The Canadian Electric Vehicle thread

[Innsertnamehere]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Saw this article on the Ontario Chamber of Commerce twitter feed regarding Purolator's EV plans.
https://occ.ca/on-the-road-to-fleet-...on-in-ontario/

Fedex is also going big in the GM Brightdrop. Not sure how many they will deploy in Canada as that seemed like a US announcement to me, but I have seen one Fedex Brightdrop in London (a Fedex Ground truck, which means it's privately owned, not by Fedex).

Intelcom are also owner-operators so that one in Halifax is privately owned as well. Honestly I'm surprised a private courier would buy something like an E Transit. They have a pretty crappy range, less than 100km. I'd rather use a PHEV like a Chrysler minivan or something, probably cost about the same and offer the same type of cargo volume, and are probably nicer to drive.

There are lots of BrightDrops in Toronto already, I see them every time I go downtown.

BrightDrops are made in Ingersoll so I imagine we'll see lots of them in Ontario if simply because they are locally made.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Truenorth00

Any solution that is going to be mileage dependent will either require tracking or self-reporting.

Not necessarily. In provinces like NS that require bi-annual safety inspections, the mileage is recorded at the time of the inspection. One solution could be to tie the mileage record into the inspection process, either by an online website access point available to inspection stations, or simply hiring some data entry people to manually enter the data when the inspection slips are returned to the RMV. Of course this doesn't work in provinces without inspection requirements (which amazes me that every province doesn't have some sort of inspection to keep the really unsafe heaps off the roads).

I'm sure if some imagination was employed, it wouldn't be difficult to come up with some system to charge by mileage. The challenge would be to offset the costs of obtaining/maintaining that data such that there is actually some benefit to the tax collection and not just a money in/money out situation. Fuel tax has been a pretty easy way of tying cost to usage, though.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Intelcom are also owner-operators so that one in Halifax is privately owned as well. Honestly I'm surprised a private courier would buy something like an E Transit. They have a pretty crappy range, less than 100km. I'd rather use a PHEV like a Chrysler minivan or something, probably cost about the same and offer the same type of cargo volume, and are probably nicer to drive.

Yes, the owner had his name on the side of the van. The van had full Intelcom graphics on it, and some slogan like 'On the way to Net Zero' or something like that on the rear doors. Presumably Intelcom must provide some compensation to owner/operators for the public relations boost that they are attempting to gain from EV usage, thus perhaps a reasonable business case for the operator?

My point was, however, that (A) I was surprised to see an Intelcom-labeled EV (most Intelcom operators around here run standard minivans without graphics), and (B) that it appeared to be some effort by the company to get EVs into their operators' hands, either for PR or to achieve some sort of net-zero claim (and thus PR... ).

[urbandreamer]

There's been hardly any production of Brightdrops. GM claims it's a supply chain problem, but I suspect it's a low demand problem.

[Changing City]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

There's been hardly any production of Brightdrops. GM claims it's a supply chain problem, but I suspect it's a low demand problem.

They've been unable to source Ultium battery modules. Those are (just) now being built in Ingersoll. Production at Brightdrop starts up soon, with staff starting to return later this month, and once the battery production ramps up they hope to return to two full shifts. GM reported high demand for the BrightDrop Zevo 600 van, which had orders booked out to four years in advance last year.

[Djeffery]

Yes, the plant is local to me and I have several friends who work there. They just voted a few weeks ago to go back on a 2 week on 2 week off rotation so they can get everyone back to at least partial work (the other choice was the top half go back full time and the rest stay laid off). Later this year, they are going back to full time for everyone. It's been a rough couple years as they were shut down most of 2022 for the retooling, and then only up and running for the first part of 2023 until being shut down again. We were at breakfast a couple weekends ago at an Ingersoll restaurant and the server was telling us how slow it's been the last couple years. They used to be packed every Friday morning as the night shift came in for breakfast and they haven't been around for a couple years now. They had only really just come out of Covid restrictions when the plant shut down.

They started construction on the new onsite battery plant late 2022 and hopefully this will allow full production when it ramps up.

I'm not really sure the fact they are built here means we will see more of them on Ontario roads as that depends on where their customers base them. 90% of them will end up in the US, same as any other Ontario built vehicle anyway.

[Changing City]

About that 'EV sales are falling' story.
Here's data for Canada to Q3 2023 from Statistics Canada, on a chart.[Electric Autonomy Canada]





And here's the same data for the US [ICCT]

[Nouvellecosse]

The whole "tax EVs because they're heavier on average" thing is BS IMO. It's been proven that the overwhelming majority of road wear is caused by large cargo and utility vehicles like transport and dump trucks while passenger vehicles account for a tiny percent. So small percentage changes in passenger vehicle weight is basically irrelevant. But even if there was a notable increase in road wear, EVs also reduce other externalities such as air and water pollution so the improvement to both the environment and reduction in healthcare costs would more than offset the increased road maintenance. And if the issue is simply paying for road maintenance, we could just make a small increase in income taxes or implement road tolls. Since most of the road wear is caused by cargo vehicles and we all benefit from the delivery of various products even if we don't drive cars, that would be the fairest option. Honestly, Alberta's decision is really just a combination of culture war non-sense and a vested interest in the fossil fuel industry.

I posted this before maybe a year ago, but Transport Evolved did a very good deep dive on the topic which is quite helpful.

• Video Link

[urbandreamer]

I propose a $250/1000kg tax/year on all personal vehicles to compensate for lost gas tax revenues.

I hadn't visited a friend of mine who lives in a downtown mostly street parking area in a few years and noticed how difficult it is to find parking and how tightly parked everyone is now thanks to so many people driving full size pickups, large SUVS and eg a Hyundai Ioniq 5 vs an Elantra hatchback.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I propose a $250/1000kg tax/year on all personal vehicles to compensate for lost gas tax revenues.

I hadn't visited a friend of mine who lives in a downtown mostly street parking area in a few years and noticed how difficult it is to find parking and how tightly parked everyone is now thanks to so many people driving full size pickups, large SUVS and eg a Hyundai Ioniq 5 vs an Elantra hatchback.

Elantra no longer comes in a hatchback, and the Ioniq 5 is shorter than the Elantra by about 8cm. Try again!

[Nouvellecosse]

The problem of car congestion and space allotment in urban areas is mostly separate from general road construction and maintenance. That's more an issue of supply and demand management and has separate solutions. For that, a flat rate that doesn't consider where or how much one drives isn't going to be very effective. It might help some by reducing the total number of vehicles on the road, but it would also be an to drive the remaining vehicles that remain as much as possible so people feel they're getting their money's worth.

[urbandreamer]

Neighbor on the street replaced a 2015 Elantra GT (169 inches long) with an Ioniq 5 (182.5 inches.) Three new residents on the street own Cadillac Escalade, F150 and RAM 1500s. Previously, Annex dwellers tended to either not own cars or drive small Japanese hatchbacks. Just 4 years ago I could easily find parking on this one way stretch on a Friday afternoon and now zippo.

[OldDartmouthMark]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

And if the issue is simply paying for road maintenance, we could just make a small increase in income taxes or implement road tolls. Since most of the road wear is caused by cargo vehicles and we all benefit from the delivery of various products even if we don't drive cars, that would be the fairest option.

This actually seems to be the most sensible route. Use a tax system that's already in place to pay for the roads, i.e. income tax, and remove taxes from gasoline and diesel. That way it is indexed to income (so less-wealthy people who need a vehicle to work will get a break), and when all vehicles have rolled over to become EVs, no new, complex (costly to administer) taxes have to be figured out - it's already taken care of.

[SpongeG]

Apple buying Rivian? Nissan with Fisker? Tesla rivals’ woes spark speculation as EV growth slows

Steve Mollman
Sun, March 3, 2024

Tesla rivals Rivian, Lucid, and Fisker were riding high a few years ago. Amid surging investor interest, the electric-vehicle makers commanded hefty market caps and spoke of bright futures.

Things look far less promising today. The EV sector faces a growth slowdown, and even market leader Tesla has warned of challenging months ahead. For its less-established rivals, "challenging" doesn't quite cover it.

Last month, Rivian announced a disappointing quarter and outlook and said it would cut its salaried workforce by roughly 10%. Its market cap has plunged to $11 billion from a 2021 peak of $153 billion.

Gene Munster, managing partner of Deepwater Asset Management, addressed the idea this week of Apple—which recently canned its own EV project—buying Rivian, noting the low valuation. Apple “needs to break into some new market," he told CNBC. “They need to do something big, and potentially Rivian would be just the answer to that.”

Of course, that would be an unusual move for Apple. Its most expensive acquisition to date was $3 billion for headphone maker Beats Electronics in 2014. Amazon, which buys delivery vans from Rivian, is the EV maker’s largest shareholder, with about 16% of its hard-hit shares.

...

https://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple...waTwtNi7hWhJ9I

[urbandreamer]

Re: tight parking spots with the trend towards larger and heavier vehicles. Repeating what I said previously, here on Dunn Avenue between King and Queen I spy an Escalade, an F150 and a Ram 1500 causing havoc
https://imgur.com/a/95VXyco

I bought some more TSLA shares today, although I believe another dip to $100 is coming.

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I bought some more TSLA shares today, although I believe another dip to $100 is coming.

What a weird investment thesis.

[urbandreamer]

Kind of like buying a new Tesla Model 3. You spend a ton of money to save money on gas, only for the car to depreciate 40% in two years.

I pulled up the chart a few minutes ago and TSLA could double bottom in the short term around $155. However, it's P/E is too high for an automotive company and thus $80 is where it's ultimately headed this year, possibly in September when Biden looks like he's winning.

Do we like the new Dodge Charger, coming to a Brampton driveway in 12 months?
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...electric-power

[WarrenC12]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Kind of like buying a new Tesla Model 3. You spend a ton of money to save money on gas, only for the car to depreciate 40% in two years.

But you get to drive a car. Cars are not investments.

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

I pulled up the chart a few minutes ago and TSLA could double bottom in the short term around $155. However, it's P/E is too high for an automotive company and thus $80 is where it's ultimately headed this year, possibly in September when Biden looks like he's winning.

Sure, that's an investment thesis. But you bought it, when apparently you should have shorted it.

[homebucket]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Kind of like buying a new Tesla Model 3. You spend a ton of money to save money on gas, only for the car to depreciate 40% in two years.

The best value on an affordable EV right now is probably a used Model 3. Nowadays, you can find listings with 30k miles for under $25k all day long. By that point, the first owner has taken the bulk of the depreciation hit in the shortest amount of time. After that it should taper out and decline in value much more slowly. For under $25k, you could theoretically drive the car into the ground, for another 170k miles, before needing a battery replacement (YMMV). That's a cost of about $0.147/mile driven, whereas the first owner has spent $0.83/mile.

170k miles worth of gas, btw, assuming 30 mpg and $4-5/gal is going to cost $22.7k-$28.3k.

[jonny24]

Originally Posted by urbandreamer

Do we like the new Dodge Charger, coming to a Brampton driveway in 12 months?
https://www.autocar.co.uk/car-news/n...electric-power

Ooh, I like very much.

420 or 550 HP isn't bad even if it's not a V8. At least with a ICE version, V8 swaps will be a lot more possible.

More importantly, it's gorgeous. Although I'm confused by the one rendering showing 4 doors while the rest show 2 doors.