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  #4141  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2016, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post

CEO and senior executives income gains over the past 20 years are just crazy. Getting in one of these position is becoming less about your experience and knowledge and more about who you know.

Just insane that a dollard trader that loses $5 plus billion dollars gets paid out $25 million to leave.
*cough, cough* It's getting a little thick in here, no?

The irony is that you're complaining about excessive salaries and then saying it's all "who you know"... The competition for top-level executive talent is so fierce that compensation has to be enormous. If it was all "who you know" there really wouldn't be any competition and therefore compensation would shrink.

Can you point to one public co CEO that holds that position based on "who they know"? It's ok if you can't...

As Beedok (correctly) pointed out, if you want to blame someone for cost cutting in the name of chasing ever-increasing profits, blame the shareholders who demand such. And keep in mind that the majority of shareholders aren't evil barons of capital, but rather the pension funds that cover the retirement of police officers, teachers and other humble public servants...



And now that we've veered completely offtrack, this will be my last post on this topic in this thread... Please feel free to start a new "This is why (I think) we can't have nice things" thread...
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  #4142  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 4:14 AM
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  #4143  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 4:34 AM
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La construction des tours Lucien L'Allier et de la Montagne est prévue cet automne.
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  #4144  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 12:02 PM
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Originally Posted by WhipperSnapper View Post
You're missing the point. The connection is attractive working conditions for employees that may amount to better designed buildings. I'm not suggesting they get back into a non core business like real estate and build themselves a billion dollar signature tower either. Stop being so narrow minded

Sure they pay these guys absurd amounts of money to make more money but, anyone without morals can see laying off people and dumping their workload on the rest, slashing benefits and everything else will pad their bonuses by making more profit. There's no job security anymore. It's brutish, fear mongering tactics that will only last so long.

CEO and senior executives income gains over the past 20 years are just crazy. Getting in one of these position is becoming less about your experience and knowledge and more about who you know.

Just insane that a dollard trader that loses $5 plus billion dollars gets paid out $25 million to leave.
Okay, so you have a problem with reality if you think the bottom line and a focus on it are being narrow minded. These guys didn't get rich or build economic empires by caring about how fancy their buildings looked.

It's actually really simple : Businesses don't need to nor do they generally care one iota about how pretty a building looks.
You drone on about "the good old days" as though they ever really existed. Do we really need to get into a discussion about the working conditions when they were building the ESB ? Not to mention that most of the improvements were brought about through unionization which, as we all know, is an industry that's always been run by candidates for sainthood.

You talk about these guys as though there's no reality they deal with either. Well, call this economics 101 : You lay people off because you're paying too many people who have nothing to do. People who run companies and don't lay people off when the need arises go out of business. Who benefits then ? Seems like things are worse off in that case, don't you think ?

If you want me to agree with you that some CEOs make far more than they should in a moral world then sure, I agree. I also think that any individual who plays a game as their career should be earning next to nothing rather than millions per season. The question is what anybody is going to do about it. Nothing. Nothing, ever.

If you want to build fancy monuments just so they can look pretty on a skyline then I submit to you that if you ever had any hopes of becoming a CEO then they've gone straight out the window. At most, these guys want buildings that leave the public thinking nice things about their companies. Just look at government buildings for proof. The government is answerable to voters, not customers. As such, people want to see utilitarian buildings because they cost the least and people like to think that a responsible government isn't wasting billions etching reliefs along two blocks of concrete because it looks pretty. It's a different image they're trying to project. With
corporations, they want to look like responsible corporate neighbors who give a shit about you and the world we all live in together. Of course they don't really care but it's all about what will help them project that image. A company that moves its headquarters to an ornate palace that was built atop the last standing patch of the Western Oblong Tomato Orchid Belcher flower doesn't look very good in the public's eyes. So the company opts for whatever it can find that suits its needs and keeps it in the public's good books.

And by the way, those guys building those monuments in the Middle East and Asia aren't doing it because their projects make much economic sense. "Face" counts for a lot more in the rest of the world than it does in the developed part. In the Middle East it's all about "I have the biggest and best !". In East Asia it's all about "We've caught up and gone past you. How do you like them apples !?"
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  #4145  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 2:37 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Urbmtl View Post
This is incredible. The impact of the recently built towers is already huge, but what has yet to come will be just as great.
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  #4146  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 3:52 PM
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What it really comes down to for me is that if you want beauty in the public realm and want notable and impressive structures and landmarks, then SOMEONE has to pay for that, and there are only so many candidates available. You have the government and governmental organizations, private businesses, NGOs, and individual citizens. To determine who should be paying, you need to determine which of those parts of society controls the most money, and which has the most to spare. Once you find the answer, then you know who should be paying for it.

Now whether or not you consider having "beauty in the public realm and want notable and impressive structures and landmarks" a priority is a different issue. Perhaps some of us feel our society should be all about efficiency and functionality, and obviously there are arguments to be made for that.
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  #4147  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 4:59 PM
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Originally Posted by lake of the nations View Post
This is incredible. The impact of the recently built towers is already huge, but what has yet to come will be just as great.
Impressive, but the construction has to expand to other areas of downtown. There are too many gaps in the skyline East of PVM and le 1000 for my liking. The buildings U/C there are not visible from the river. We need more buildings in the Quartier international.
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  #4148  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 5:32 PM
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Gap in skyline is a problem only for a few skyscrapers fans. Cities need green spaces, great architecture, good infrastructures, good public transports. Filing up gaps in the skyline is not a need.
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  #4149  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 5:35 PM
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Originally Posted by le calmar View Post
Impressive, but the construction has to expand to other areas of downtown. There are too many gaps in the skyline East of PVM and le 1000 for my liking. The buildings U/C there are not visible from the river. We need more buildings in the Quartier international.
Le Quad Windsor will do the job.
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  #4150  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 6:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin Mtl View Post
Gap in skyline is a problem only for a few skyscrapers fans. Cities need green spaces, great architecture, good infrastructures, good public transports. Filing up gaps in the skyline is not a need.
Also if you love skyscrapers you shouldn't want to have it get lost amongst the filler, so some gaps are good there too.
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  #4151  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 6:19 PM
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The view from (A-720) Route 136 will be great, no gap at all, just a massive cluster of towers.
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  #4152  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 6:19 PM
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Why complain about the gaps from this particular view?
If you go north, west or east, the downtown looks much more compact.
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  #4153  
Old Posted Jul 9, 2016, 6:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Urbmtl View Post
Why complain about the gaps from this particular view?
If you go north, west or east, the downtown looks much more compact.
I don't agree... The East End of downtown is usually underwhelming, except from a few vantage points like the Champlain or Jacques-Cartier bridge. This picture shows one of the best view on the skyline you will ever get in Montreal, so I don't think that saying that it will look much more impressive from other angles is true. I am not bashing on the skyline by the way, it is impressive.
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  #4154  
Old Posted Jul 16, 2016, 8:25 AM
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I hooked up my laptop to the 60 inch TV in the living room to see if I could get a better image... here is my first try: bigger image size, 1920 x 1080

[IMG][/IMG]

The bizarre thing is that new tower, 8 Elm, even at 260 metres, manages to look small beside Aura, 33 Gerrard, and 391 Yonge.
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  #4155  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2016, 8:03 PM
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A few more images from the big screen:

The view from the top of One Yonge, looking down Yonge St. towards the lake.
[IMG][/IMG]

View from the lake looking North.
[IMG][/IMG]
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  #4156  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2016, 8:13 PM
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The detail is very good.
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  #4157  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2016, 9:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Spocket View Post
Okay, so you have a problem with reality if you think the bottom line and a focus on it are being narrow minded. These guys didn't get rich or build economic empires by caring about how fancy their buildings looked.

It's actually really simple : Businesses don't need to nor do they generally care one iota about how pretty a building looks.
You drone on about "the good old days" as though they ever really existed. Do we really need to get into a discussion about the working conditions when they were building the ESB ? Not to mention that most of the improvements were brought about through unionization which, as we all know, is an industry that's always been run by candidates for sainthood.

You talk about these guys as though there's no reality they deal with either. Well, call this economics 101 : You lay people off because you're paying too many people who have nothing to do. People who run companies and don't lay people off when the need arises go out of business. Who benefits then ? Seems like things are worse off in that case, don't you think ?

If you want me to agree with you that some CEOs make far more than they should in a moral world then sure, I agree. I also think that any individual who plays a game as their career should be earning next to nothing rather than millions per season. The question is what anybody is going to do about it. Nothing. Nothing, ever.

If you want to build fancy monuments just so they can look pretty on a skyline then I submit to you that if you ever had any hopes of becoming a CEO then they've gone straight out the window. At most, these guys want buildings that leave the public thinking nice things about their companies. Just look at government buildings for proof. The government is answerable to voters, not customers. As such, people want to see utilitarian buildings because they cost the least and people like to think that a responsible government isn't wasting billions etching reliefs along two blocks of concrete because it looks pretty. It's a different image they're trying to project. With
corporations, they want to look like responsible corporate neighbors who give a shit about you and the world we all live in together. Of course they don't really care but it's all about what will help them project that image. A company that moves its headquarters to an ornate palace that was built atop the last standing patch of the Western Oblong Tomato Orchid Belcher flower doesn't look very good in the public's eyes. So the company opts for whatever it can find that suits its needs and keeps it in the public's good books.

And by the way, those guys building those monuments in the Middle East and Asia aren't doing it because their projects make much economic sense. "Face" counts for a lot more in the rest of the world than it does in the developed part. In the Middle East it's all about "I have the biggest and best !". In East Asia it's all about "We've caught up and gone past you. How do you like them apples !?"
I don't know how to respond.

I was referring to work spaces and working conditions and how they related to architecture. That's very different from demanding pretty buildings. ESB is also several generations before the 1970s and early 1980s where you still rise up through the ranks to a senior executive position. Today it's entirely outsourced to people that aren't necessarily the smartest at business. It's about who's in your inner circle and that's is often inherited. Their salaries have increase well over a thousand fold compared to actual employees during that time. If you're fine with their ever increasing salaries and the swapping out of employees for no purpose but to pay themselves more well. If you want to believe all layoffs are because there's not enough work and your content with an increasing workload with no reward, that's fine with me. I no longer work from them .I just drink with them.
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  #4158  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2016, 10:20 PM
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From what I caught between the lines there, it seems that unless some severely wealthy individual decides to build a very expensive building, we won't be seeing much more than utilitarian towers for a long time... what a horrible fate for a skyscraper enthusiast...
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  #4159  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2016, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by caltrane74 View Post
The detail is very good.
Thanks Cal...

Most of the big towers I've completed, but there are plenty of smaller ones that still don't have a proper texture on them.
Over time I've been adding more and more buildings, shorter and shorter buildings in fact. Lots of the latest are only 20 - 35 metres tall. And also the usual weekly proposals of rather big towers of course. I'm constantly adding them. Those smaller ones really help to fill out the landscape. My model has about 1200 buildings now.
I need to stop adding more buildings and detail, and start to put better textures on the buildings, especially those wooden blocks, so the overall look is more sharp and clear. It just takes lots of time...
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  #4160  
Old Posted Jul 22, 2016, 10:59 PM
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Originally Posted by koops65 View Post
Thanks Cal...

Most of the big towers I've completed, but there are plenty of smaller ones that still don't have a proper texture on them.
Over time I've been adding more and more buildings, shorter and shorter buildings in fact. Lots of the latest are only 20 - 35 metres tall. And also the usual weekly proposals of rather big towers of course. I'm constantly adding them. Those smaller ones really help to fill out the landscape. My model has about 1200 buildings now.
I need to stop adding more buildings and detail, and start to put better textures on the buildings, especially those wooden blocks, so the overall look is more sharp and clear. It just takes lots of time...
...and one can tell it's a labor of love. Thanks so much Koops for creating this eye candy for all of us here. Keep up the great work!
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