Ontario electricity

[vid]

Originally Posted by Brandon716

The government didn't know there would be the intense opposition in Oakville and Mississauga, so if you call that incompetence so be it.

The government didn't know there would be intense opposition to building a power plant in a bedroom community?

Originally Posted by Brandon716

And there is a difference between taxpayers and ratepayers... Ratepayers funds go to hydro budget, tax funds go into government. The distinction is important.

Yeah, and my gas bill pays for my gas and my water bill pays for my water. But I pay for both and if either increases that is less money in my pocket at the end of the day.

You can take money out of your bank account from an ATM or the teller, but in the end, that money is coming from the same place.

[Dr Nevergold]

I think we all know people pay both a hydro and tax bill, but the budgets for hydro are separate from tax payments. You don't say that your phone bill is going toward your cable bill because you pay both.

Vid, if you think you can be Energy Minister then we should appoint you tomorrow. I'm sure you'd be able to create some massive consensus and magically solve all problems. Truth is that people are hard to govern, and governing in the age of youtube and twitter has become very hard. Takes NIMBY to a whole new level, and it makes millions of people an instant cynic.

[haljackey]

Record energy use in Ontario. Want to know where it comes from? Click the link.

http://media.cns-snc.ca/ontarioelect...ectricity.html

Coal generation is usually 1-2% but not now lol.

[vid]

55% of my last hydro bill was delivery charges. This time last year I had a credit that lasted the entire summer because they didn't get around to reading my smartmeter for months and their estimates were way off. 85% of my energy use is during the off-peak energy times. 85%. The peak energy use section on the chart was little more than a sliver. The bill was $114 for June.

Looking at those charts, it kind of becomes laughable that we could meet our energy needs with renewable. Northern Ontario could do it with our hydro base and low density, but the south can't.

[haljackey]

Originally Posted by vid

Looking at those charts, it kind of becomes laughable that we could meet our energy needs with renewable. Northern Ontario could do it with our hydro base and low density, but the south can't.

If you factor nuclear it could possibly be done. Nonrenewable yes but there should be enough uranium to last us until thorium or fusion reactors become a reality.

Nuclear is clean, but it sure ain't green.

[vid]

Nuclear waste can be recycled in some cases, France is among the countries that does it. Canada and the US refuse to.

[Dr Nevergold]

As posted in the other thread, Hudak was calling for the cancellation of the plants, worth noting during the by-elections:

http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/ontari...gas-plant.html

Hudak vows to scrap Mississauga power plant
The Canadian Press Posted: Oct 5, 2011 5:26 PM ET Last Updated: Oct 5, 2011 9:13 PM ET

Progressive Conservative Leader Tim Hudak pledged Wednesday to get rid of a gas-fired power plant west of Toronto, just one day before Ontario voters head to the polls.

The Tory leader has repeatedly derided Premier Dalton McGuinty for promising to pull the plug on the 280-megawatt facility midway through the campaign, calling it a crass attempt to grab votes.

Asked if he'd scrap the Mississauga plant if he formed the next government, Hudak replied: "That's right. Done. Done, done, done."

Its too bad the Liberals caved to political pressure and made the wrong choice to cancel the plants under construction. It was a mistake and we'll see how voters take it.

In terms of nuclear, I don't think you can ignore its risks, but its a better option than coal and gas given the massive environmental destruction they offer. Between the massive volume of mining required for coal and fracking for gas, mining for uranium is far less intensive, and nuclear wastes aren't quite as hard to deal with as the media tend to make out with.

I think nuclear is a good option to use while ramping up renewables to have a baseline production that is reliable regardless of weather or conditions and move away from gas and coal.

[bornagainbiking]

Just announced 42% increase in hydro rates over next 5 yrs.

[vid]

We should semi-privatize the hydro companies and write off their debt again. Worked last time, right?

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by bornagainbiking

Just announced 42% increase in hydro rates over next 5 yrs.

Wonder how many manufacturers are now thinking about leaving Ontario. I know I would be if that was the type of business I managed.

[eternallyme]

These skyrocketing hydro rates are making Ontario uncompetitive for manufacturing especially. Most likely more plants are going to close and head west, to Quebec or (most likely) to the US.

It is the #1 reason why Ontario is an economic basket case right now, and most of the blame falls in the hands of the McGuinty and Wynne governments.

[vid]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

These skyrocketing hydro rates are making Ontario uncompetitive for manufacturing especially. Most likely more plants are going to close and head west, to Quebec or (most likely) to the US.

It is the #1 reason why Ontario is an economic basket case right now, and most of the blame falls in the hands of the McGuinty and Wynne governments.

Yes, and not in the case of preceding governments who built hydro plants or reformed the way hydro is generated or delivered in the province. If only the PCs or NDP were in charge. They have clear plans on how to deal with hydro costs and debt, which everyone knows about and are well publicized. We'll be very prosperous once the NDP or PCs put those plans into place.

[manny_santos]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

These skyrocketing hydro rates are making Ontario uncompetitive for manufacturing especially. Most likely more plants are going to close and head west, to Quebec or (most likely) to the US.

It is the #1 reason why Ontario is an economic basket case right now, and most of the blame falls in the hands of the McGuinty and Wynne governments.

Meanwhile in Mexico, according to a recent Wall Street Journal article:

"Pedro Joaquín Coldwell, [Mexico]'s energy minister, said Monday he feared companies might move Mexican production to the U.S. or Canada if Mexico couldn't offer them more competitive energy prices."

While Mexico's electricity prices are currently 25% higher than in the U.S., they are at least taking steps to ensure they remain globally competitive by finding ways to decrease their electricity prices. Ontario isn't even trying. Ontario's government needs to take this very seriously, especially considering several notable manufacturers have relocated from Ontario to Mexico since McGuinty became Premier - Hershey in Smiths Falls and Sterling in St. Thomas are just two examples. What are they going to do to remain competitive for business, especially considering the high cost of labour here? While I support job creation anywhere in the world, I also want to see Ontario succeed, and the Ontario I see today doesn't have a bright future.

[vid]

We should increase income taxes to subsidize energy costs for corporations!

[eternallyme]

Neither the PCs nor the NDP can come up with a solution either. Ontario might need a new fourth party. A provincial Reform Party?

[haljackey]

This is the price you pay for renewables.

The cost increase would have been even higher if those two new nukes at Darlington weren't cancelled. Ontario seems to have a good track record for nuclear power (excluding initial construction cost overruns) and while it isn't green or renewable, it's clean.

Perhaps Bruce Power may step in at some point. They have the option to add two more reactors, but are not currently pursuing them.

-----

Cool infographic showing where Ontario's power comes from, updated hourly: http://media.cns-snc.ca/ontarioelect...ectricity.html

[drpgq]

It should be noted that 42% increase is coming in a pretty much record low inflation environment so the real increase is colossal.

I'm going to ask one of my friends in Rochester what her bill works out to per KWh all in. The sad thing is that I'm sure it is less and her rate of increase will be way less too.

The problem is we are in a death spiral for electricity prices. We've made commitments to green energy producers that have to be paid and as power prices go up and people use less power, that money will be spread over fewer KWh. It is getting to the point that setting up your own solar panels may be cost effective.

[MolsonExport]

Originally Posted by haljackey

This is the price you pay for renewables.

The cost increase would have been even higher if those two new nukes at Darlington weren't cancelled. Ontario seems to have a good track record for nuclear power (excluding initial construction cost overruns) and while it isn't green or renewable, it's clean.

Perhaps Bruce Power may step in at some point. They have the option to add two more reactors, but are not currently pursuing them.

-----

Cool infographic showing where Ontario's power comes from, updated hourly: http://media.cns-snc.ca/ontarioelect...ectricity.html

Scanning the sources of energy (cool link by the way), a line by ELO (Don't Bring Me Down") popped in my head:
Don't bring me down....BRUCE!

[vid]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Neither the PCs nor the NDP can come up with a solution either. Ontario might need a new fourth party. A provincial Reform Party?

I think this is something that can't be solved by party politics.

[manny_santos]

From the Kingston Whig-Standard:

http://www.thewhig.com/2013/12/04/hy...own-businesses

[Kingston Economic Development Corporation CEO Jeff Garrah] was supplying information to a company that was considering this area, Georgia or Alabama, and the hydro cost has been a factor.

“They were two to three cents per kilowatt hour and we were over 12 cents,” he said.

“The problem remains the cost when they compare themselves against other jurisdictions. If you’re an industry that’s not using a lot of power, it’s still not great, but it’s not the end of the world, but if you’re a large power consumer it is a challenge.”