Kelowna Construction

[Apey]

Originally Posted by Twindragon

That is epic! I hope they approve that development. With all this development downtown I hope a lot more shopping and amenities get added. Not just restaurants and pubs

Wow great rendering! That would be really great to have new places to shop and hang out like a pub in the area! Also, was it said the bottom part of the podium has been designed for parking?

[Apey]

Originally Posted by mountainman

A few recent updates:

Sorry looking at all that snow just makes me feel cold! But non the less looks like the project is coming along nicely!

[Starv100]

Kelowna is at the point where City Council needs to flex its muscles (or find new ones). For decades the urban blight of Harvey has been allowed to grow seemingly unchecked. Now we're beginning to see a trend of inexpensive podium style parking structures, light oversight on design aesthetic and no guts to make the hard decisions. If we're not careful, downtown will turn into its own version of Harvey. Different and higher, sure, but just as ugly. Brooklyn, Ella, One Water seem like they're on the right track. I don't know if city council had a lot to do with those designs. If they didn't, then we're at the whim of the developer, and that should scare a lot of people.

Even in a high water table environment, underground structures can be successfully done. One Water Street has a very thick (six feet?) thick raft slab with 2 underground levels, for example. Cities globally have dealt effectively with this problem. Get at least half the parking underground, and MANDATE ground level retail in a planned, mixed use process.

City councils can effectively reject bland design. It's within their power, even if that criteria is not specifically laid out. Reject rectilinear glass blocks and hold out for innovation. At this point in Kelowna's history, City Council is in a unique position to demand world-class design that small / mid-size cities globally would try to emulate. Think of the opportunity! Go for design! Hire a thoughtfully chosen, highly qualified committee of designers for oversight (meaning consulting principals from good firms, not full-time employees), charge enough development fees to pay for it and hold those developers to the highest standards. Ensure that all designs meet the needs of Kelowna citizens and not just the developers and their residents.

Finally, it's tough, but you've got to do something about the mission. The homeless need a facility, but it makes no sense for it to be in the midst of the prime development lands in the city. Give them a new facility that works, but not 2 blocks from the lake. Yeah, it's tough. People will hate me for saying it. But that's part of what you have to do if you are really looking out for your downtown and the citizens of your community.

This is your time Kelowna. Don't blow it.

[Starv100]

For evidence of what I'm saying on the design front, just look at the streetview horror of the building in the bottom picture above (Ellis Parc). Brutal.

[DKaz]

I don't know, it looks like a high rise building perched on an older brick building, kind of keeping with the aesthetics on the rest of the block.

Trying to build below the water table is tough and expensive. Just to keep it dry enough during construction is a huge pain and after the fact, they're still having issues at the Memorial parkade.

[KelownaResident]

Originally Posted by Starv100

Kelowna is at the point where City Council needs to flex its muscles (or find new ones). For decades the urban blight of Harvey has been allowed to grow seemingly unchecked. Now we're beginning to see a trend of inexpensive podium style parking structures, light oversight on design aesthetic and no guts to make the hard decisions. If we're not careful, downtown will turn into its own version of Harvey. Different and higher, sure, but just as ugly. Brooklyn, Ella, One Water seem like they're on the right track. I don't know if city council had a lot to do with those designs. If they didn't, then we're at the whim of the developer, and that should scare a lot of people.

Even in a high water table environment, underground structures can be successfully done. One Water Street has a very thick (six feet?) thick raft slab with 2 underground levels, for example. Cities globally have dealt effectively with this problem. Get at least half the parking underground, and MANDATE ground level retail in a planned, mixed use process.

City councils can effectively reject bland design. It's within their power, even if that criteria is not specifically laid out. Reject rectilinear glass blocks and hold out for innovation. At this point in Kelowna's history, City Council is in a unique position to demand world-class design that small / mid-size cities globally would try to emulate. Think of the opportunity! Go for design! Hire a thoughtfully chosen, highly qualified committee of designers for oversight (meaning consulting principals from good firms, not full-time employees), charge enough development fees to pay for it and hold those developers to the highest standards. Ensure that all designs meet the needs of Kelowna citizens and not just the developers and their residents.

Finally, it's tough, but you've got to do something about the mission. The homeless need a facility, but it makes no sense for it to be in the midst of the prime development lands in the city. Give them a new facility that works, but not 2 blocks from the lake. Yeah, it's tough. People will hate me for saying it. But that's part of what you have to do if you are really looking out for your downtown and the citizens of your community.

This is your time Kelowna. Don't blow it.

Couldn't have said it better. As a long time Kelowna resident I realize that change is inevitable. Our downtown will grow taller, however I don't think design should go unchecked. The thing I dread the most is cookie cutter square glass towers sitting on top of ugly 4 story above ground parkades. I think Brooklyn got it right, Ella is tolerable, Westcorp looks very nice most others are acceptable too. But this Leon Ave proposal looks almost as bland Vancouver cookie cutter as it can get. I do not think it is interesting at all, except for maybe the bridge that connects the towers. I would say this proposal lacks soul.

[Starv100]

Originally Posted by DKaz

I don't know, it looks like a high rise building perched on an older brick building, kind of keeping with the aesthetics on the rest of the block.

Yeah, that's kind of the point. The current aesthetics don't cut it. They are the result of lazy, ineffective planning and design management.

Originally Posted by DKaz

Trying to build below the water table is tough and expensive. Just to keep it dry enough during construction is a huge pain and after the fact, they're still having issues at the Memorial parkade.

Water table issues are costly, but manageable. Again, just because we have a high water table should not give developers a free pass to build ugly. New York in Battery Park builds several stories below the Hudson. Even after 9/11, the slurry wall, while needing maintenance, held.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Starv100

Yeah, that's kind of the point. The current aesthetics don't cut it. They are the result of lazy, ineffective planning and design management.

It's really not horrible. It suits the block.

Originally Posted by Starv100

Water table issues are costly, but manageable. Again, just because we have a high water table should not give developers a free pass to build ugly. New York in Battery Park builds several stories below the Hudson. Even after 9/11, the slurry wall, while needing maintenance, held.

In New York where land value is at a premium, they're going to go underground to get the most value of above grade square footage. Kelowna's not at that premium. Heck in Vancouver, they rarely build below the water table.

[rdave]

With the exception of the Westcorp Hotel and a few others, there is room for improvement when it comes to exhibiting Kelowna's unique identity in its skyline. The downtown already lacks a proper historic and cultural core which should also raise the standard for these new developments. There's a surge of interest and increase in proposals of Yaletown inspired condo communities. Mission Group appears to have somewhat more of a vision for the communities they build, whereas other developers from Vancouver (for example), only appear to be interested in cashing in on the current boom.

[DKaz]

What makes something like Ella and Brooklyn, both Mission Group developments, more attractive than the Leon Ave proposal? They are all towers on significant parking podiums with ground level retail. The glass might be generic in Vancouver but this would be a first in downtown Kelowna, on a street that currently has no significant architectural style. If it's the possibility of setting a precedence, I really don't think it'll be the case. Glass is expensive and Mission Group and others will resort to better value when it comes to creating attractive facades. I'm certainly not opposed to having one or two streets that makes Kelowna feel like a big city. Right now, I feel Kamloops has a more metropolitan feeling downtown than Kelowna.

Funny that Vancouver was like that with the local developers with vested interest in the region vs. foreign developers cashing in. Vancouver has become a top 5 place in North America when it comes to standard of urban design. Is it really a bad thing to have investment dollars flowing into Vancouver, especially from people who may one day want to settle in the region?

If we're looking for a more commercial looking waterfront skyline, I think that ship is quickly sailing with the Stobers ongoing investment into the Landmark District.

[Apey]

Originally Posted by Starv100

Kelowna is at the point where City Council needs to flex its muscles (or find new ones). For decades the urban blight of Harvey has been allowed to grow seemingly unchecked. Now we're beginning to see a trend of inexpensive podium style parking structures, light oversight on design aesthetic and no guts to make the hard decisions. If we're not careful, downtown will turn into its own version of Harvey. Different and higher, sure, but just as ugly. Brooklyn, Ella, One Water seem like they're on the right track. I don't know if city council had a lot to do with those designs. If they didn't, then we're at the whim of the developer, and that should scare a lot of people.

Even in a high water table environment, underground structures can be successfully done. One Water Street has a very thick (six feet?) thick raft slab with 2 underground levels, for example. Cities globally have dealt effectively with this problem. Get at least half the parking underground, and MANDATE ground level retail in a planned, mixed use process.

City councils can effectively reject bland design. It's within their power, even if that criteria is not specifically laid out. Reject rectilinear glass blocks and hold out for innovation. At this point in Kelowna's history, City Council is in a unique position to demand world-class design that small / mid-size cities globally would try to emulate. Think of the opportunity! Go for design! Hire a thoughtfully chosen, highly qualified committee of designers for oversight (meaning consulting principals from good firms, not full-time employees), charge enough development fees to pay for it and hold those developers to the highest standards. Ensure that all designs meet the needs of Kelowna citizens and not just the developers and their residents.

Finally, it's tough, but you've got to do something about the mission. The homeless need a facility, but it makes no sense for it to be in the midst of the prime development lands in the city. Give them a new facility that works, but not 2 blocks from the lake. Yeah, it's tough. People will hate me for saying it. But that's part of what you have to do if you are really looking out for your downtown and the citizens of your community.

This is your time Kelowna. Don't blow it.

Amen, well put!

[Starv100]

Originally Posted by DKaz

It's really not horrible. It suits the block.

The rendering doesn't look too bad, I'll admit. But the rendering shows a beautifully curved, windowed brick façade with retail completely lining the entire curve.

The reality appears to be a fully squared off brutal, windowless wall of brick. What happened?

[Starv100]

Originally Posted by DKaz

It's really not horrible. It suits the block.

In New York where land value is at a premium, they're going to go underground to get the most value of above grade square footage. Kelowna's not at that premium. Heck in Vancouver, they rarely build below the water table.

Again, making my point. Kelowna has the power to demand good architecture. The engineering is doable, it's a matter of will.

[KevD]

Originally Posted by Starv100

The rendering doesn't look too bad, I'll admit. But the rendering shows a beautifully curved, windowed brick façade with retail completely lining the entire curve.

The reality appears to be a fully squared off brutal, windowless wall of brick. What happened?

Not to worry. The picture you saw below that mountainman took is from the corner alley beside BNA. The rendering is on the corner of Ellis and Clement. The curve facade is still there. I’ll take a picture tomorrow for you.

[DKaz]

Originally Posted by Starv100

The rendering doesn't look too bad, I'll admit. But the rendering shows a beautifully curved, windowed brick façade with retail completely lining the entire curve.

The reality appears to be a fully squared off brutal, windowless wall of brick. What happened?

That windowless facade faces an alley towards BNA, which used to have windows facing the same alley but they've all been blocked off. The curved facade faces Clement (with One Water Street across the street) and Ellis.

[Apey]

Originally Posted by DKaz

That windowless facade faces an alley towards BNA, which used to have windows facing the same alley but they've all been blocked off. The curved facade faces Clement (with One Water Street across the street) and Ellis.

Thank you to you and the above post clarifying where the pic was taken by mountainman as I too was wondering what happened to the curve from the rendering and why they would just decide to get rid of the curve altogether! Thank you to you and KevD for the clarification of where mountainman took the photo from the alley! Happy Monday all!

[mountainman]

I think I have a recent picture of the curved facade, I'll post it later when I get home.

[mountainman]

[csbvan]

Nice! Thanks for the photo update. The curved side looks good.

[DKaz]

Thank you!

Crazy they're still pouring concrete for One Water Street in these temperatures. It looks partially tarped but keeping it heated for the concrete to cure is crazy expensive. I guess it'll be above freezing the next week.

Can you post photos of Landmark 7's progress sometime? Thanks!