Barrel Yards | 25 floors | 1006 units | revised proposal

[rapid_business]

Originally Posted by Cambridgite

.
I find this kind of surprising. Isn't uptown Waterloo one of the more desirable areas for office space? WaterlooInvestor, do you know what the office vacancy rate is for uptown? I suspect it is a lot lower than downtown.

I dunno about that... I mean, Waterloo is all about suburban office park space. Because there is no true CBD for the region, Kitcheners has taken that role in the past and hence why 7% of the region's workforce works there. (under 2% for uptown)

The biggest problem is securing a large tenant. Sure they can fill a couple thousand sq. feet here and there with law and eng. firms, but that isn't something to build a 250k sq. building on. They need a tenant (or two combined) who will agree to lease at least 40% before they break ground.

[Duke-Of-Waterloo]

Originally Posted by onishenko

Securing tenants for the office portion is key as I have heard from several unnamed sources. So much so, that the lack of tenant looking for any significant space has put things on hold... (just waiting for someone I guess).

Any idea what the psf price is for the office lease?

That's really surprising. Waterloo is seen by so many investors as a hot and valuable market, and I am surprised no one is jumping on this opportunity to join Waterloo's Core, especially high tech companies looking for a bigger location or more room (RIM anyone?). Just look at the office concept at Waterloo Town Square: they had no problems with this, landing big names like KPMG and RBC, as well as a Planning/Architecture Firm.

This situation is really quite the opposite from the hotel, as I can recall from a Record article a while back, the response from hotel chains at the hotel concept of the development was so overwhelming... I really wonder who will end up opening shop here.

[rapid_business]

Originally Posted by Duke-Of-Waterloo

That's really surprising. Waterloo is seen by so many investors as a hot and valuable market, and I am surprised no one is jumping on this opportunity to join Waterloo's Core, especially high tech companies looking for a bigger location or more room (RIM anyone?). Just look at the office concept at Waterloo Town Square: they had no problems with this, landing big names like KPMG and RBC, as well as a Planning/Architecture Firm.

CBD office space is always more expensive psf then suburban. Traditionally this space attracts professional/service/etc companies. Lawyers, accountants, planning/architect/Eng. firms, etc. The lure of CBD office space is that it is central, and there is lots of potential for interaction amongst the offices, businesses, etc. In smaller centres like KW, you'll find this means companies who focus (even if it's a regional office of a bigger company) will be interacting with local clientele. KPMG and RBC fit into this mold. Guaranteed it will be something like this in the BarrelYards office space.

Tech companies love big floor plans, cheap space and lots of parking, hence suburban office parks. And with room to grow in the research park north of UW, they aren't pinched for space yet.

[waterloowarrior]

unfortunately IIRC, RIM plans to expand to the Northfield/University area

[WaterlooInvestor]

"The office space could include a corporate company head office, Pidgeon said."

Two corporate head offices I'd like to see:
- Maplesoft: This news was back in November, and I'll post the whole article in our small business news thread, but here's a quote - "Maplesoft is running low on space at its Kumpf Drive headquarters. The company employs 150 people, is looking to grow, Cooper said." Yes, it's a tech company, but they used to be in Uptown Waterloo before moving to Kumpf Drive. Barrel Yards is an opportunity to bring them back Uptown.
- Your Neighbourhood Credit Union: The Credit Union has been on a merger spree lately, and as a result I imagine it will require more office space going forward. They're currently at 168 King Street South, an underdeveloped site, so if they leave it will create an opportunity to redevelop that area.

A few other companies I'd like to see:
- ScotiaBank: They could use an increased presence in this area.
- Manulife/Sunlife/Economical: All have multiple sites in the region, and have been expanding over the past 10 years. BarrelYards could be great for their next expansion.

I'd gladly welcome either Marriott or Hilton as the hotel operator. It's awesome to hear this project will start this spring. Although I was kinda hoping the condo towers would go first.

City of Waterloo: Office Sq Ft - Vacancy Rate
Core - 1,083,575 - 3.9%
Suburban - 3,485,759 - 2.8%
Total - 4,569,334 - 3.1%

[kitchener-lrt]

Now that we're talking about hotels, does anyone know how busy the Delta KW is?
Sorry for going off topic.

Originally Posted by WaterlooInvestor

City of Waterloo: Office Sq Ft - Vacancy Rate
Core - 1,083,575 - 3.9%
Suburban - 3,485,759 - 2.8%
Total - 4,569,334 - 3.1%

Yeah, see. Uptown's vacancy rate is relatively low compared to downtown's, which is almost as high as 10%. So it's not a matter of no demand, so much as it's a matter of needing larger tenants.

I don't know how I feel about Sunlife or Manulife becoming main tenants in that building. It seems they have enough buildings already . I'd rather see them consolidate their office space into downtown skyscrapers and see the existing buildings sold to smaller companies. Of course, we don't need the Barrelyards office towers to be filled up exclusively with local, already-existing companies. It's a great building for local start-ups and satellite offices of non-local companies as well.

[rapid_business]

Originally Posted by Cambridgite

Of course, we don't need the Barrelyards office towers to be filled up exclusively with local, already-existing companies. It's a great building for local start-ups and satellite offices of non-local companies as well.

Which is what you may see, but a larger tenant is needed first.

[TripleQ]

Currently, class A office space in uptown waterloo is essentially full. There aren't any small office spaces available anywhere. Marsland, Allen Square, the new KPMG building are all full now. Your typical tenant here are professional firms - finance, law, accounting. I doubt you will see any large high tech firms in the Barrel Yards so it will be interesting to see who they find as an anchor tenant.

[WaterlooRegioner]

Don't look for any of the major incuranse companies in the region to expand to the barrel yards. Sunlife has a new office building in downtown that they are in possesion of, so look for them to expand there in the future. Manulife still has a bit of room to expand in the king centre, but soon they will have to expand. I've heard that 500 King(near Conestoga Mall) was built with a future office tower in mind, so it is structurally sound for such. If they continue to expand within this region which I'm sure they will, look for a tower there. If they don't go this route and instead buy office space or land, I still can't see it being in the Barrel Yards as it's not the type of development they go for. Equitable just underwent a major expansion this summer, and Economical isn't big enough profit wise to warrant being a major tenant unless they relocated their entire office. It is possible to that we will see some local tech companies being some large tenants, but nothing that will take up as large of amounts as you are suggesting(onishenko). As long as their is significant enough interest from enough small companies to fill the office, which I'm sure between start ups, existing small companies and some medium sizes local companies there will be, you will see groundbreaking begin. You might see a larger company come in from Toronto, but I just don't see it happening, if this happens they will more than likely relocate to downtown kitchener as it is already the urban office hub of the region and is beginning to turn around it's image for the good. Anyways, I really like this development, looks good. It's too far out of the main drag of uptown to warrant tons of ground level retail, but I'm glad they have incorporated some. There is tons of parking, and I'm glad so many spots are underground.

Originally Posted by WaterlooRegioner

You might see a larger company come in from Toronto, but I just don't see it happening, if this happens they will more than likely relocate to downtown kitchener as it is already the urban office hub of the region and is beginning to turn around it's image for the good.

While downtown is more of an office hub overall, don't forget, Uptown's vacancy rate is a lot lower.

Originally Posted by WaterlooRegioner

It's too far out of the main drag of uptown to warrant tons of ground level retail

I dunno...there's going to be A LOT of new residents living in that area.

[rapid_business]

For a good transition, the whole of uptown square and all that surface parking needs to be taken care of. Working on a project that encapsulates just that right now. I'll post screen shot of it later this week.

[kwoldtimer]

Originally Posted by WaterlooRegioner

Don't look for any of the major incuranse companies in the region to expand to the barrel yards. Sunlife has a new office building in downtown that they are in possesion of, so look for them to expand there in the future. Manulife still has a bit of room to expand in the king centre, but soon they will have to expand. I've heard that 500 King(near Conestoga Mall) was built with a future office tower in mind, so it is structurally sound for such. If they continue to expand within this region which I'm sure they will, look for a tower there. If they don't go this route and instead buy office space or land, I still can't see it being in the Barrel Yards as it's not the type of development they go for. Equitable just underwent a major expansion this summer, and Economical isn't big enough profit wise to warrant being a major tenant unless they relocated their entire office. It is possible to that we will see some local tech companies being some large tenants, but nothing that will take up as large of amounts as you are suggesting(onishenko). As long as their is significant enough interest from enough small companies to fill the office, which I'm sure between start ups, existing small companies and some medium sizes local companies there will be, you will see groundbreaking begin. You might see a larger company come in from Toronto, but I just don't see it happening, if this happens they will more than likely relocate to downtown kitchener as it is already the urban office hub of the region and is beginning to turn around it's image for the good. Anyways, I really like this development, looks good. It's too far out of the main drag of uptown to warrant tons of ground level retail, but I'm glad they have incorporated some. There is tons of parking, and I'm glad so many spots are underground.

It would be great if ManuLife were to expand at the King Centre by finally finishing the tower over the pod at Water and Charles. What a boost for the downtown that would be! And just walk to work in a couple of minutes from the new Centre Block condos

Originally Posted by onishenko

For a good transition, the whole of uptown square and all that surface parking needs to be taken care of. Working on a project that encapsulates just that right now. I'll post screen shot of it later this week.

Agreed, and I look forward to seeing your project.

[Flipper-Loo]

I happened to drive by the Erb W earlier the day. Can't help to notice that a advertisement board about the retail and office place for the proposed Barrel-Yard Project is opened for lease. I guess the project will be proceeded sooner than later and the residential project will be followed shortly?

[jcollins]

From what I've heard, right now it just depends on how much they get leased out.

Anyone know where they're at with that?

[Waterlooian4Life]

I have actually heard somewhere, i believe it was in the record, that the project will begin with the two apartment buildings along Father David bauer followd closely by the commercial building depending on the leasing of that building. if they have trouble leasing that space they may begin on something else instead. my guess is they won't have much trouble leasing that building though

[rapid_business]

/\ yeah, read the previous notes in this thread. It's all about securing a big tenant, which is hard to do.

[Flipper-Loo]

What I heard that was Auburn will focus on the south tower (rental) first for the residential part of the Barrel-Yard project. Most likely, they will release the plan in more details this summer.

[Brenden]

who would I talk to about retails space? do they have a website?