Phoenix Development News (3)

[Jjs5056]

How is the Roosevelt streetscape coming along? This phase will include the design for the 3rd/4th split triangle, correct? That should be interesting.

Realizing the rest of this should have been posted in the General thread. I'm sorry!

Originally Posted by nickw252

That building has already been razed. I usually don't like tearing down old buildings either but this wasn't a major loss. Although it had mid-century modern architecture, it was not particularly architecturally significant and it did not have much of a street presence. It was basically a two floor brick rectangle building with a shallow pitched roof that did not face the street- rather, it had a closed-off and fenced-in courtyard on the south side.

Yes, I just hadn't seen it was gone until now. I know it isn't worth hysteria - but, combined with the apartment demo'd to its north, two attractive and occupied buildings were demolished for a project that has been forthcoming since 2007. A lot of the buildings in that area don't face the street - there are a lot that are sets of 2 and face an interior courtyard. They are still attractive buildings that are occupied in an area that has a lot of blight and vacancies.

I also am trying to imagine the footprint of this building and wondering if it is really necessary to have demo'd all that it did. At some point, I question the return for the area when the end product is delivering a fairly small amount of units in a very small building. With neither of those being HP, I know it wouldn't be worth the hassle, but I can't imagine they couldn't have been used for the project: the northern apartments as a retro option for renters, and 834 as the leasing office, which has become a large dead space in a lot of these newer buildings.

No fire, but seeing the vacant footprint of a long-stalled project grow is a little scary due to Hoover's comment.

[nickw252]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

How is the Roosevelt streetscape coming along? This phase will include the design for the 3rd/4th split triangle, correct? That should be interesting.

Realizing the rest of this should have been posted in the General thread. I'm sorry!



Yes, I just hadn't seen it was gone until now. I know it isn't worth hysteria - but, combined with the apartment demo'd to its north, two attractive and occupied buildings were demolished for a project that has been forthcoming since 2007. A lot of the buildings in that area don't face the street - there are a lot that are sets of 2 and face an interior courtyard. They are still attractive buildings that are occupied in an area that has a lot of blight and vacancies.

I also am trying to imagine the footprint of this building and wondering if it is really necessary to have demo'd all that it did. At some point, I question the return for the area when the end product is delivering a fairly small amount of units in a very small building. With neither of those being HP, I know it wouldn't be worth the hassle, but I can't imagine they couldn't have been used for the project: the northern apartments as a retro option for renters, and 834 as the leasing office, which has become a large dead space in a lot of these newer buildings.

No fire, but seeing the vacant footprint of a long-stalled project grow is a little scary due to Hoover's comment.

I agree- the biggest concern is tearing down occupied buildings for projects that don't pan out leaving more vacant lots...

[azsunsurfer]

http://www.landmarkhomesusa.com/#communities

Not sure where or what the far right project is?

[HooverDam]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

http://www.landmarkhomesusa.com/#communities

Not sure where or what the far right project is?

huh. The map makes it looks like that's where PRD 845 (or whatever its called) is at.

[azsunsurfer]

http://www.azcentral.com/story/news/...ject/13090381/

[Jjs5056]

The lot west of PRD845 is vacant; I'm assuming that's where it will go? It's listed as about the same size as the current development -which is five 3-story buildings. If the acreage looks the same, that's what we can probably expect to see.

Not that there isn't potential west of 7th, especially on Roosevelt, but really wish infill was focused between the 7's and McDowell - Lincoln.

[RichTempe]

There's construction fencing up at the old Hotel Lexington on Central & Portland St. Not sure when it went up or if it means something will be happening soon. Would be nice if they finally start the proposed renovations.

[Jjs5056]

Originally Posted by RichTempe

There's construction fencing up at the old Hotel Lexington on Central & Portland St. Not sure when it went up or if it means something will be happening soon. Would be nice if they finally start the proposed renovations.

Looks like good news indeed. A permit was issued on 7/08 to begin interior demolition for "Portland Place Hotel LLC" - looks like we have name for the new hotel, and seeing fencing going up is reassuring, since a similar permit expired earlier this year. With Habitat Metro a part of the Portland on the Park team, I am sure there was extra motivation/pressure to remove this eyesore and add another nearby attraction. Permit #: DEM 14014516 for reference.

Anyone ever figure out what the sales office is that was built on Garfield/5th? It had a facade example and everything the last time I was able to check out the area (not sure if it was the facade of what they were selling or the facade of the sales office?).

[nickw252]

The success of new restaurants at the Cityscape development coupled with Arizona State University’s growing student footprint could bring more bars and eateries to downtown Phoenix.

One of those could be Buffalo Wild Wings. The Minneapolis-based sports bar chain could end up landing in central or downtown Phoenix with a new location.

The Collier Center has a number of restaurant spaces open after the closure of a Paradise Bakery outlet, a pizza restaurant and the old Stoudemire’s space.

RED Development, which owns Cityscape, also handles leasing at Collier Center.

Restaurants — such as the the Tilted Kilt Pub & Eatery and Sam Fox’s Arrogant Butcher — have performed well at CItyscape and RED also has bolstered retail and restaurant leasing at the Town & Country shopping center at 20th Street and Camelback Road.

It sounds like Buffalo Wild Wings is looking at a downtown or central spot.

“At this point we don’t have much info to share about a new location in Phoenix. It might be better to reach back out in a couple months and we might be further along in the site selection/construction process,” said Regional Marketing Manager Jon Gotreau.

The chain has nine Valley locations including at the Westgate Entertainment District, Scottsdale, Metrocenter and Tempe. But the sports bar/restaurant doesn’t have locations in central or downtown Phoenix.

http://m.bizjournals.com/phoenix/mor...n-phoenix.html

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by nickw252

http://m.bizjournals.com/phoenix/mor...n-phoenix.html

Just read that as well. I think the Stoudemire's spot would be perfect.

[Jackdavis4]

Stoudemires would be AWESOME, keep it down by the stadiums. Next get some good teams down there, haha. Jk the suns are coming around.

[Jjs5056]

I'd prefer it go in the Warehouse District than into Colliers. There are already a few pregame options north of Jackson and while BWW wouldn't necessarily die on non-game days, I'd rather Colliers complement CityScape through shopping and for any new restaurants in the area to be more of the 'everyday kind' - aka more Arrogant Butcher and Hard Rock. I think an Aveda Salon and an Art Gallery have opened in Colliers, which seem like a good start, although any retail is going to struggle in a 2-story inward-facing project supported by only 1 office building at the opposite end.

I suppose for spaces like Stoudemire's that are equipped for restaurant use, it would be wasteful to convert, so I agree that if anywhere, that's the best space.

It just seems like CityScape has put the number of restaurants close to capacity, whereas the Warehouse District desperately needs another anchor besides Cooperstown and a well-known chain might be the perfect start for more independent establishments to then open near an already-known area.

Spaces like:
- Jackson's on 3rd/Jackson (if currently vacant- I can't tell if it is permanently reopened again or not)
- Legends Bar/Coach Willie's at UPRR/3rd
- Brickhouse at 1st Ave/Jackson

If in the business of renovation (they mentioned 'construction'):
- Renovate and expand the St James Hotel
- Renovate and occupy a portion of the multiple retail buildings adjacent to Dudley Ventures
- Renovate the former Foundry on 1st St/UPRR; might be too large of a space, though?

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by azsunsurfer

You know you can click on the numbers at the bottom of the page and scroll back for several months to get caught up.....

I decided it was time to check in and catch up so when I caught your comment I really took it to heart. While I'm still plowing my way through I just couldn't wait any longer to thank you for your awesome advice.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by Jjs5056

Yes, the apartments will front 2nd, with parking in the back, accessed from the alley aka a true urban design.
http://downtowndevil.com/wp-content/...row_design.jpg

In all honesty, this is a bunch of noise over a very small project. Yea, it's shitty that developers can't get financing for anything but senior living, but that's reality, and given how small the project is, I'd rather get some souls downtown with the bonus of giving some artists a place to live and work, and extend the arts vibe north. This developer did a fantastic job with Encore in Tempe and given the crap built downtown recently, I'm sure this would be a nice addition; I support The Row, but would be super happy if it were 7-8 stories and 70-75% market rate. Oh well.

These seniors know they are moving to an urban environment (and, they want to! Encore is fully leased, I think) and whose to say 55 year olds can't contribute to our downtown? These folks will have kids, possibly grandkids... Downtown can't be reserved for artists. Adding a bit to the family demographic isn't such a bad thing.

Anyway, the most important thing is that the Knipe House will be restored. Their idea for it was definitely the best, and I think a brewery will do awesome at that location. Excited to see the finished development! Too much empty land in that area.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by combusean

As an aside, i think it's crazy how much affordable housing that's gone up lately downtown that's taken prime lots 4th Ave and McKinley, 2nd Ave and McKinley) that could have gone to market rate units. I occasionally think of moving back to Phoenix myself (if my job existed out there) but these missteps sour me on that concept.

The issue shouldn't be so much the affordable housing as the lack of demand for market rate apartments, apparently. At least in Denver (which dearly needs more) affordable apartments are nothing like yesteryear's subsidized housing. They're well built, attractive and built to sustainable standards which includes being very energy efficient. They also do include many market rate units.

What's interesting is that Millennials are rewriting the rules and have been flocking to urban centers. They prefer to rent. They prefer mobility (transit) and convenience. It's happening in Birmingham Alabama and in Orlando not traditionally urban centric cities. What's sad is that it's not yet been evident in Phoenix. Partly it's Tempe's time to shine.

Partly it's the slow recovery of the economy in Phoenix. Novare Group out of Atlanta has been building their Skyhouse apartments all over the south and rent their units for $2.00+ per sq ft. for example. I wouldn't know what kind of rent projections can be made for Phoenix?

There's got to be some demand though in Phoenix and maybe Alliance's project will do well.

[TakeFive]

Originally Posted by poconoboy61

Regardless of if our parks are lacking or not does not overshadow the fact that this will never be a park city. No one wants to go to a park with the sun beating down on them in 100+ degree weather with sparse tree cover...

The park in Phoenix that is closest to our Central Park, IMO, is Encanto Park and that is nearly empty almost every time I pass it. Is it because of its lack of features? No. It's because this is Phoenix and we do not go to parks for the reasons I mentioned above.

Indeed. Encanto should be Central Phoenix/downtown's precious jewel. It certainly was that over 35 years ago. For me a park is best if it's a fun place, a kid and family place.

I also enjoyed visiting Encanto 3 years ago with a couple of teens but it wasn't as awesome. It wasn't the demographics that bothered me; rather it suffered if anything from overuse. It not only needed some TLC but it needed updating and upgrading. It needs major reinvestment and it's a shame to see that jewel not treated better.

Saying that Phoenix is not a park city b/c it's too hot in summer is like saying Denver is not a park city cuz it gets too cold in winter. That's silly. Lack of enough shade trees though is legitimate.

[poconoboy61]

Originally Posted by TakeFive

Indeed. Encanto should be Central Phoenix/downtown's precious jewel. It certainly was that over 35 years ago. For me a park is best if it's a fun place, a kid and family place.

I also enjoyed visiting Encanto 3 years ago with a couple of teens but it wasn't as awesome. It wasn't the demographics that bothered me; rather it suffered if anything from overuse. It not only needed some TLC but it needed updating and upgrading. It needs major reinvestment and it's a shame to see that jewel not treated better.

Saying that Phoenix is not a park city b/c it's too hot in summer is like saying Denver is not a park city cuz it gets too cold in winter. That's silly. Lack of enough shade trees though is legitimate.

Anyone familiar with Denver's winters would know that they are not at all to the magnitude of Phoenix's summers in terms of extremes. Most winter days in Denver are between 40-60 degrees during the day. Coupled with the level of sunshine, I would argue that Denver has one of the most favorable climates in this country for park use.

Most people are not going to a park when it is over 100 degrees, like it is here day after day after day from June-September. That's just fact. The most prominent group of people you see in parks here are the homeless and people with substance abuse problems.

There is no need to update Encanto. It's not like people are avoiding it because it's outdated. People avoid it because they don't want to get heat stroke while being pestered by the homeless.

[CrestedSaguaro]

Originally Posted by poconoboy61

Anyone familiar with Denver's winters would know that they are not at all to the magnitude of Phoenix's summers in terms of extremes. Most winter days in Denver are between 40-60 degrees during the day. Coupled with the level of sunshine, I would argue that Denver has one of the most favorable climates in this country for park use.

Most people are not going to a park when it is over 100 degrees, like it is here day after day after day from June-September. That's just fact. The most prominent group of people you see in parks here are the homeless and people with substance abuse problems.

There is no need to update Encanto. It's not like people are avoiding it because it's outdated. People avoid it because they don't want to get heat stroke while being pestered by the homeless.

I have to disagree here. Maybe not so much Denver, but as a born and raised Midwesterner for 40 years, I feel I can safely say that Midwest Winters are WAY more extreme than Phoenix summers. Try going to a park in 0 to 10 degree temps with a -10 wind-chill and most will understand this. You can argue using layers of clothing, but you can only put on so many layers until it's just impractical to not even go outside. Even then, your hands and feet will go numb as you can only put so much protection on those unless you want to go walking around in ski boots daily looking like a Yeti.

As for Phoenix summers, I go to the parks nearly daily (living literally on the edge of Papago Park) and about 45 minutes of hiking Phoenix heat at 110+ is much more tolerable than even just 20 minutes of blizzard-like conditions. Can you have a family picnic outing during 110 degrees? Probably not. But you can't picnic in snowy areas either. Winters there are just as long as summers here. You're going to lose out on nearly 5 months per year no matter which way you go. Phoenix summers are an outdated argument IMHO. There are many more days here than just Summer.

Also, I am confused with some of the comments about Encanto being empty. I tried going there quite a few times during Spring to check it out (unless we're just talking summer-only attendence numbers here), but I couldn't find any open parking spots at all and decided to go elsewhere

[westbev93]

Yeah, the Encanto Park comments threw me too. I live really close by, and I go to Encanto Park quite a bit. I would never describe it as under-utilized or empty. It's probably the most used park I've been to around the Valley. And unlike many parks that seem to mostly get used as event venues (like Tempe Beach Park), Encanto Park actually gets used like a traditional park (family outings, parties, picnics, basketball games, etc). Even during our hot summers, I see many people having birthday parties outside under the trees at Encanto.

Pestered by homeless? I guess there are homeless people at Encanto just like any other park. But I wouldn't describe it as a homeless park by any means (that distinction fits Hance Park fairly well). It would make sense that homeless people would come to Encanto Park as it is a public space they can occupy, and with the trees, grass, and irrigated areas, it is pretty cool relatively speaking.

Sparse tree cover? Quite a few trees fell over during the microburst in the area back around Labor Day 2008, but there are still a lot of trees in Encanto Park. And they are older trees that were irrigated (read: they are bigger trees than you would typically find).

All of this begs my question---are you sure you are talking Encanto Park and not Hance?

[shawneriksmith]

Originally Posted by poconoboy61

Anyone familiar with Denver's winters would know that they are not at all to the magnitude of Phoenix's summers in terms of extremes. Most winter days in Denver are between 40-60 degrees during the day. Coupled with the level of sunshine, I would argue that Denver has one of the most favorable climates in this country for park use.

Most people are not going to a park when it is over 100 degrees, like it is here day after day after day from June-September. That's just fact. The most prominent group of people you see in parks here are the homeless and people with substance abuse problems.

There is no need to update Encanto. It's not like people are avoiding it because it's outdated. People avoid it because they don't want to get heat stroke while being pestered by the homeless.

When I look up Denver weather on accuweather.com, I see that the average highs in December, January, February are 42-46 degrees and the average lows are 20 degrees or below. So, I'm not sure where you say that Denver winters are 40-60 degrees - not saying that they can't have some warmer days above the average, but the average temp is closer to 40 than 60. And, I would say that that is pretty cold when that is the high for the day, so it would be much colder in the mornings and evenings.

I used to live in the midwest and the east and you just can't go outside at any point of the day during the winters there. It's just cold all of the time - at least in Phoenix, the summers are bearable in the mornings and nights. I wouldn't say it was park weather but at least you could go for a jog or walk your dog outside in the mornings or nights. So, at least for me, give me Phoenix summers before I have to deal with winters in most of the rest of the country.