CHICAGO: Transit Developments

[Mr Downtown]

Originally Posted by Chi-Sky21

seems kind of silly to put it running down the middle of LSD to begin with, where are people going to board?

Same place they do now: at stops all along Sheridan Rd. and Marine Drive. The new lanes are intended to prevent the current CTA express buses from getting stuck in traffic. It's not a new Ottawa-style busway with intermediate stops.

[Chi-Sky21]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

Same place they do now: at stops all along Sheridan Rd. and Marine Drive. The new lanes are intended to prevent the current CTA express buses from getting stuck in traffic. It's not a new Ottawa-style busway with intermediate stops.

i was referencing the light rail, not the buses.

[nationramps]

It's very cool & good idea!!

[Mr Downtown]

There's not a light rail line in this scheme.

Thank heavens. As we've discussed before, this corridor is just not a good place to substitute light rail for buses. It's a corridor with riders only on one side. Putting a rail line in LSD would force people to walk substantial distances to new stations, wait in unpleasant environments, and take a slower ride downtown because they'd have to stop every half-mile. The current zone-loading series of bus routes might be more difficult for the newcomer or tourist to grok, but it serves the daily riders very well.

[Chi-Sky21]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

There's not a light rail line in this scheme.

Thank heavens. As we've discussed before, this corridor is just not a good place to substitute light rail for buses. It's a corridor with riders only on one side. Putting a rail line in LSD would force people to walk substantial distances to new stations, wait in unpleasant environments, and take a slower ride downtown because they'd have to stop every half-mile.

I was just going off what JC said, that they said something about making the lanes compatible for future light rail...i think its a stupid idea and waste of money....which means it will probably get done! I am all for the bus lanes though. THAT makes sense.

[ardecila]

^ Leaving space for light rail isn't the same as building it. Buses and trams take up the same space... A bus is roughly the same width as a light rail tram, so a 2-lane busway can be converted to a 2-track LRT line. It looks like the buses have left-side ramps at certain streets, the offramp area could be converted for a 20' station platform easily.

[Nouvellecosse]

Just to comment on the previous post, buses and trams don't necessarily require the same space. Buses aren't on a fixed guideway meaning a driver cannot keep it perfectly in as narrow a space and therefore they cannot safely operate at normal speed in as narrow a lane as a streetcar of the same width (unless perhaps it was automated). So a streetcar can operate in a lane that is the minimum width needed for a bus, but the reverse is not true. Also, it's possible to get trams that are narrower than the 2.65m buses that operate in NA. For instance, Toronto streetcars are 2.54m while some in Europe (like Leipzig Germany) are as narrow as 2.3m.

[ChiShawn]

Originally Posted by Mr Downtown

The current zone-loading series of bus routes might be more difficult for the newcomer or tourist to grok, but it serves the daily riders very well.

As a daily rider of the 135, I agree with this. The current function of the buses going down Inner LSD/Sheridan works well, the big hurdles are getting on LSD, and being stuck in traffic on LSD. This seems to address those problems. I can mostly speak to the Belmont interchange, the big thing slowing down buses there is the turn from inner LSD to the Belmont bus stop going south, and the on ramp to LSD. Making traffic get on at Aldine should alleviate some of this, but their fix for northbound buses isn't that great. The buses get their own lane up to the light, but then have to merge into the (always backed up) traffic on Belmont before resuming the bus lane on inner LSD. I would think a bus lane under the overpass on Belmont and moving the stop from on inner LSD to the new bus only southbound area would help a lot.

[VKChaz]

Originally Posted by ChiShawn

As a daily rider of the 135, I agree with this. The current function of the buses going down Inner LSD/Sheridan works well, the big hurdles are getting on LSD, and being stuck in traffic on LSD. This seems to address those problems. I can mostly speak to the Belmont interchange, the big thing slowing down buses there is the turn from inner LSD to the Belmont bus stop going south, and the on ramp to LSD. Making traffic get on at Aldine should alleviate some of this, but their fix for northbound buses isn't that great. The buses get their own lane up to the light, but then have to merge into the (always backed up) traffic on Belmont before resuming the bus lane on inner LSD. I would think a bus lane under the overpass on Belmont and moving the stop from on inner LSD to the new bus only southbound area would help a lot.

Yes, am wondering about the mechanics of buses that normally stay in the right lanes needing to navigate through traffic. And some routes are fairly short - like from Michigan to Fullerton. Bus drivers today can choose lanes based on their route (how far they will drive) and thus which exit they plan to take. How is traffic or timing impacted with buses making those moves or possibly slowing to merge to make their exit and thus slowing the buses behind? Also not clear if entrances for buses are addressed from both Michigan and Wacker.
One benefit I can see is in buses making the return trip. I believe some rush hr express buses turn around and run empty for a return to the Loop. In that case, dedicated lanes might make for more reliable service and schedules.

[VKChaz]

Originally Posted by ardecila

...

If I were king of Chicago, I'd just toll the entire highway during peak periods with modern I Pass systems like the Elgin-O'Hare. This would reduce demand, making room to set aside a bus lane in the center.
...

Of course, doing that could also result in pushing traffic onto city streets.

[emathias]

Originally Posted by VKChaz

Of course, doing that could also result in pushing traffic onto city streets.

It could. Chicago really needs to increase both grade separated and dedicated ROW transit options before charging more for expressways so that those who are able can move to transit to save time as auto transit either costs more in money or time.

Dedicated lanes on LSD, longer trains on the Red and Blue Lines, even new lines in and nearby the Central Area, possibly additional express service on the Purple Line and new express service on the Forest Park branch of the Blue Line, Cicero Ave rail service, link Brown and Blue, Lower Michigan - we're talking perhaps $15-20 billion dollars in transit infrastructure expansion built out over 15-25 years, which is a lot on top of everything else, but would do a lot to enable transit competitiveness.

[ardecila]

I have little sympathy for Lake Shore Drive users precisely because it is almost entirely single-occupant commuters and it’s paralleled by a four-track CTA line, a Metra line and an extensive series of express buses. The north LSD corridor already has a number of carrots (good transit options) in place, but no sticks to push reluctant commuters onto transit.

Also, unlike the inland expressway corridors, important services like freight trucks, contractors/tradesmen, delivery vehicles are already banned from the corridor. They can’t easily switch to transit, so usually that complicates discussions of tolling schemes... but in this case, they’re not part of the picture.

[Jim in Chicago]

Originally Posted by k1052

I'd honestly be fine if Michigan was pedestrianized with room left just for bike/bus lanes. Sidewalk crowding gets pretty bad in the warmer months that I actively avoid it and use Rush instead.

Since that worked out so well for State Street?

[Busy Bee]

^Honestly State St wasn't going to rejuvenate until the late 90's anyway along with much re-investment in urban cores around the nation and the generational shift towards city living. I have a theory that if the "mall" had just been cosmetically renovated it would have been just as successful. The 90's were probably the apex of the belief that ped malls were an unmitigated disaster and should be returned to auto traffic whenever and wherever possible. As with much of the planning community, I have serious doubts whether the ped mall was the cause or the correlation of CBD decline. Don't get me wrong I think the restoration turned out fine and I don't think it was a negative thing, I just think maybe the ped mall was killed off maybe 10 years too early... imagine the Snohetta Times Square treatment applied to State Street...

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Jim in Chicago

Since that worked out so well for State Street?

Vastly different circumstances.

[k1052]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

imagine the Snohetta Times Square treatment applied to State Street...

exactly

[Kenmore]

the 146, 147, 136, 135 really are great lines

[Busy Bee]

I'd like to see the Cta do a trial with some extra long articulated buses on the LSD express routes:


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[llamaorama]

Since I am not from your area take this idea with a grain of salt:

While looking at Google Maps I noticed that the UP North line from around Clybourn up to Evanston runs on an embankment which is wider than the current number of tracks in place. The only major obstacles are the existing Metra stations that would need to be reconstructed.

Would this be a cheap way to implement another rapid transit or light rail line? It is an interesting route because it runs through a dense part of the north side and then ends around the West Loop, where a lot of jobs are moving to. Someone along that route would gain a quick one-seat ride to the West Loop, as opposed to boarding the Brown Lin and transferring to a bus or transferring to the Green Line in the Loop.

Even just add one new track between Clybourn and Oglivie, electrify the in-city stretch for use by the FRA-compliant bilevels ME uses already, increase frequency, and add infill stations that trains from Kenosha can bypass. It would be sort of like the ME between Millenium and 67th(except you know, modern).

[Mr Downtown]

No real need for any new infrastructure. Metra could simply have UP-N run 10-minute-headway service between Ogilvie and Evanston. New S-bahn stations at Howard, Bryn Mawr, Irving Park, Armitage, and Chicago Ave. could assist regional mobility. But it still offers no easy link to any CTA line other than Brown, so does nothing much for Lincoln Yards. And the odds seem very long that Metra—which gets not one penny from city residents—would get excited about runniing a new service serving only the city. Politically (and logically) it would need to be part of a program doing a similar thing on Metra Electric South Chicago and Rock Island Suburban Branch, and maybe Milw-West (to O'Hare!) as well.