HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForumSkyscraper Posters
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation

Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #1441  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2015, 8:22 PM
CharlesCO's Avatar
CharlesCO CharlesCO is offline
Aspiring Amateur
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lyon, France / Lafayette, CA / Denver, CO
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by simms3_redux View Post
Yea I get that...but standing room only for all those commuters going to the East Bay or down near Milbrae! Phew I guess there will be enough people getting off at a certain point that people can start moving to seats. So yea, this makes sense.

Can't wait for the new MUNI trains as well. Also a system that is just crushed.
If I remember correctly, it's a loss of about ~8 seats per car, which isn't that much. Plus, the overall fleet will have more total cars than it has now, and more cars = more trains = more capacity = less packed trains.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1442  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2015, 9:04 PM
Gordo's Avatar
Gordo Gordo is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Seattle, WA/San Francisco, CA/Jackson Hole, WY
Posts: 3,813
Plus, BART is not even close to standing room only at Millbrae or at the ends of the East Bay sections. So even if someone is going that full length, they'll be able to get seats for at least some of the journey (and possibly most of the actual time spent in the car).

The biggest need (by far) for BART right now is solving the massive capacity issues in the SF and inner East Bay stations, which the third door should help with.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1443  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2015, 11:03 PM
electricron's Avatar
electricron electricron is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Granbury, Texas
Posts: 2,422
Lightbulb

Quote:
Originally Posted by pdxstreetcar View Post
For SMART... any word on the types of concessions they will have at the snack bar? Alcoholic drinks? Just chips and soda? Packages sandwiches? Postcards and playing cards? That's really cool, as far as I know almost unheard of now in the US for a non-Amtrak train to have on-board concessions.

So I see there is funding and a plan to extend the line as planned south to Larkspur but why isn't it directly connecting to the Larkspur ferry terminal, clearly the logical place for it?!? Nuts to have to take a shuttle bus or walk a good distance between the two. Please tell me there is a long term plan to build a flyover to bring the train directly to the ferryboat dock like a logical intermodal connection would be anywhere outside the US or like any in the US built before WWII. I hear the claim that most riders are within Marin & Sonoma but with a good connection to SF via the ferry I have to believe it would get a lot commuters to SF and day trippers from SF if it was a seamless painless connection.
Concessions will probably be limited to wine and open during off peak trains aimed at tourists (Saturday's)

SMART doesn't own the ferry's parking lot and I don't think the ferry wants to lose any parking spaces. I believe the ferry is immune to eminent domain, therefore the train will not be able to steal ferry property. The planned train station isn't going to be farther away than the furthest parking space. To get any closer to the ferry terminal, SMART would probably have to build a far more expensive aerial station to appease the ferry, and I would like to point out they can barely afford the at grade station planned.

If walking three blocks is too far after riding a train, trains will never be the answer to replace cars.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1444  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2015, 12:33 AM
CharlesCO's Avatar
CharlesCO CharlesCO is offline
Aspiring Amateur
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Lyon, France / Lafayette, CA / Denver, CO
Posts: 274
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gordo View Post
Plus, BART is not even close to standing room only at Millbrae or at the ends of the East Bay sections. So even if someone is going that full length, they'll be able to get seats for at least some of the journey (and possibly most of the actual time spent in the car).

The biggest need (by far) for BART right now is solving the massive capacity issues in the SF and inner East Bay stations, which the third door should help with.
Ehh, it's still pretty bad. Commute peak direction in the morning is standing room only from at least Lafayette, and it's the same in the afternoon from Powell until at least Lafayette. I think a huge chunk of people get on at Concord or Walnut Creek (especially the Danville/San Ramon/etc. types who drive up and park) and then it only gets worse from there. Evening trains are also packed, though that's mostly because of the Richmond line's earlier ending time. I can't speak for how packed the other lines are. But the third door will still be nothing but a good thing in getting peak trains to depart on time as well (I'm looking at you, Embarcadero at 5pm on a weekday).

Good thing I almost always take BART in the reverse peak direction!
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1445  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2015, 7:22 AM
viewguysf's Avatar
viewguysf viewguysf is online now
Twin Peaks, San Francisco
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 1,108
Central Subway Construction

Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1446  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2015, 3:06 PM
M II A II R II K's Avatar
M II A II R II K M II A II R II K is online now
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: Toronto
Posts: 35,771
How Can We Move More People Between SF and the East Bay?

Read More: https://medium.com/@spur_urbanist/ho...y-f9fb3eb200c9

Quote:
.....

The new San Francisco Bay Area Core Capacity Transit Study, which kicks off this year, will identify short-, medium- and long-term improvements in the transbay travel corridor.

- The study — which involves the Metropolitan Transportation Commission, the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency, the San Francisco County Transportation Agency, BART, AC Transit, the Water Emergency Transportation Agency and Caltrain — will paint a clear picture of commuter travel patterns and determine how best to address the needs of Bay Area commuters.

While the study progresses, here are some actions SPUR recommends in the meantime:

• Maximize capacity and efficiency within the current BART system.

• Add additional railcars, allowing l0-car trains whenever needed. BART’s stated goal is to ultimately obtain enough funding to increase the fleet to 1,081 train cars.

• Introduce railcars with extra doors to reduce loading and offloading time. BART’s new train cars, the first of which will begin service in Fall 2016, will have three sets of doors, as opposed to two. So far, 669 of these “Fleet of the Future” cars have been purchased.

• The current train control system is over 40 years old. Installing a new train control system would allow for more closely spaced trains, meaning more frequency on transbay BART lines.

• Adopt the BART Metro concept, which increases the amount of service within the core of the BART system, by creating new train storage and turnbacks facilities in San Francisco and the East Bay.

• Add bus lanes on the Bay Bridge and on highway approaches.

• Use price changes or incentives to shift riders to other transportation modes or other times.

• Expand casual carpool.

• Create a transbay or regional transit pass.

• Grow transbay bus service, especially when the Transbay Transit Center opens.

• Increase ferry frequencies.

• Build the Bay Bridge Bike and Pedestrian Path.

.....
__________________
ASDFGHJK
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1447  
Old Posted Jul 11, 2015, 4:05 AM
northbay's Avatar
northbay northbay is offline
Another day in Paradise
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Cotati - The Hub of Sonoma County
Posts: 1,777
Some pictures of the new Presidio Parkway (US 101) set to open in San Francisco on Monday. The freeway is closed through the weekend to allow for the traffic shift.




Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"A construction crew works inside the southbound Main Post tunnel of the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015. "


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"The Palace of Fine Arts comes into view when emerging from the southbound Main Post tunnel of the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"A construction crew works below street level for the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"Guard rails await installation at the northbound Battery tunnel of the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"Engineers stand above the northbound Battery tunnel of the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"Construction work on the Presidio Parkway project nears completion in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"Construction workers inspect the ceiling of the norhtbound Battery tunnel of the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"Members of the news media tour the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"Final work is being completed on the northbound Main Post tunnel of the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"The southbound roadbed near the Main Post tunnel waits to be completed on the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"Signs to assist in emergency evacuations are installed in the Presidio Parkway tunnels in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"Construction work nears completion on the on-ramp to northbound 101 from Girard Road for the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
Traffic zig-zags through the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015.


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"Traffic zig-zags through the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."


Paul Chinn, The Chronicle
"The Main Post tunnel is completed at the Presidio Parkway project in San Francisco, Calif. on Tuesday, July 7, 2015."

For all photos and article: http://www.sfgate.com/bayarea/articl...#photo-8283864
__________________
"I firmly believe, from what I have seen, that this is the chosen spot of all this Earth as far as Nature is concerned." - Luther Burbank on Sonoma County.

Pictures of Santa Rosa, So. Co.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1448  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2015, 12:53 AM
Nexis4Jersey's Avatar
Nexis4Jersey Nexis4Jersey is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: In the Pascack Valley
Posts: 2,445
Caltrain - San Jose to San Francisco King St - Morning Express

Video Link
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1449  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2015, 4:17 AM
Nouvellecosse's Avatar
Nouvellecosse Nouvellecosse is online now
As seen on SSC ;)
 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Nova Scotia
Posts: 3,311
Quote:
Originally Posted by M II A II R II K View Post
How Can We Move More People Between SF and the East Bay?
Quote:
.....

The new San Francisco Bay Area Core Capacity Transit Study, which kicks off this year, will identify short-, medium- and long-term improvements in the transbay travel corridor.

- The study — which involves the Metropolitan Transportation Commission, the San Francisco Municipal Transportation Agency, the San Francisco County Transportation Agency, BART, AC Transit, the Water Emergency Transportation Agency and Caltrain — will paint a clear picture of commuter travel patterns and determine how best to address the needs of Bay Area commuters.

While the study progresses, here are some actions SPUR recommends in the meantime:

• Maximize capacity and efficiency within the current BART system.

• Add additional railcars, allowing l0-car trains whenever needed. BART’s stated goal is to ultimately obtain enough funding to increase the fleet to 1,081 train cars.

• Introduce railcars with extra doors to reduce loading and offloading time. BART’s new train cars, the first of which will begin service in Fall 2016, will have three sets of doors, as opposed to two. So far, 669 of these “Fleet of the Future” cars have been purchased.

The current train control system is over 40 years old. Installing a new train control system would allow for more closely spaced trains, meaning more frequency on transbay BART lines.

• Adopt the BART Metro concept, which increases the amount of service within the core of the BART system, by creating new train storage and turnbacks facilities in San Francisco and the East Bay.

• Add bus lanes on the Bay Bridge and on highway approaches.

• Use price changes or incentives to shift riders to other transportation modes or other times.

• Expand casual carpool.

• Create a transbay or regional transit pass.

• Grow transbay bus service, especially when the Transbay Transit Center opens.

• Increase ferry frequencies.

• Build the Bay Bridge Bike and Pedestrian Path.

.....
Read More: https://medium.com/@spur_urbanist/ho...y-f9fb3eb200c9
It seems to me that upgrading the train control system is going to make the biggest difference. Right now according to the schedules there's a maximum of 20 tphpd through the trunk section which is a 3 minute headway, while modern control systems can easily allow 30 or more trains per hour, meaning headways of only 2 minutes. That's an increase of a full 50%! I doubt even enacting all the non-BART steps combined including more ferry, bus service and increased carpooling could handle as many riders as ten 10 car BART trains.
__________________
Coming into a central city should be like coming into a house - you take off your boots before you go inside and you take off your car before you go downtown.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1450  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2015, 3:47 PM
rawocd rawocd is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2013
Location: San Mateo
Posts: 22
I think the most promising of all these(in terms of benefit to a widest group) is actually the transbay bus lanes project.

BART is great at what it does, but AC Transits transbay bus system is shockingly underutilized. Give it bus lanes on the bridge, and then all the places in the core without walk able service now have quality transbay service.

As a comparison for the capacity it can offer, NYC's XBL in the Lincoln tunnel carries about 60,000 people each morning. That's about the same capacity of 30 more 10 car BART trains - or 10 more each hour for 3 hours.

As for BART, as far as I know, BART can operate at 24tph, but the limiting factor is Embarcadero and Montgomery dwell times. 3 door per car trains could help that, as could the plan to turn both stations into Spanish Solution platforming, but that project is estimated at a billion.

Last edited by rawocd; Jul 24, 2015 at 10:39 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1451  
Old Posted Jul 24, 2015, 8:35 PM
fflint's Avatar
fflint fflint is offline
Triptastic Gen X Snoozer
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Location: San Francisco
Posts: 20,977
One of the modern limiting factors to running more trains per hour through Embarcadero and Montgomery stations is platform capacity. Passengers are exiting those stations at far too slow a rate to leave room on the platform for additional trainloads of exiting passengers.

The solution being floated to this problem is the addition of side platforms at Embarcadero and Montgomery, which would allow more space for exiting passengers and, if I understand it correctly, also more quickly move more passengers out of the stations entirely.
__________________
"In its majestic equality, the law forbids rich and poor alike to sleep under bridges, beg in the streets and steal loaves of bread." --Anatole France
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #1452  
Old Posted Yesterday, 4:58 PM
northbay's Avatar
northbay northbay is offline
Another day in Paradise
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: Cotati - The Hub of Sonoma County
Posts: 1,777
Progress on the Haystack Bridge over the Petaluma River for the SMART line:
(from July 16, 2015)

Untitled by SMART Community Outreach, on Flickr

Untitled by SMART Community Outreach, on Flickr

Untitled by SMART Community Outreach, on Flickr

Untitled by SMART Community Outreach, on Flickr
__________________
"I firmly believe, from what I have seen, that this is the chosen spot of all this Earth as far as Nature is concerned." - Luther Burbank on Sonoma County.

Pictures of Santa Rosa, So. Co.
Reply With Quote
     
     
End
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Discussion Forums > Transportation
Forum Jump


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:17 PM.

     

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2015, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.