickup and drop off passengers but you'll be adding a lot of passengers with the increased daily flights of the added gates. You need to separate the total number of passengers into entirely different areas to account for that increased usage because there is no more room for an expansion of resources.

Collection of just the diagrams: http://docdro.id/Tg3L5PM. I wanted to put all of them together because so many different layouts have floated around the thread without clear context. Everything we have ever seen came from this very dated plan. I think the over projected growth only means that the south south or west terminal is the best option.

Source: http://www.austintexas.gov/page/airport-master-plan

[Speculator]

5-6 could be interesting because- based on what the current terminal expansion looks like, Austin could do something Hong Kongesque. The landside terminal wouldn't be able to handle it though so they'd need to rip down the current close in garage and expand. My opinion anyway.

[Jdawgboy]

Thanks brando for posting the overlays together. Makes it much easier to look over.

As far as I can tell most of those options show a gate count of 52, but I've read somewhere before that the port could accomodate two terminals with 55 gates each or there abouts. I take it these plans don't go that far out but if that's the case there should be enough space to expand to over 100 gates if there was ever a need to do so. Granted a scenario like that would be in the far future and we may never need that many gates. I'm just curious as to how a full build out would look like?

[hereinaustin]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

Thanks brando for posting the overlays together. Makes it much easier to look over.

As far as I can tell most of those options show a gate count of 52, but I've read somewhere before that the port could accomodate two terminals with 55 gates each or there abouts. I take it these plans don't go that far out but if that's the case there should be enough space to expand to over 100 gates if there was ever a need to do so. Granted a scenario like that would be in the far future and we may never need that many gates. I'm just curious as to how a full build out would look like?

There would probably be multiple terminals to the south parallel to the existing one.

[the Genral]

I like A-03, B-01, B-02, and B-03 purely because the two terminals next to each other would use the same entrance, less chance for a mix up if one terminal used 183 south for the expansion entrance. Vehicle parking north of 71 would take take some getting used to, but the shuttle buses from the furthest lots never let me down, this would be just a tad further. I don't like any of the concepts that expand outward from the main terminal, in fact, I forbid them. A separate terminal connected by tunnel and tram seems cool but expensive.

[austlar1]

Couldn't they do a tunnel with moving sidewalks instead of an expensive tram system. They work pretty well in some other large airports. I am thinking specifically of Phoenix, but I have not been there in a few years. Do they still use the moving sidewalks to connect terminals there?

[electricron]

Originally Posted by austlar1

Couldn't they do a tunnel with moving sidewalks instead of an expensive tram system. They work pretty well in some other large airports. I am thinking specifically of Phoenix, but I have not been there is a few years. Do they still use the moving sidewalks to connect terminals there?

Sure they could connect the two or more terminals with moving sidewalks. First. they would have to dig a trench and cover it up to put the moving sidewalks into a tunnel, which will have to have a large HVAC system.

The fastest moving sidewalk in the world was at the Paris Montparnasse—Bienvenüe Metro Station. Initially it ran at 12 km/h (7.5 mph), but too many fell and were injured getting on and off it, so they dropped its speed to 9 km/h (5.6 mph). Eventually they removed it entirely.

Most moving sidewalks run around 2.25 km/h (1.4 mph) to make it easier and safer for us to get on and off it. Let's assume the two terminals are a quarter mile apart, it'll take 11 minutes to travel between them. At a half mile, double that time to 22 minutes. The average human walks at a pace of 5 km'h, or 3.1 mph, more than twice as fast as most moving sidewalks.

Other airports, O'Hare in Chicago for an example, are removing their moving sidewalks because it is actually faster to walk. The supposed speed assist gain for people walking at average speeds in additional to the moving sidewalk speed is not normally achieved because people see or feel the faster relative speed and slow down their walking pace, or just plain ride the moving sidewalk standing in place. Ever rode an escalator at a department store? How many (percentage wise) do you recall just stood on the steps and rode it standing in place?
Oh well, humans are, have been, and will always be lazy.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by Austin1971

Probably next year.....

http://www.austintexas.gov/edims/document.cfm?id=253490

Page 23

Thank you for posting that document, Austin1971.

Does anyone know where Mikey711MN got the new renderings? It's obviously apart of some larger document/presentation. I'm sure I am not the only one in here who would like to read the entire report/update.

[GoldenBoot]

Originally Posted by Jdawgboy

...As far as I can tell most of those options show a gate count of 52, but I've read somewhere before that the port could accomodate two terminals with 55 gates each or there abouts. I take it these plans don't go that far out but if that's the case there should be enough space to expand to over 100 gates if there was ever a need to do so. Granted a scenario like that would be in the far future and we may never need that many gates. I'm just curious as to how a full build out would look like?

Look at the far upper right corner of the figures, under "Land Area Requirement" - the "Ultimate Level" is stated to be 112 gates. However, they have room for a few more depending on final layout (maybe 125-150 or so with new midfield concourses and maximum extensions to current and future terminals and concourses).

To accommodate that, the airport would need at least a fourth runway. I believe there is room where the old golf course used to be and they would have to tunnel part of FM-973 under the new runway (or at least under the runway clearance area). In fact, they could also extend the current east runway and build a new fourth runway by increasing the length of the FM-973 tunnel.

[electricron]

112 gates at ABIA would Tie it as the 14th largest airport in the USA, gates wise.
Here's a list of airports I found with their number of gates:
1) Atlanta 206 (Delta hub)
2) Chicago O'Hare 182 (American and United hubs)
3) DFW 161 (American hub)
4) Detroit 147 (Delta hub)
5) Denver 136 (United hub)
6) Washington Dulles 135 (United hub)
7) Houston Bush 130 (United hub)
8) New York Newark 129 (United hub)
9) Minneapolis 127 (Delta hub)
10) Philadelphia 126 (American hub)
11) New York JFK 125 (American, Delta, and Jet Blue hubs)
12) Miami 123 (American hub)
13) Phoenix 116 (American hub)
14) Los Angeles 112 (Alaska, American, Delta, and United hubs)

IMHO, ABIA will need to attract a major airline that will use it as a hub to ever lease that many gates.
United and American already have major hubs in Texas, which leaves Delta as the most likely airline to make ABIA their Texas hub. Does Delta fly many flights into ABIA today?

[austlar1]

Originally Posted by electricron

Sure they could connect the two or more terminals with moving sidewalks. First. they would have to dig a trench and cover it up to put the moving sidewalks into a tunnel, which will have to have a large HVAC system.

The fastest moving sidewalk in the world was at the Paris Montparnasse—Bienvenüe Metro Station. Initially it ran at 12 km/h (7.5 mph), but too many fell and were injured getting on and off it, so they dropped its speed to 9 km/h (5.6 mph). Eventually they removed it entirely.

Most moving sidewalks run around 2.25 km/h (1.4 mph) to make it easier and safer for us to get on and off it. Let's assume the two terminals are a quarter mile apart, it'll take 11 minutes to travel between them. At a half mile, double that time to 22 minutes. The average human walks at a pace of 5 km'h, or 3.1 mph, more than twice as fast as most moving sidewalks.

Other airports, O'Hare in Chicago for an example, are removing their moving sidewalks because it is actually faster to walk. The supposed speed assist gain for people walking at average speeds in additional to the moving sidewalk speed is not normally achieved because people see or feel the faster relative speed and slow down their walking pace, or just plain ride the moving sidewalk standing in place. Ever rode an escalator at a department store? How many (percentage wise) do you recall just stood on the steps and rode it standing in place?
Oh well, humans are, have been, and will always be lazy.

And then there is this puppy installed in the Toronto Pearson airport complex a few years back. It is still operational. I guess the US is just too litigious to allow this kind of system to be built, although the variable speed feature supposedly makes it safer than the high speed system developed for the Paris Metro. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U9k1K5M2Mkw