Tucson Development Thread

[Patrick S]

Originally Posted by AZ71

There's a SPECIAL MEETING for Rio Nuevo taking place tomorrow on Thursday, Sept 9th @ 9am if anyone is available to watch it. Looks like some important topics.

1) Further talk about more entertainment productions coming to Tucson and Rio wants them to set up their facilities in downtown. Since HBO is filming here Oct/Nov for their pilot. Appears there are two more. Probably some kind of show with the Food Network and what sounds like some other production company setting up shop downtown.

2) Some "well-known" employer wants to move their operations into One South Church so they're talking about parking spaces for them.

And then in private executive session they're talking about the ongoing lawsuit with Nor-Gen and the arena site. So doubtful they'll talk about that in open public forum.

Looks like RN voted too offer $100k over 5 years to provide 30 parking spaces for the South Church project.

Rio Nuevo Holds Special Meeting for Time Sensitive Downtown Projects

[Patrick S]

New manufacturing plant to be built by airport will employ 100 people with $225 Million impact over next decade.

Imperial Brown® to Open Manufacturing Plant in Tucson, Arizona

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by AZ71

I was wondering if Rio Nuevo eluded to anything about the Nor-Gen "Arena" property and whats going on? Their deadline was a year ago. They've been in court now for over a year. They had those lame amphitheater renderings done over a year ago. I really wish they'd divulge some information.

Ya know, I was thinking...with the boom in the entertainment industry and Rio Nuevo trying to lure more productions here...and Tucson's complete lack of any sound stage facility....I think Rio should buy/acquire that property back and build a sound stage facility there with maybe 2-3 sound stages and also incorporate a sort of "citywalk" area for the public. A place with restaurants, cinemas, museums, hotel, etc. The TCC across the street could use the empty sound stages (if not being used) for overflow. One could be used for the Gem & Mineral Show instead of setting up that lousy tent every year. They could use one as a music venue or maybe even one could be used for sporting events. I think that idea could fill a lot of needs of the city.

I made this very rough comp of what I kind of had envisioned for it.

I like that concept, it could prove very fruitful and we should really take advantage of being the hub of the film industry in Arizona. We already have an annual film festival and history.

[crzyabe]

Originally Posted by AZ71

I was wondering if Rio Nuevo eluded to anything about the Nor-Gen "Arena" property and whats going on? Their deadline was a year ago. They've been in court now for over a year. They had those lame amphitheater renderings done over a year ago. I really wish they'd divulge some information.

Ya know, I was thinking...with the boom in the entertainment industry and Rio Nuevo trying to lure more productions here...and Tucson's complete lack of any sound stage facility....I think Rio should buy/acquire that property back and build a sound stage facility there with maybe 2-3 sound stages and also incorporate a sort of "citywalk" area for the public. A place with restaurants, cinemas, museums, hotel, etc. The TCC across the street could use the empty sound stages (if not being used) for overflow. One could be used for the Gem & Mineral Show instead of setting up that lousy tent every year. They could use one as a music venue or maybe even one could be used for sporting events. I think that idea could fill a lot of needs of the city.

I made this very rough comp of what I kind of had envisioned for it.

This is the best Idea I have heard for that space. Which means there is no way it will happen

[Patrick S]

A lot of talk on here recently about Tucson's TV/movie production capabilities. In a similar vain, the U of A is looking to build a new home for our local PBS & NPR production company (Arizona Public Media - AZPM) at the Bridges on Kino/I-10. The Regents will vote on the proposal next month and the project will take 18 months to design and another 18 months to build. The university expects the project to cost $45 million and says most of the money has already been raised though they have not even released the proposal to the public yet. Per the article: "current plans for the building, which are still in the “preliminary conceptual phase,” include a large television production performance studio with theater-style collapsible seating, as well as a high-tech conference space that could be used by AZPM, the UA and the surrounding community."

UA looks to build $45 million facility for Arizona Public Media

[Patrick S]

Amazon has purchased 68 acres of land in Marana at the NE Corner of Ina & Silverbell Rd. for construction of the Silverbell Gateway Distribution Center. I'm guessing this will be similar to their distribution center on Silverlake and I-10 in Tucson.

Amazon Assembles 68 Acres in Marana for new Delivery Station

[andrewsaturn]

New tenant is expected to take over Old Tucson Studios and announced.

https://www.kgun9.com/news/local-new...-announce-soon

[andrewsaturn]

New interview with Bill Buckmaster and Fletcher McCusker of RN. Lots of information revealed here about current and future of downtown:

https://www.buckmastershow.com/2021/...wntown-tucson/


Takeaways for me:

- 75 E Broadway is confirmed to be OFF the table. Lenders PULLED OUT due to unknown future use of office space due to pandemic and remote workers.

- McCusker believes more development will be more residential than office which could be bad for office space since we have limited space downtown. Says half a dozen of companies are already looking at vacant spaces to build.

- 50% of apartment renters downtown are babyboomers, where rent is averaging $2200.

- Says Marriott hotel is committed to a property downtown?...around 8:23.

[andrewsaturn]

Do you guys think that other cities are scaling back office space projects or having issues with them being built due to the pandemic /remote working? Comments from non-Tucson threaders?

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

New interview with Bill Buckmaster and Fletcher McCusker of RN. Lots of information revealed here about current and future of downtown:

https://www.buckmastershow.com/2021/...wntown-tucson/


Takeaways for me:

- 75 E Broadway is confirmed to be OFF the table. Lenders PULLED OUT due to unknown future use of office space due to pandemic and remote workers.

- McCusker believes more development will be more residential than office which could be bad for office space since we have limited space downtown. Says half a dozen of companies are already looking at vacant spaces to build.

- 50% of apartment renters downtown are babyboomers, where rent is averaging $2200.

- Says Marriott hotel is committed to a property downtown?...around 8:23.

Should have known about 75 E Broadway. Its incapable of Tucson to ever build anything tall in our city. I'm sure they'll put in a 7-story mixed-use apartment building like the ugly Flinn at some point. How disappointing. But then again, it was an ugly building design and anyone who couldn't add a few floors to be Tucson's tallest was just lame. I hope they can find a developer to use half of that block and go higher. And mixed use residential and hotel with retail on the floor is the future. Not office space.

[combusean]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

Do you guys think that other cities are scaling back office space projects or having issues with them being built due to the pandemic /remote working? Comments from non-Tucson threaders?

Tempe isn't seeing anything cut back ... seems more popular than ever. Nothing major in Downtown Phoenix except for smaller "boutique" spaces in buildings that are having difficulty coming out of the ground like Central Station and Astra. The class A office market there is anemic to say the best.

Then there's downtown San Jose which has at least 1.6 million square feet under construction, and then 9 million more downtown in development and then another 7 million next to downtown with Google.

[AZ71]

Originally Posted by andrewsaturn

Do you guys think that other cities are scaling back office space projects or having issues with them being built due to the pandemic /remote working? Comments from non-Tucson threaders?

No, other cities are not scaling back. They're growing. I'm sure everyone has heard Phx is now building what will be Arizona's tallest skyscraper with 47 floors at 535 feet tall. It will surpass their Chase Bldg which is 40 floors and 483 ft tall. It will be a residential & hotel tower.

Tucson really has a problem and I think its with local developers. They just can't make things happen. They dont have the funds or the know-how to pull off large scale projects. 75 E Broadway was Peach Properties and it fell through. They cant even get the old Wig-O-Rama building off the ground. Allan Norville never completed what he bid for downtown. HSL built the FLINN but I dont consider that tall or amazing in any way. Seems to me the only projects of any size that get completed are from out of town investors. Like all the student housing buildings at the UA west gate. I think Rio Nuevo needs to take a good long hard look at local developers and when and if they want to put out bids on land downtown...they need to look for investors in other cities. Its really pathetic after 4 years and every indication this was on track. Even a few months ago that all of a sudden the investor flees.

https://www.abc15.com/news/business/...id7YNnPvORfVy4

And a new 16-story hotel in Tempe. Not a problem for them either: https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/1...breaks-ground/

[michael85225]

Seeing Phoenix and especially Tempe experience a huge building boom, I'm surprised Tucson isn't experiencing the same thing. Up until 5 years ago, Phoenix also had trouble bringing big projects up and often had huge projects like Cityscape scaled down quite a bit. Phoenix isn't exactly immune to this because even today our Central Station towers that were supposed to go up a while back have been delayed and have gone through different designs for almost 10 years now and that is a very important project here.

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by combusean

Tempe isn't seeing anything cut back ... seems more popular than ever. Nothing major in Downtown Phoenix except for smaller "boutique" spaces in buildings that are having difficulty coming out of the ground like Central Station and Astra. The class A office market there is anemic to say the best.

Then there's downtown San Jose which has at least 1.6 million square feet under construction, and then 9 million more downtown in development and then another 7 million next to downtown with Google.

Wow that's impressive but not surprising. Those cities are on and have been on a major upswing with enough momentum to get through post pandemic uncertainty. I think for Tucson, residential high rise is our best bet for now.

[andrewsaturn]

Originally Posted by michael85225

Seeing Phoenix and especially Tempe experience a huge building boom, I'm surprised Tucson isn't experiencing the same thing. Up until 5 years ago, Phoenix also had trouble bringing big projects up and often had huge projects like Cityscape scaled down quite a bit. Phoenix isn't exactly immune to this because even today our Central Station towers that were supposed to go up a while back have been delayed and have gone through different designs for almost 10 years now and that is a very important project here.

I'm surprised as well seeing that Tucson is considered to be one of the top cities to recover faster from the pandemic. But Phoenix metro has a robust economy with lots of money so there is always optimism for new projects. Downtown tucson had ONE high rise at least 250' in the works and it failed. I'm still optimistic though, 75 E Broadway is intended to be a high rise by the developers and Rio Nuevo. How long it will take? Another few years probably.

[andrewsaturn]

[QUOTE=AZ71;9400541]No, other cities are not scaling back. They're growing. I'm sure everyone has heard Phx is now building what will be Arizona's tallest skyscraper with 47 floors at 535 feet tall. It will surpass their Chase Bldg which is 40 floors and 483 ft tall. It will be a residential & hotel tower.

Tucson really has a problem and I think its with local developers. They just can't make things happen. They dont have the funds or the know-how to pull off large scale projects. 75 E Broadway was Peach Properties and it fell through. They cant even get the old Wig-O-Rama building off the ground. Allan Norville never completed what he bid for downtown. HSL built the FLINN but I dont consider that tall or amazing in any way. Seems to me the only projects of any size that get completed are from out of town investors. Like all the student housing buildings at the UA west gate. I think Rio Nuevo needs to take a good long hard look at local developers and when and if they want to put out bids on land downtown...they need to look for investors in other cities. Its really pathetic after 4 years and every indication this was on track. Even a few months ago that all of a sudden the investor flees.

https://www.abc15.com/news/business/...id7YNnPvORfVy4

And a new 16-story hotel in Tempe. Not a problem for them either: https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/1...breaks-ground/

It seems like residential/hotel is the way to go right now. But downtown Tucson seems like it's getting over saturated with hotel rooms, maybe I'm wrong. Fletcher did say there are half a dozen interested developers wanting to build residential units but we can't get higher than 250' which is extremely frustrating. It seems like demand is there.

[AZ71]

[QUOTE=andrewsaturn;9400802]

Originally Posted by AZ71

No, other cities are not scaling back. They're growing. I'm sure everyone has heard Phx is now building what will be Arizona's tallest skyscraper with 47 floors at 535 feet tall. It will surpass their Chase Bldg which is 40 floors and 483 ft tall. It will be a residential & hotel tower.

Tucson really has a problem and I think its with local developers. They just can't make things happen. They dont have the funds or the know-how to pull off large scale projects. 75 E Broadway was Peach Properties and it fell through. They cant even get the old Wig-O-Rama building off the ground. Allan Norville never completed what he bid for downtown. HSL built the FLINN but I dont consider that tall or amazing in any way. Seems to me the only projects of any size that get completed are from out of town investors. Like all the student housing buildings at the UA west gate. I think Rio Nuevo needs to take a good long hard look at local developers and when and if they want to put out bids on land downtown...they need to look for investors in other cities. Its really pathetic after 4 years and every indication this was on track. Even a few months ago that all of a sudden the investor flees.

https://www.abc15.com/news/business/...id7YNnPvORfVy4

And a new 16-story hotel in Tempe. Not a problem for them either: https://azbigmedia.com/real-estate/1...breaks-ground/

It seems like residential/hotel is the way to go right now. But downtown Tucson seems like it's getting over saturated with hotel rooms, maybe I'm wrong. Fletcher did say there are half a dozen interested developers wanting to build residential units but we can't get higher than 250' which is extremely frustrating. It seems like demand is there.

Like I said before...I think Tucson developers don't have the connections with big investors to make things happen. Or maybe it was the business plan or design proposal. I mean, we can all agree 75 E Broadway was a pretty ugly building. If it would have been more ground-breaking and cool looking...maybe more companies would have been interested. I'm guessing the numbers of businesses wanting to sign leases during the pre-build leasing were so low the east coast pulled out. Maybe if they built the tallest building in Tucson it would have gained instant cache and marketing desire, news stories. They failed to recognize the marketing aspect of it.

I agree...Residential, retail and hotel is the way to go. The city already lures companies away from downtown with all the tech and industrial parks they're building. The Bridges, UA Tech Center, Williams Centre, Kino Development region. Peach Properties should have looked at One South Church who is turning the bottom 10 floors into a hotel. So the entire proposal was really doomed from the start. I still think Rio Nuevo needs to look at other investors and companies that have a history of getting project done.

[combusean]

The question here was about office, and my impression is that downtown office space is just not very popular outside of big tech. In retrospect I'd say San Jose and Tempe are anomalies with abnormally high growth rates.

Chicago, New York, and LA have ~20% downtown vacancy rates and COVID definitely impacted that. So I wouldn't think that Tucson is very special without a huge tech market like most other cities.

[AZ71]

I still believe a lot of the issues are with design. Remember when Tucson had some vision just a few years ago in building structures? This was the proposed Sheraton hotel that Ward 6 City Councilman Steve Kozachik opposed. It was to be the hotel associated with the TCC. And this was 25+ stories. Gorgeous building. But what did we get instead? A 6 story Doubletree that looks like every other mixed use apartment building. I dont know what its gonna take to get Tucson to realize its potential.

[Locofresh55]

Originally Posted by AZ71

I still believe a lot of the issues are with design. Remember when Tucson had some vision just a few years ago in building structures? This was the proposed Sheraton hotel that Ward 6 City Councilman Steve Kozachik opposed. It was to be the hotel associated with the TCC. And this was 25+ stories. Gorgeous building. But what did we get instead? A 6 story Doubletree that looks like every other mixed use apartment building. I dont know what its gonna take to get Tucson to realize its potential.

This would have been such a magnificent addition to downtown! I remember thinking it had a good chance to be built until it didn't gain traction. Kozachik and pretty much the rest of the council are NIMBY pleasers, afraid of modernization when it comes to urban development. There is continued association of keeping Tucson a "small town" because we are the Old Pueblo. Such a shame that we keep this vehicle stuck in the mud, meanwhile places like Tempe and Albuquerque appear to be moving in the right direction.