Honolulu: Transportation info and development

[zilfondel]

Oh wow, they are making progress. From skimming the anti-rail posts above, I figured it had been cancelled already!

[Nouvellecosse]

Mayor: FTA withholds $250M for rail project until .5% tax extension approved by City Council

Why would people be riled up over this? Just hurry up and pass the tax extension and continue on with the plan.

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Nouvellecosse

Why would people be riled up over this? Just hurry up and pass the tax extension and continue on with the plan.

Can the council do so? Wasn't the tax initiated via a referendum? Wouldn't extending it also require a referendum? I'm not so sure.

[Nouvellecosse]

Oh I didn't realize it was a referendum...

[maru2501]

wow. cool project

[OhioGuy]

Originally Posted by electricron

Can the council do so? Wasn't the tax initiated via a referendum? Wouldn't extending it also require a referendum? I'm not so sure.

The state legislature had to approve letting the city council have the option to extend the surcharge. It looks like they already did that last spring. So all that's left is for the city council to actually vote to extend the surcharge.

Feds want assurance that city will extend rail surcharge

The head of the Federal Transit Administration said the agency would withhold the release of $250 million in grant money for the city's $6.57 billion rail project unless it gets assurances that the City Council will pass an extension of the 0.5 percent surcharge on the general excise tax.

That's according to Mayor Kirk Caldwell, who met for about an hour this week with FTA Acting Administrator Therese McMillan.

McMillan told Caldwell she is pleased that the Legislature gave its OK to the surcharge extension last spring, but is "frustrated" by the slow pace of the Council's deliberations and by the suggestion that the surcharge money going to rail should be capped, Caldwell said.

The mayor said McMillan indicated the FTA would be open only to pushing back the completion date of the project as sought by HART.

[Maksima]

First train cars for rail transit system arrive on Oahu

• Video Link

Posted: Mar 24, 2016 5:15 PM HST
Updated: Mar 24, 2016 5:30 PM HST
By Catherine Cruz

Honolulu’s first rail cars have arrived, but they have not been unwrapped.

We got a look at them just hours after they arrived at Honolulu Harbor’s Pier 1.

“(It’s) a pretty historic day. We have twins,” said Honolulu Mayor Kirk Caldwell.

Rail officials say they’re leaving the two cars as is and are not taking the shrink wrap off just yet, because the cars still need to be transported and need to be protected.

“Because the cars are still wrapped, how do you know you’re actually getting what you paid for?” KHON2 asked.

“We have folks in our facility in Pittsburg, Calif., who were there, making sure the final assembly took place as we wanted. I’ve actually personally visited the factory a couple times,” said Dan Grabauskas, executive director of the Honolulu Authority for Rapid Transportation.

Copyright KHON2. All rights reserved.

Read article here:http://khon2.com/2016/03/24/first-tr...rrive-on-oahu/

[PolyArch]

New rail cars closer 4-7-2016 by cre8ive na8ive, on Flickr
First only two cars came then two more on the next shipment. Here are all four connected. Great they were still outside for my shot but the wraps were still on for protection. Love to see them without the wraps.

[ChargerCarl]

Over $200 million/km for above ground light rail?

Jesus...

[electricron]

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

Over $200 million/km for above ground light rail?

Autonomous above ground light rail. Autonomous doesn't come cheap.

Of course, what they spend extra during construction should be made good later when they don't have to pay a driver a salary, medical insurance, retirement pension, family leave, vacations, coffee breaks, and holidays to actually run the train. A computer that doesn't need all the above on the train will be doing that! All the experts suggest a computer operator will eventually be cheaper.

[ChargerCarl]

Im glad it's driverless, but I don't think that explains the cost. Other countries build subways cheaper than this.

[mrnyc]

Originally Posted by PolyArch

New rail cars closer 4-7-2016 by cre8ive na8ive, on Flickr
First only two cars came then two more on the next shipment. Here are all four connected. Great they were still outside for my shot but the wraps were still on for protection. Love to see them without the wraps.

whoa - actually thats very cool to see them fresh and wrapped. what an unusual sight that is. but yeah we want to see them unwrapped and in action too for sure. anyway good catch!

[electricron]

Originally Posted by ChargerCarl

Im glad it's driverless, but I don't think that explains the cost. Other countries build subways cheaper than this.

Other countries and cities aren't located in the middle of the Pacific Ocean thousands of miles away from their suppliers. Everything in Hawaii is expensive.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by electricron

Other countries and cities aren't located in the middle of the Pacific Ocean thousands of miles away from their suppliers. Everything in Hawaii is expensive.

Yes, it's very extremely expensive. You pay a pizzas and etc. That won't be necessary.

[ChargerCarl]

Originally Posted by electricron

Other countries and cities aren't located in the middle of the Pacific Ocean thousands of miles away from their suppliers. Everything in Hawaii is expensive.

I seriously doubt thats a major cost driver.

[rapid_business]

Of course it is. Concrete costs alone are 80% more in Hawaii than the mainland. Labour costs are significantly higher too. Same with fuel costs. Every input is more expensive. Now is that the only reason, likely not. But I don't have a cost breakdown to see what is included, and where comparsions on a track and station costs equal out to.

A comparable project, the Canada Line in Vancouver, costs were $110M/KM. It's not apples to apples, but it would be one to look at. Autonomous. Elevated (and some portion in underground, and some at grade). Light Rail Gauge.

[ChargerCarl]

rapid business, Im not surprised Canada has high construction costs too. Anglo countries typically do. Consider again that European countries build subways for about $250m/km, and in Asia they do it even cheaper.

In the US LA is the gold standard when it comes to efficiency, and we still build them at $500m/km.

There's something seriously wrong with American transit costs.

[hammersklavier]

Originally Posted by rapid_business

Of course it is. Concrete costs alone are 80% more in Hawaii than the mainland. Labour costs are significantly higher too. Same with fuel costs. Every input is more expensive. Now is that the only reason, likely not. But I don't have a cost breakdown to see what is included, and where comparsions on a track and station costs equal out to.

A comparable project, the Canada Line in Vancouver, costs were $110M/KM. It's not apples to apples, but it would be one to look at. Autonomous. Elevated (and some portion in underground, and some at grade). Light Rail Gauge.

Quite close, actually. What you're describing sounds like the Canada Line is built to essentially the same spec as Hawaii's light rail (autonomous and elevated). The problem here is it's still in Canada, which means that we don't quite have a mainland example to contrast it against ... important when we want to try and figure out whether the cost inflation is driven purely by the fact that everything's more expensive in Hawaii or whether the transit-industrial complex is at work here, too.

OTOH the Canada Line can also serve as a useful international benchmark. That is, we compare Hawaiian inflation (i.e. the greater materials procurement costs in Hawaii) with the per-km cost difference between the two lines, where any significant differences in the cost difference, given how similar the specs are, is likely driven by American labor practice -- which Pedestrian Observations' Alon Levy and Market Urbanism's Steve Smith have long argued is the real driver of inflated American construction costs relative to the Anglosphere (much less the rest of the world!).

[floor23]

Some reasons costs are escalating:

LAND: Cost of acquiring the land for the Rails ROW on Oahu are incredibly high. Oahu has some of the highest land costs in not just the US but the world. HART hasn't even acquired all the land for the ROW anyway, and nobody is certain how much the land costs for the urban center will be. I've heard to just acquire the parcels in town (between airport and Ala Moana) could cost anywhere from $400m to $800m. Rumor has it that HART might try to move the Ala Moana station from being next to Ala Moana Center on Kona St. and move it a block away and have it end on Piikoi. Kona St. is owned by General Growth Properties(who own the mall) and they expect to make the City & County to pay top dollar for Kona St. This is probably better for HART in the long term as HART would have to tear down structures to expand beyond Kona St. for when they expand to University of Hawaii-Manoa/Waikiki. By moving the station back, they can then expand the guideway down Kapiolani instead of going down Kona St. which is much more expensive. Of course this change in plans all depends on FTA approval.

ELECTRICITY: Nobody is certain how HART is going to power the rail system. The rail itself will be the biggest user of electricity on Oahu (even more than the military bases). HART will most likely have to build a separate power plant just to power the whole rail. Funny thing is, Rail was advertised as being environmentally friendly but it will most likely be powered from LNG or crude oil. Building a new power plant will probably cost another $300 to $500m. One other thing to consider is that HART will have to move power lines underground and other utility lines which adds in several hundred million in costs as well.

SHIPPING:Everything must be shipped to Hawaii and this increases costs heavily.

LABOR/Construction costs: Hawaii construction workers are some of the highest paid in the US. The construction unions are probably the most powerful group out here and are a big reason why Democrats have run Hawaii for 50+ years. Also Hawaii construction costs are the highest in the nation as well. It's not just the rail that is being affected, residential and commercial construction projects are also incredibly expensive to build due to high costs. In fact, Hawaii is in the middle of a labor shortage for construction workers which also pushes costs up. The labor costs are a testament to how much the economy is booming out here.

EXPERTISE: In Hawaii, the State or Federal government has usually built all the big infrastructure projects out here. The City & County of Honolulu lacks any experience whatsoever in building a project of this magnitude. The State didn't originally want to touch this project because legislators from other islands didn't want their tax dollars to pay for a project on Honolulu. While unlikely, It wouldn't surprise me if a decade from now the State ends up taking over this project from the county. It should be noted that County governments (there is only state and counties, no local governments) in Hawaii have very little power as The State government controls the majority of government functions.

Watching this rail project happen has been very interesting. I've been saving all the paper articles and other documentation on it as in the future it might be an interesting enough story that I could write a book on it. It's becoming Hawaii's version of the Big Dig

I think this project when finished will end up costing $10b to $12b. While I support public transit and this rail project, I wonder if building a BRT system would have been better. The current bus system in Honolulu is great and you can get anywhere on island. The alternative BRT plan would have serviced more people and neighborhoods on Oahu and would have cost much less. A lot of people that support the rail are just hoping people ride it, otherwise its going to cost a ton to subsidize.

[a very long weekend]

^ don't forget "buy american" rules, which apply on all projects getting federal funding, at a very significant increase in costs.