Is Midway the most single-carrier dominated major airport in the nation?

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by NikolasM

This airport is simply unsafe with its short runways and built environment around it.

the fact that there has only been 1 significant aircraft safety incident* (and it was entirely weather related) in the past 40 years at MDW makes your claim a bit dubious.


(*) during a heavy snowstorm in december, 2005 a southwest 737 slipped off the end of an icy runway and crashed through the safety barrier where it collided with several cars in the intersection of 55th/central, killing a small child and seriously injuring several others in the cars. no one aboard the plane was seriously injured.

Originally Posted by NikolasM

it should all be closed down and moved to an enlarged O'hare with a new western terminal complex.

well, that won't be happening anytime soon.

MDW is here to stay for awhile, short runways and dense built environment and all.


Chicago Midway Airport MDW by Ron Reiring, on Flickr

[BVictor1]

Originally Posted by NikolasM

The scariest landing of my life was at Midway a few months ago. The Southwest plane rocked hard left and right a split second before touchdown. I don't know how the wings didn't scrape the ground. This airport is simply unsafe with its short runways and built environment around it and it should all be closed down and moved to an enlarged O'hare with a new western terminal complex.

It's by no means 'unsafe'. Stop being a drama queen.

It's been operating for over 90 years with relatively low level of incident and more than 22 million passengers use it annually.

Next time make the choice to fly into O'Hare if you're so scared,

[MayorOfChicago]

Originally Posted by NikolasM

The scariest landing of my life was at Midway a few months ago. The Southwest plane rocked hard left and right a split second before touchdown. I don't know how the wings didn't scrape the ground. This airport is simply unsafe with its short runways and built environment around it and it should all be closed down and moved to an enlarged O'hare with a new western terminal complex.

Right....that must be why planes crash at Midway all the time...

[Innsertnamehere]

Porter uses billy bishop in Toronto almost exclusively. Only the occasional Air Canada flight otherwise. It's not as large as Midway either, I think it serves around 1.5 million passengers annually, and of course isn't in the US.

Billy Bishop went a few years without passenger service in the early 2000's until Porter started up. Porter operated for around 5 years as the exclusive passenger service to the airport, but Air Canada now has a low volume of flights. The entire airport is designed around Porter, the main terminal is porter branded and air canada has a little desk with little in services. Probably 90-95% of passengers in the airport are flying Porter.

[munchymunch]

Originally Posted by Kngkyle

Southwest is terrible though; no compelling reason to fly them over AA/DL/UA.

You clearly have never flew spirit.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

Porter uses billy bishop in Toronto almost exclusively. Only the occasional Air Canada flight otherwise. It's not as large as Midway either, I think it serves around 1.5 million passengers annually, and of course isn't in the US.

Interesting. Billy bishop appears to be a "one airline" airport as well, but i wouldn't really call it a major airport. It's radically smaller than midway by an order of magnitude (1.5M passengers vs. 22M passengers)

[F1 Tommy]

How about a little Midway and O'Hare history.... The TWA and American built hangars are still there on the north side of the field.



http://jonproctor.net/chicago-through-the-years/

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by mhays

The bigger story might be how much Delta dominates ATL given the airport's size.

Sometimes having a dominant carrier means LESS traffic.

Other times traffic booms when multiple carriers compete for market share with additional flights. That's Sea-Tac right now.

Delta seems to be competing by adding the most flights possible for its main hub, and competing vs. other cities vs. another local hub operation.

It's a zoo, I hate connecting there. It got worse when the pulled out from DWF, completely silly when they dehubbed Memphis, and it's piling on the stupid while killing Cincy via death by a thousand cuts. O&D out of Fortress Hubs like that is expensive as hell. Compare a nonstop from NYC JFK to London to Atlanta. There's just enough LCC presence to keep popular routes honest there. ORD has two airlines hubbing there plus internationals to keep it honest. It would be different if Hartsfield was a wonderous airport like Singapore or Munich, it ain't, far far from it.

[Wayward Memphian]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

Interesting. Billy bishop is a "one airline" airport as well, but i wouldn't really call it a major airport. It's radically smaller than midway by an order of magnitude (1.5M passengers vs. 22M passengers)

The airport is restricted to turboprops. Porter wants to use Bombardier's new CS100 there. They offer more seating, better comfort and the plane's performance specs are impressive.

The NIMBY's will not have it, even though the new jets are quieter than the props. The rules were written long ago and the technology has made it obsolete. The NIMBYs want the airport gone so it can be redeveloped but Porter isn't giving up that niche market with it's closeness to downtown Toronto. So, they'll refuse to let the better plane service out of spite. Trudeau could ignore them and allow Porter to fly the new jets in but he pandered to them during the election. I's much like the mess in London with Boris and the anti Heathrow expansion NIMBYs though in London, another runway is desperately needed. Air Canada is against it strictly for competition reasons and those should be ignored.

Listen to it land and take off here
https://youtu.be/ywWi11YHB7w

[electricron]

Originally Posted by NikolasM

The scariest landing of my life was at Midway a few months ago. The Southwest plane rocked hard left and right a split second before touchdown. I don't know how the wings didn't scrape the ground. This airport is simply unsafe with its short runways and built environment around it and it should all be closed down and moved to an enlarged O'hare with a new western terminal complex.

How short are Midway's runways?
6,522 and 6,445 feet.
How short are O'Hare's runways?
13,000, 9,685, 8,075, and 7,500 feet.
What is the published minimum runway length for a Boeing 737?
That depends upon the model.
737-800 requires:
Take Off distance 2,100 meters, or 6890 feet
Landing distance 1,634 meters, or 6360 feet
737-700 requires
Take Off distance 1,774 meters, or 5,820 feet
Landing distance 1,418 meters, or 4,652 feet
737-600 requires
Take Off distance 1,616 meters, or 5,301 feet
Landing distance 1,342 meters, or 4,403 feet
737-500 requires
Take Off distance 1,500 meters, or 4,921 feet
Landing distance 1,350 meters, or 4,429 feet

A 737-800 is the only model where the runways at Midway are too short.

[F1 Tommy]

http://www.airportsites.net/MasterPl...Rwy-Length.pdf

[Innsertnamehere]

Looked it up, YTZ is actually 2.3 million annual passengers, but yes, far, far smaller than Midway.

There was talk of an expansion to allow jet flights and bring annual passengers up to the 4-5 million range, but it got shot down by the feds. Its essentially at full capacity at 2.5 million annual passengers. Its a very unique airport, located right downtown, but that also restricts growth. The better Chicago comparison would have been Meigs Field before it was ripped up.

[Tom In Chicago]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

well, i found some stats to confirm this.

HOU - 92.54% of domestic passengers flew Southwest

I was going to point out HOU. . . I've almost never seen any other airline there outside of Southwest. . . incidentally I flew MDW-HOU last year and saw a United plane at Midway and one in Houston on my return. . . not sure why they were there, but they were. . .

. . .

[Buckeye Native 001]

Takeoff out of Midway is pretty mild compared to the noise abatement takeoff out of Orange County/John Wayne

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

Takeoff out of Midway is pretty mild compared to the noise abatement takeoff out of Orange County/John Wayne

What's a noise abatement take-off? Do they have to throttle down or something?

[Buckeye Native 001]

If planes take off to the west over Newport Beach, the pilot fires up the engines to full throttle with the brakes on, then barrel down the runway at full power.

Once airborne, the plane elevated at a 20 to 25 degree steeper angle than a normal takeoff until the plane reaches an altitude between 800 to 1000 feet. Once it reaches that altitude (usually right before flying over Newport Beach), the plane levels off and the pilot cuts back power, so that it feels like you're gliding out over the Pacific Ocean.

Once out over the ocean, the pilot fires back up the engines to normal levels and continues climbing to cruise altitude. For people who hate flying (like me and I've flown out of SNA numerous times when I lived in Orange County), this procedure is terrifying (at least SWA and some America West/US Airways pilots informed passengers before takeoff), others love it.

Last time I flew out of there back to Phoenix, when the pilots cut the power a Southwest flight attendant came on the intercom and whispered "Shhh! We gotta be quiet, we're flying over rich people!"

[nomarandlee]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the fact that there has only been 1 significant aircraft safety incident* (and it was entirely weather related) in the past 40 years at MDW makes your claim a bit dubious.

(*) during a heavy snowstorm in december, 2005 a southwest 737 slipped off the end of an icy runway and crashed through the safety barrier where it collided with several cars in the intersection of 55th/central, killing a small child and seriously injuring several others in the cars. no one aboard the plane was seriously injured.

well, that won't be happening anytime soon.

MDW is here to stay for awhile, short runways and dense built environment and all.


Chicago Midway Airport MDW by Ron Reiring, on Flickr

I wonder how unrealistic it would be to grow Midway. It has to be pushing its boundries right now. But if you say buried Cicero Ave and 55th and pushed the runway northwest a thousand feet it could provide some additional clearance.

I also see enough room on the north side of the airfield for a terminal that could seemingly mirror image the present east side terminal. Maybe connect a short underground airside people mover between the two terminals.

Bump Midway up to 40-45 million per year. I wonder if it has ever been seriously considered or the political fight/enviromental impact is just seen as a non-starter. Or maybe there are other potential operational logistics road bumbs I'm not seeing.

[Steely Dan]

^ considering that cicero to/from the stevenson is already a monumental clusterfuck most of the time (and not much can be done to alleviate it), i don't think midway is in line for any significant expansion anytime soon. at a certain point, the carrying capacity of the city's street grid simply maxes out. trying to turn midway into a 45M passenger airport doesn't sound wise to me.


if chicago's airport system needs more capacity, it'd be much better to add it at o'hare.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Buckeye Native 001

If planes take off to the west over Newport Beach, the pilot fires up the engines to full throttle with the brakes on, then barrel down the runway at full power.

Once airborne, the plane elevated at a 20 to 25 degree steeper angle than a normal takeoff until the plane reaches an altitude between 800 to 1000 feet. Once it reaches that altitude (usually right before flying over Newport Beach), the plane levels off and the pilot cuts back power, so that it feels like you're gliding out over the Pacific Ocean.

Once out over the ocean, the pilot fires back up the engines to normal levels and continues climbing to cruise altitude. For people who hate flying (like me and I've flown out of SNA numerous times when I lived in Orange County), this procedure is terrifying (at least SWA and some America West/US Airways pilots informed passengers before takeoff), others love it.

Last time I flew out of there back to Phoenix, when the pilots cut the power a Southwest flight attendant came on the intercom and whispered "Shhh! We gotta be quiet, we're flying over rich people!"

very odd. them rich people have some serious clout.

[Buckeye Native 001]

Totally. But then, I've been at Newport and Balboa piers and observed private jets flying out over Newport Beach at full power without doing noise abatement, so apparently those rules don't apply (or they pay hefty FAA fines for not following protocol)

I don't think the noise abatement procedures apply when planes take off to the east over Tustin. I had friends who lived on the flight path in Tustin/Santa Ana and during Santa Ana Wind conditions, jets were flying out at full power.