SAN FRANCISCO BAY AREA: Transit/Transportation News

[EMArg]

Though it's not actually news, this is how the tramways and cablecars look today in gorgeous San Francisco (recorded almost 1 month ago):


• Video Link

[fflint]

We call them cable cars and streetcars. 'Trams' are a European term that no one uses here. From where are you?

[CharlesCO]

I remember some of my older relatives from the midwest would occasionally use the word "tram," and I think Disney may call their rail systems "trams" in some official capacity. Though you're right, it's hardly used on this side of the Atlantic anymore. The ambiguous "light rail" seems to have replaced it in many cities.

[fflint]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

I remember some of my older relatives from the midwest would occasionally use the word "tram," and I think Disney may call their rail systems "trams" in some official capacity. Though you're right, it's hardly used on this side of the Atlantic anymore. The ambiguous "light rail" seems to have replaced it in many cities.

We have cable cars, streetcars, and light rail. We also have heavy rail and commuter rail.

[Busy Bee]

Denver Tramway was the exception to the rule.

[phoenixboi08]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

I remember some of my older relatives from the midwest would occasionally use the word "tram," and I think Disney may call their rail systems "trams" in some official capacity. Though you're right, it's hardly used on this side of the Atlantic anymore. The ambiguous "light rail" seems to have replaced it in many cities.

That's interesting. I always assumed tram was interchangeable with streetcar/trolly. Light-rail always felt like something in between a Tram and traditional [Heavy-Rail] Subway. The terms have always felt unclear to me, to be honest. It would probably be nice to clarify, since it can lead to people not really understanding what they're getting (e.g. people thinking of SF's street cars when a light rail proposal comes forward - I think we saw this reaction in LA, no?).

[EMArg]

Originally Posted by fflint

We call them cable cars and streetcars. 'Trams' are a European term that no one uses here. From where are you?

From Argentina, which follows the european traditional names (at least in most cases). We also call them "troles" here. That also makes me remember the brazilian "bondinhos", which are very similar

[CharlesCO]

Originally Posted by phoenixboi08

That's interesting. I always assumed tram was interchangeable with streetcar/trolly. Light-rail always felt like something in between a Tram and traditional [Heavy-Rail] Subway. The terms have always felt unclear to me, to be honest. It would probably be nice to clarify, since it can lead to people not really understanding what they're getting (e.g. people thinking of SF's street cars when a light rail proposal comes forward - I think we saw this reaction in LA, no?).

I would say that streetcar and light rail are the two most common terms here, though it depends. It is very ambiguous, especially considering that streetcars and light rail often use very similar technology. Important things to consider are train consist sizes, right of way, station vs. stop design, frequency, and distance, though it still can be murky. Most systems that are considered light rail in North American cities, such as Denver's, San Diego's, or Calgary's, will share right of way and provide service to stops within close distance of each other in downtown areas, effectively making them streetcars at the core, though nobody would ever call those systems streetcars. Meanwhile, San Francisco's Muni Metro takes a combination of everything — underground subway in the urban core, light rail-style above ground stations on the new T Third line, and streetcar-style service almost everywhere else.

Here's a good article that explores this a little better:
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/03/...ifference.html

[electricron]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

I would say that streetcar and light rail are the two most common terms here, though it depends. It is very ambiguous, especially considering that streetcars and light rail often use very similar technology. Important things to consider are train consist sizes, right of way, station vs. stop design, frequency, and distance, though it still can be murky.
Here's a good article that explores this a little better:
http://www.humantransit.org/2010/03/...ifference.html

I believe consist sizes is the major differential. Light rail usually involves multiple vehicles in a train - whereas streetcars usually involves single vehicles.
But there are exceptions to this simple rule of thumb.

[fflint]

A sneak peek at the next generation of Muni Metro cars:



According to KGO 7, the MTA board of directors will vote to buy 261 Siemens light rail vehicles. They'll be built at Siemens' manufacturing plant in Sacramento, and they'll first run on the Central Subway in late 2016.

[CharlesCO]

Wow, they made that decision and will have the cars delivered in the time the BART board of directors quarreled over two hand poles. Those cars look nice though, whichever one they choose.

[Perklol]

Very nice models but I think they should choose a better color. That brown-orange is a boring color.

Perhaps a bright yellow would help it, visually speaking?

[electricron]

Originally Posted by Eveningsong

Very nice models but I think they should choose a better color. That brown-orange is a boring color.

Perhaps a bright yellow would help it, visually speaking?

Having Giants' colors on the light rail vehicle in front of the stadium they play in isn't boring. That's being a loyal fan and showing team and city spirit.

[fflint]

Muni's livery is not now, nor will it be, brown-orange. Rather, it is silver, dark grey and a very bright red.


Image: SFMTA

[Nouvellecosse]

Looks mighty fine!

[fflint]

Another rendering from the SFMTA and some additional information, via streetsblog:



The purchase of Muni’s next metro train fleet took a major step forward today as the the SFMTA Board of Directors unanimously approved a manufacturing contract with Siemens.

Muni officials lauded the design of the new trains as far superior to the current, abysmally breakdown prone fleet of light-rail vehicles, which were built by AnsaldoBreda. The fleet of 260 new trains will be manufactured by the German company Siemens at its Sacramento factory, and will roll out over several years starting at the end of 2016.
....
The SFMTA Board authorized the agency to spend up $1,192,651,577 to purchase up to 260 Siemens trains, to be rolled out in phases by 2028. The first batch of 24 trains is expected to be phased in from the end of 2016 to 2018, and thus ready in time for the completion of the Central Subway in 2019.

Haley called Siemens an “industry leader,” and said the company has a proven record, with about 1,300 of its trains used by North American transit systems. He said that Siemens has a “strong and consistent track record of meeting delivery schedules.”
....
The new models will come with several variations, and will be able to couple with Breda trains — which will continue to run in conjunction with Siemens trains for years, until the current fleet is completely retired. Haley noted that the train cars will also be able to couple and de-couple easily, and allow Muni to run trains as long as four cars long.

[CharlesCO]

The new models will come with several variations, and will be able to couple with Breda trains — which will continue to run in conjunction with Siemens trains for years, until the current fleet is completely retired. Haley noted that the train cars will also be able to couple and de-couple easily, and allow Muni to run trains as long as four cars long.

I like the sound of that! (As long as residents don't complain again, that is.)

[M II A II R II K]

http://sf.streetsblog.org/2014/07/15...-metro-trains/

[tech12]

So there are going to be three different car designs? What's the point of that? It seems like it'll just raise maintenance time/costs as different car styles will have different parts.

[fflint]

Siemens provided three different options. The public will get some input, but the agency is most likely going to keep the same livery colors.