California's Economic Collision Course: Immigration and Water

[spoonman]

Just to share the numbers, the Carlsbad Desalination plant will be the largest in the US, and will have capacity to provide water for up to 250,000 people. The cost of the facility is $1 Billion. While expensive and the facility massive, we certainly need more of these down here and across the state. The facility will be operational next year.

http://www.desalination.com/wdr/50/2...ruction-update

[Vlajos]

Originally Posted by spoonman

Just to share the numbers, the Carlsbad Desalination plant will be the largest in the US, and will have capacity to provide water for up to 250,000 people. The cost of the facility is $1 Billion. While expensive and the facility massive, we certainly need more of these down here and across the state. The facility will be operational next year.

http://www.desalination.com/wdr/50/2...ruction-update

What is a monthly water bill like for an average household there?

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

Is he incorrect that water will be a major factor in CA's future? I thought he brought up very valid points regarding water.

Water was always an issue in California, still is, and obviously will be in the future.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by spoonman

Just to share the numbers, the Carlsbad Desalination plant will be the largest in the US, and will have capacity to provide water for up to 250,000 people. The cost of the facility is $1 Billion. While expensive and the facility massive, we certainly need more of these down here and across the state. The facility will be operational next year.

Let's see how cost-effective this Carlsbad plant will be. It'll only provide water to about 7% of San Diego-area residents. Have environmental concerns been mitigated? Will it kill a lot of fish and other marine life?

My other problem with this Carlsbad plant is that one of the engineering firms building it is based in Israel. That really pisses me off.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

My other problem with this Carlsbad plant is that one of the engineering firms building it is based in Israel. That really pisses me off.

Yeah, can you imagine? Having Jews work on a public project?

[MolsonExport]

Every couple of years, a doomsayer article about California comes along.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Yeah, can you imagine? Having Jews work on a public project?

More like contributing to the economy of an illegally created nation-state that kills people living in territory that said nation-state is illegally occupying.

[strongbad635]

I'd be interested to see what this hack has to say about how the teabaggers have fared in Arizona. They have the same water woes as California, the same high unemployment, the same massive debt, and the same immigration situation.

All-day kindergarten was eliminated statewide in AZ, and some districts switched over to a 4-day school week to trim budgets. The legislature slashed the budget for the Department of Revenue, which required the agency to fire hundreds of state auditors and tax collectors; lawmakers boasted that these measures saved $25 million, but a top official in the department estimated that the state would miss out on $174 million in tax collections as a result. Governor Jan Brewer privatized and sold off the Capitol building, which the state now leases from a private company, costing the state millions. Meanwhile, Arizona removed more than 300,000 adults from state health coverage and terminated one health-care program for 47,000 poor children.

The tone of this article is obviously ideological. It fails to accurately diagnose the nationwide problem we're facing, which is the complete failure of supply-side economics and the lack of political will from either party to advocate an alternative.

[Leo the Dog]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

More like contributing to the economy of an illegally created nation-state that kills people living in territory that said nation-state is illegally occupying.

Hate speech doesn't belong in a discussion about the future of CA's water supply.

Mods?

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by Leo the Dog

Hate speech doesn't belong in a discussion about the future of CA's water supply.

Mods?

Isn't this an observation? Where is the hate?

Mods?

But yes, let's get back to California's water supply. No one seems to know anything about the environmental impact of desalination plants.

[spoonman]

^ Maybe you can educate us.

[mhays]

That was off-topic but hardly "hate speech." Love how the right wing has (clearly by design) co-opted that term to mean any criticism they don't like.

As for the Israeli engineering firm, maybe they brought expertise that the team needed. Also, FYI, unless they're also a/the contractor, they're not building anything.

With any big public works project, the design team will usually be a consortium of firms that represent the various disciplines. Various consortiums will compete for the work. If the project is common locally, then local firms might be enough. If not, maybe national or global specialist firms will augment the team, or even take the lead.

Local expertise tends to be valued by the agencies that hire designers and contractors. But sometimes expertise in the specific project type trumps that. There's usually a point system that factors both of those things into the team selection. If the project politically needs to have locals in charge, that will be in the points (or the owner can make the tally go that way anyway). But most of the time, localness is less important than cost, speed, predictability, and so on.

[llamaorama]

All-day kindergarten was eliminated statewide in AZ, and some districts switched over to a 4-day school week to trim budgets. The legislature slashed the budget for the Department of Revenue, which required the agency to fire hundreds of state auditors and tax collectors; lawmakers boasted that these measures saved $25 million, but a top official in the department estimated that the state would miss out on $174 million in tax collections as a result. Governor Jan Brewer privatized and sold off the Capitol building, which the state now leases from a private company, costing the state millions. Meanwhile, Arizona removed more than 300,000 adults from state health coverage and terminated one health-care program for 47,000 poor children.

And that's not even a lot of money, in the grand scheme of things.

Hold back on building a freeway overpass or two in the next decade and the state would save just as much money.

what a wreck.

[chrisvfr800i]

Isn't this an observation? Where is the hate?

If you comment was directed at any non-english speaking or non-western country it would absolutely be considered hate speech.

[chrisvfr800i]

Love how the right wing has (clearly by design) co-opted that term to mean any criticism they don't like.

That's like saying left wingers shouldn't use capitalistic terms like "Return on Investment," yet they do all the time.

The comment was so freely made because generally speaking, SSP is a safe place for liberals to vent their prejudices.

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by mhays

That was off-topic but hardly "hate speech." Love how the right wing has (clearly by design) co-opted that term to mean any criticism they don't like.

I'm pretty damn left-leaning, and I definitely consider it hate speech.

sopas ej has said some pretty outrageous things in the past, but this is WAY out there. Anyone that thinks Israel is going anywhere is beyond delusional.

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by spoonman

^ Maybe you can educate us.

No, I can't, because I haven't done the research. My comment was more a general statement, because I myself had asked in a previous post if the environmental concerns with desalination plants had been mitigated, but nobody has answered that.

Originally Posted by chrisvfr800i

If you comment was directed at any non-english speaking or non-western country it would absolutely be considered hate speech.

Suppose that one of the engineering firms building the Carlsbad plant were from China and I had said "My other problem with this Carlsbad plant is that one of the engineering firms building it is based in China. That really pisses me off," how would that have come off? Would it be assumed that I had said that because maybe I would have preferred that all firms building this plant were American? I would think conservative Americans would agree with that. And, would Crawford have assumed that I was racist against the Chinese?

Originally Posted by atlantaguy

I'm pretty damn left-leaning, and I definitely consider it hate speech.

sopas ej has said some pretty outrageous things in the past, but this is WAY out there. Anyone that thinks Israel is going anywhere is beyond delusional.

How is it "hate speech" to make a very objective comment and observation, saying that a nation-state is illegally occupying territory and is killing the people who are living in that territory? That is fact.

The delusional ones are the ones who are denying that fact. It is clearly, obviously, a problem, of the colonizer opressing the colonized. Is that a delusion?

Now, back to California's water woes. And while we're at it, how about that immigration "problem" that author of the article in the initial post was talking about?

[atlantaguy]

Originally Posted by sopas ej

How is it "hate speech" to make a very objective comment and observation, saying that a nation-state is illegally occupying territory and is killing the people who are living in that territory? That is fact.

The delusional ones are the ones who are denying that fact. It is clearly, obviously, a problem, of the colonizer opressing the colonized. Is that a delusion?

How fucking convenient that you fail to mention that Hamas kidnapping and murdering innocent teenagers is what triggered this latest insanity over there. Or how about Hamas using their own neighbors as human shields?

The large majority of Israelis want to live in piece with the Palestinians. Hamas has stated they will stop at nothing to destroy Israel.

You are the one that injected the thread with this poisonous drive-by crap. Deal with it.

[Valyrian Steel]

[Shawn]

We have a thread of Israeli-Palestinian fun, it's pages long, let's keep it there, yeah?