Dense Areas Outside CBDs in American Cities / Dense Suburbs

[cjreisen]

Hello All-

I'm sure a thread for this already may exist. But I'm curious what cities have highly dense residential areas outside their cores, and what suburbs might be highly dense? I'm thinking European Style development with 5-10 story buildings that span multiple blocks. I am not aware where this may exist, but an obvious and appropriate example would be the Wharf opening in the next month in Washington DC, Fenway District in Boston, as well as pretty much any large suburb of DC in Virginia. For example the Mosaic District in Fairfax.

Can anyone please post pictures of other places that fit this criteria? I believe dense suburbs are the future of American cities and would love to see examples of existing examples.

[RC14]

Bellevue, WA outside of Seattle.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by cjreisen

Hello All-

I'm sure a thread for this already may exist. But I'm curious what cities have highly dense residential areas outside their cores, and what suburbs might be highly dense? I'm thinking European Style development with 5-10 story buildings that span multiple blocks. I am not aware where this may exist, but an obvious and appropriate example would be the Wharf opening in the next month in Washington DC, Fenway District in Boston, as well as pretty much any large suburb of DC in Virginia. For example the Mosaic District in Fairfax.

Can anyone please post pictures of other places that fit this criteria? I believe dense suburbs are the future of American cities and would love to see examples of existing examples.

Washington/Baltimore, Philadelphia, Boston and central Miami tend to have the densest core suburbs. New York to the north and over into New Jersey as well.

[mhays]

Originally Posted by RC14

Bellevue, WA outside of Seattle.

Seattle suburbs aren't very dense overall, but there are a few dozen "nodes" outside the city limits that have density, or that are at least starting to grow in dense fashion. Bellevue is the largest example.

[cardinalstl]

Clayton, MO is right outside the city limits of St. Louis. It is a dense neighborhood with high rise apartments, condos, and office buildings.

Clayton MO

These street views won't include several high rise projects recently built or currently under construction.

[dave8721]

Miami has a bunch if we are simply defining density as "densely populated". Many of these are dense but suburban in nature. "Towers on the Golf Course".
Miami coastal suburban town densities (pop/square mile):
North Bay Village: 22,330
Sunny Isles Beach: 21,867
Bay Harbor Islands: 14,938
Aventura: 14,235
Miami Beach: 11,968 (many neighborhoods in Miami Beach are quite a bit higher)
Key Biscayne: 10,415
Surfside: 10,377

South Beach would fit as a more Euro-style low rise highly dense "suburb". A jumble of mostly 2-4 or 5 story apartments and condos:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/toetalljim/164180547



Here is Bay Harbor, Sunny Isles and Aventura (15+ miles from the CBD)
https://www.flickr.com/photos/86813892@N00/33157497342


Aerial of the Sunny Isles, North Bay Village, Aventura..etc
https://www.flickr.com/photos/lrosa/36147235304

[summersm343]

For Philadelphia, you can definitely get some nice density outside of the "Core"... maybe not consistent 10 story buildings, but definitely 3-4-5 story urban buildings.

Manayunk
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0253...7i13312!8i6656

Chestnut Hill
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0757...7i13312!8i6656

Ardmore
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0083...7i13312!8i6656

Bryn Mawr
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0221...7i13312!8i6656

Pheonixville
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1338...7i13312!8i6656

Norristown
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.1204...7i13312!8i6656

Jenkintown
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.0956...7i13312!8i6656

Doylestown
https://www.google.com/maps/@40.3108...7i13312!8i6656

Media
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9180...7i13312!8i6656

West Chester
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9604...7i13312!8i6656

Upper Darby
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9615...7i13312!8i6656

Camden
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9470...7i13312!8i6656

Collingswood
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.9161...7i13312!8i6656

Haddonfield
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.8970...7i13312!8i6656

Wilmington
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.7454...7i13312!8i6656

Newark
https://www.google.com/maps/@39.6834...7i13312!8i6656

Even places in the MSA like Glenside, Ambler, Hatboro, Newtown, New Hope, Bristol, Kennett Square, Conshohocken, etc. etc. offer nice walkability. Places like King of Prussia, Cherry Hill, Voorhees, Glassboro, Bala Cynwyd, etc. etc. are being more urban in a "New Urban" form.

In the CSA, you add more places like Reading, West Reading, Kutztown, Vineland, Atlantic City, Ocean City, Wildwood, Stone Harbor, Cape May, etc. etc.

[JManc]

^ Wilmington, DE is it's own city even if apart of Philly metro but I would agree that area has some great dense areas right outside of the Center City area. Manayunk is a great area. Loads of character around there.

[CypressClinton]

In New York Metro, Hudson County NJ is very dense with some of the densest populated cities in the country located between the Hudson and Meadowlands. Union City for example is as of the 2010 Census the most densely populated city in the United States, with a density of 51,810.1 per square mile.

[summersm343]

Originally Posted by JManc

^ Wilmington, DE is it's own city even if apart of Philly metro but I would agree that area has some great dense areas right outside of the Center City area. Manayunk is a great area. Loads of character around there.

Sure, but if Wilmington is it's own city, so is Bellevue, Jersey City, etc.

[softee]

If you're talking about extensive tower block residential neighbourhoods a significant distance away from the downtown or urban core, aside from NYC, Washington DC, Chicago (along the lakefront) and Miami, there aren't too many other American cities that have a lot of that kind of development in their outer neighbourhoods or surrounding suburbs.

Canadian cities do have a lot of such areas, though -- particularly the Greater Toronto-Hamilton area (thousands of suburban mid and hi-rise towers blocks!) Ottawa, London ON, Kitchener-Waterloo, Greater Vancouver, Halifax, Winnipeg and even cities such as Kingston, Belleville, Sudbury and many other small Ontario cities in the 40-200,000 thousand range will have an area or two where you'll find bunches of hi-rise apartment towers clustered along major suburban arterial roads or beside shopping malls.

[Pedestrian]

What's the difference between a "dense suburb" and a "satellite city"? Until recently, LA and Phoenix were more like clusters of satellites without a core than like the older cities with a central downtown. Both are now in process of growing a downtown.

[Hamilton]

Not sure if they count as 'suburbs' as they are just half a mile across the Hudson River from Manhattan, but Hoboken, West New York, Guttenberg, Union City, etc in Hudson County, NJ are actually the densest municipalities in America (denser than NYC overall) despite not being within the city limits of NYC proper.

These cities are mostly made up of 4-6 story midrises (brownstones and tenements) built between 1860 and 1930 which might not look as dense as more modern, taller tower blocks. However, they are denser because they don't have parking garages taking up tons of space and are located on narrow streets with no side setbacks or front yards. This sort of "European style" development is outlawed in most of the country nowadays by zoning, especially in suburban jurisdictions, so it's probably not the future of American cities.

Hoboken (40,000 ppl/sq mi):


West New York (49,000 ppl/sq mi):

[mhays]

I wouldn't consider those suburbs.

The "core city" in a functional sense (not administrative) is about what's on the ground as a continuous built-up area, or the main built up area. Hoboken and Jersey City are part of the core.

For Seattle I'd wonder whether a big chunk of the city of Seattle belongs inside or outside that line.

[Hamilton]

If you're looking for more contemporary examples, there are many new mid-rise and high-rise neighborhoods going up in Jersey City, just south of Hoboken. (Again, not sure if this fits within the definition of 'suburbs' or 'outside of the core' that OP is thinking of, but just in case, I'll mention it).

For instance, Liberty Harbor North:

[dc_denizen]

Stamford, CT:



White Plains, NY

[Hamilton]

Originally Posted by mhays

I wouldn't consider those suburbs.

The "core city" in a functional sense (not administrative) is about what's on the ground as a continuous built-up area, or the main built up area. Hoboken and Jersey City are part of the core.

I agree, but try telling that to a New Yorker, especially a Manhattanite.

I spent some time out in San Diego, and people kept telling me that Hillcrest was the hip urban neighborhood whenever I complained that there were no vibrant urban areas in SD. When I got out to Hillcrest and I was confused that it looked like a typical inner-ring NYC 'suburb' like Nutley or Bloomfield.

Anyway, under this stricter definition of 'core' and 'suburb', I really can't imagine any American suburbs at all where zoning allows real 'European style' development. Where tall buildings are allowed in these municipalities (for instance New Rochelle or White Plains), the buildings tend to have the same or more space dedicated to the parking podium as to apartments, and the buildings tend to be on monster-sized lots due to minimum lot requirements.

Transit villages in Seattle might be a good exception? Or developments within peripheral areas of Portland?

[JManc]

Originally Posted by summersm343

Sure, but if Wilmington is it's own city, so is Bellevue, Jersey City, etc.

Technically they're all their own cities but Bellevue started life out as a postwar suburb of Seattle while JC and Wilmington are 2 and 3 centuries old respectively with their own identities and urban centers.

[M II A II R II K]

Guess there's new suburbs and old towns that have been absorbed into becoming suburbs.

[Hamilton]

Originally Posted by JManc

Technically they're all their own cities but Bellevue started life out as a postwar suburb of Seattle while JC and Wilmington are 2 and 3 centuries old respectively with their own identities and urban centers.

Jersey City is complicated in this respect, in that even though its history stretches back to Dutch settlement in 1660, it's been a magnet for NYC commuters since Col. John Stevens and Robert Fulton started running commuter ferries in New York Harbor in the 1810s. Brooklyn Heights, JC, and Hoboken were the world's first "steamboat suburbs" really. The opening of the Hudson & Manhattan tubes in 1908 was a really huge deal, with the mayor throwing a day-long party, which highlights how important the Manhattan commute was even a century ago.

JC really doesn't have as much of a distinct identity from NYC as JC natives like to believe. What little distinct identity it had really disappeared with the Colgate factory and the other factories and docks and railyards closed. Newark, Paterson, and other NJ cities are a lot more distinct.