HomeDiagramsDatabaseMapsForum About
     

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West


Reply

 
Thread Tools Display Modes
     
     
  #2601  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2014, 3:10 AM
Stenar's Avatar
Stenar Stenar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 3,234
"LARP theme park"

Have any of you heard of this "LARP theme park" supposedly being built in Pleasant Grove? My friend saw a model of it at FanX.

I just googled and found that there is an "Evermore Amusement Park" being built in Pleasant Grove, according to the city newsletter: http://www.plgrove.org/documents/new...newsletter.pdf

More info:
http://evermorepumpkinfest.com/everm...k#.U1HrMF6wNG5


A friend of mine took this photo at FanX:


Image from the Evermore website:



Last edited by Stenar; Apr 19, 2014 at 3:34 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2602  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2014, 1:40 PM
jedikermit's Avatar
jedikermit jedikermit is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 2,237
I was just going to post that. Saw the model at FanX / Comic Co. Yesterday. Their pitch in person is pretty...interesting. Evidently the guy who wants it has already put $20 million into it. And maybe there's more demand for Victorian/Steampunk stuff than I thought? Just seems excessive and silly. But that's just me.
__________________
Loving Salt Lake City. Despite everything, and because of everything.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2603  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2014, 4:46 PM
delts145's Avatar
delts145 delts145 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Downtown Los Angeles
Posts: 19,375
Very intriguing. My first thought was that the Wasatch Front's over the top love of everything Harry Potter will have a home base. Should be quite the attraction if the actual product comes anything close to the hype.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2604  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2014, 5:08 PM
StevenF's Avatar
StevenF StevenF is offline
The Drifter
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Omaha, NE
Posts: 1,171
There is no Harry Potter love in my home. Now if there was a scifi park to go in with some of it themed to Star Wars my kids would be screaming on a daily basis to go. I am sure if my 5 year old boy really knew what was going on at the Salt Palace this week he would be driving me nuts wanting to go.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2605  
Old Posted Apr 19, 2014, 5:52 PM
delts145's Avatar
delts145 delts145 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Downtown Los Angeles
Posts: 19,375
Pleasant Grove - Doterra International Headquarters and Campus, Phase I

The first phase of the project will include four corporate buildings and an interpretive welcome center with over 200,000 square feet of office space.

http://www.doterraeveryday.com


http://www.doterraeveryday.com


http://www.doterraeveryday.com


January 6th @ https://scontent-b-lax.xx.fbcdn.net







More Recent - VCBO Architecture









.

Last edited by delts145; Apr 23, 2014 at 7:00 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2606  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2014, 12:39 AM
delts145's Avatar
delts145 delts145 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Downtown Los Angeles
Posts: 19,375
New Xactware Headquarters - Lehi

April 11, 2014

By Paula Moore

http://mountainstates.construction.c...efficiency.asp

The $50-million, 200,000-sq-ft, Class A build-to-suit office building has indoor and outdoor environments that appeal to the well-educated, ecologically savvy employees who work at companies like Google or Apple. These workers want contemporary design, fitness centers, lots of sunlight in work spaces, energy efficiency and attractive natural areas outside a building.

"We're talking about the millennials, who like amenities," says David Brems, founding principal at GSBS Architects of Salt Lake City, which designed the Xactware building and is the principal architecture firm for the Traverse Mountain mixed-use business park where the structure is located. "They don't come [to work] in suits and ties; they come on mountain bikes," he says...


The Xactware building's silvery, contemporary exterior is made of zinc and has a 100-year life - Photo courtesy of Big-D Construction







.

Last edited by delts145; Apr 24, 2014 at 11:24 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2607  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2014, 2:53 AM
Orlando's Avatar
Orlando Orlando is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,990
I think it really sucks that all this new office development is out in sprawlurbia. Just look at at that aerial photo of xterra. There's a lot of open space around it. It really sucks for the environment. People complain about the pollution and such. Well, this is one of the culprits of that very problem. I wish we had more regulations that penalized corporations for not building closer to already built urban infrastructure.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2608  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2014, 5:42 AM
AllOutOfBubbleGum's Avatar
AllOutOfBubbleGum AllOutOfBubbleGum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: West Jordan
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
I wish we had more regulations that penalized corporations for not building closer to already built urban infrastructure.
No no no no. I lived in Vermont where they did just that. Want to know what happened to all their big job creators? They left the state. I was there when IBM said C-ya-later to 1000 people and then announced a new plant in New York which then shut down another plant in Vermont about 4 years later and they took 1500 jobs out of the state. Vermont is very anti business/development and it shows with some of the highest debt in the nation and for the amount of people they have in the state, I think it is the highest per person nationally.

There are better ways.
__________________
"Oh, now we see the violence in the system"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2609  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2014, 5:46 AM
Orlando's Avatar
Orlando Orlando is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Location: Seattle, WA
Posts: 3,990
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllOutOfBubbleGum View Post
No no no no. I lived in Vermont where they did just that. Want to know what happened to all their big job creators? They left the state. I was there when IBM said C-ya-later to 1000 people and then announced a new plant in New York which then shut down another plant in Vermont about 4 years later and they took 1500 jobs out of the state. Vermont is very anti business/development and it shows with some of the highest debt in the nation and for the amount of people they have in the state, I think it is the highest per person nationally.

There are better ways.
Portland has regulations and they are doing better than SLC. Canadian and many European cities have tight regulations, and they have much denser downtowns and are thriving right now, ie. London, Calgary, Toronto. That whole area and Saratoga and all those sprawling communities anger me. The fact that there are no penalties for people and industry that choose to locate further away from existing infrastructure, has caused and will continue to cause many problems environmentally, and aesthetically. We complain why downtown struggles with growth compared to other cities. Well, there's the answer, the sprawl mind-set of the majority of Utahns. Somebody posted that they thought the biggest reason why SLC hasn't seen as much growth as Denver over the many decades was because of the LDS church. Well, the biggest reason in my opinion is the sprawl mindset of Utahns, which may be attributed to the more conservative LDS Utah population.

Last edited by Orlando; Apr 21, 2014 at 1:25 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2610  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2014, 6:41 AM
AllOutOfBubbleGum's Avatar
AllOutOfBubbleGum AllOutOfBubbleGum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: West Jordan
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Orlando View Post
Well, the biggest reason in my opinion is the sprawl mindset of Utahns.
I do agree with that. It is a mind set, but I do not believe in regulations to force companies or people for that matter to do what a few want. IMO I would not live in any of those cities even before I knew they had such regulations.

For lack of growth in downtown and all these companies building other places I wonder how much Salt Lake tried to get them to move downtown anyways. A city like Salt Lake should have ample resources to sway a company like Overstock, Xactware or Adobe to build downtown and increase the vibe for the area but they lost out on these and many other companies for reasons I'm not sure on and I would question their effort. For many years I always had the feeling that SLC was just expecting business to come to downtown and with a click of their fingers it would happen.

Maybe it's the political environment that is the reason. With a majority of business owners being republican and SLC having a democratic mayor, I do not know. But to force companies to only build in one city or close by is really a poor and lazy idea. Try harder maybe. Domo announced they were moving downtown, I want to know why. Is it the environment they were looking for or did the city give them a great deal etc.

Over the last 10 years Ogden changed almost everything about its downtown by encouraging and successfully relocating business into the city core, without regulating others. Now that sounds good to me.

Adding on: I'm more upset that good quality farmland is being built on then installing infrastructure and yes I am a farm boy at heart. I hate Eagle Mt and Sarotoga just as much as you but probably for different reason.
__________________
"Oh, now we see the violence in the system"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2611  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2014, 1:28 PM
delts145's Avatar
delts145 delts145 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Downtown Los Angeles
Posts: 19,375
That one metro is better than another depends on who your talking to, and what your looking for. For example, I constantly come in contact with Portlanders here in L.A. The list of distractions are just as prevalent as the many positive attractions. Of course, this can be said about everywhere, depending on your attitude. One recent discussion was particularly entertaining by a Portlander. He described Central Portland as akin to the movie set of the "Walking Dead" He had us all in stitches as he acted out the typical drug addicted resident of Central Portland, who he said seemed to be walking the streets everywhere.

Xactware was very specific in it's reasoning for expanding, and at the same time relocating it's headquarters to Traverse Mtn's. Silicon Slopes. That particular location, which is exploding with growth puts it smack dab in the middle of it's primary employee resource. I've seen first hand how my childhood communities of Highland/Alpine have gone from farming back wood to chic town & country. That whole sector of Southern Salt Lake Valley and Northern Utah Valley has become the preferred living place of those who often aspire to the Tech version of the American Dream. While I grew up there and love it for many reasons, I prefer at this time in life a more urban setting. That's not to say that when I marry and have four or more kids I won't want to return to that very Ward and June Cleaver bucolic lifestyle. There are those who choose the option to have more shoulder room, a yard, and two or more children.

Children are a major financial responsibility, even for those with an excellent income. Therefore, it becomes paramount to buy in to a dwelling and location where you get the biggest bang for the buck. A place where you can AFFORD to accommodate that growing family. Also, in today's world of high transportation costs and hectic time demands, the typical talented employee will choose to live as close to their work place as possible. Why shouldn't the prevalent Wasatch dream of children, a home with a yard, and a progressive global career be an option? The locations where that makes the most sense right now are places like Lehi, Highland, Saratoga Springs, Draper, Herriman, Riverton, etc. In popular neighborhoods of Salt Lake, where attractive roomy single detached homes are prevalent it is much more expensive to buy than say Lehi or Riverton.

While living back in the Alpine/Highland area for several years, I came in contact with an endless array of transplants from California, and heavily populated areas of the Northeast and Midwest. To talk to these people you would have thought that they had moved to paradise. Not so much because it was paradise, but because they had found the economic freedom to live as they wanted. They could afford to live out the dream of a beautiful home, warm hearted community, and relative safe environment for their children. At the time, I was compelled out of a need to take care of a family member, so I lived in that environment. It wasn't what I felt most enthusiastic about at this time in life, but I certainly understood and respected those who valued it.

I just as soon avoid the tendency to look down on married couples with children and a white picket fence, as I would avoid those who condemn the single, ambitious, career oriented professionals, who prefer a more central or downtown setting like me.

The beauty of America is in having OPTIONS

Admittedly, The Wasatch Front had an over abundance of the positive option of hearth and home, and a lack of healthy, vibrant, downtown urban lifestyle options. Downtown was a place to visit for specific occasions or perhaps work only, but not to live. That is changing very rapidly. Today's options are far more expansive than they were five years ago. Five years from now those options will have again expanded greatly.

That empty land around Doterra will most likely be filled in ten years from now. Pleasant Grove is actively pursuing the build up of a livable, walkable downtown core. For ten's, even hundred's of thousands of residents, nodes such as Lehi/Thanksgiving Point and Pleasant Grove are becoming convenient and very close centers to work and live, with little need for long commutes. I enthusiastically applaud the balance that the Wasatch Front is pursuing. Not only has it progressively pursued mass transit options that are the envy of many a metro, but it is also the envy of the nation in it's pursuit of freeway, parkway and all surface street and related infrastructure upkeep and improvement.

Exercise a little patience. The number of late marrying singles, dual income childless couples, empty nesters, those who can afford a family with centrally located housing, and all those who prefer a vibrant downtown is increasing dramatically in Salt Lake City. Downtown and Central Salt Lake City is becoming an attractive option recognized increasingly throughout the nation as each year passes.

Again, exercise a little patience. Too many pursue instantaneous change as unhealthily as those who pursue the constant drum beat of the grass is always greener syndrome. Enjoy the journey as much as the anticipation of the goal ahead. Those who say, "if you don't like it then move" have a point. However, they should probably temper their words a bit. It would be better to say, "if you don't like it, then work with it, and realize it is changing rapidly". If you can't patiently work to improve the options and feel helplessly compelled by your predilections, then perhaps it would be better to move to an area that is more suitable to your liking. If moving out of state is not an option, then at least you can now have the option of moving to one of the most dramatic downtown transformations in the nation.

I realize that for some the cup is always two thirds empty, and no matter how fast the transformation, it will never be fast enough.

Last edited by delts145; Apr 20, 2014 at 2:21 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2612  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2014, 5:22 PM
CountyLemonade's Avatar
CountyLemonade CountyLemonade is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 394
Quote:
Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
The beauty of America is in having OPTIONS

Admittedly, The Wasatch Front had an over abundance of the positive option of hearth and home, and a lack of healthy, vibrant, downtown urban lifestyle options.
That's exactly it. Folks should absolutely be able to decide whether they want a little slice of '60s Americana with the garage-oriented house and the non-walkable neighborhood that requires a car to do anything meaningful. But we're still skewed heavily in that direction, rather than in the direction that places like the Avenues and Sugar House are, or the direction that Daybreak is heading in. To this day we're still moving way too heavily in the direction of sprawl, and places like Layton that place a moratorium on new apartment construction (completely market-driven, by the way) are what stand in the way of better air quality.

Look. It boils down to this. If we keep the balance skewed toward building as we are in Pleasant Grove, in Lehi, in southern Draper and in Sandy, the health of our city will continue to suffer.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2613  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2014, 6:25 PM
Comrade's Avatar
Comrade Comrade is online now
They all float down here
 
Join Date: Jan 2002
Location: Hair City, Utah
Posts: 9,479
Quote:
Originally Posted by AllOutOfBubbleGum View Post
No no no no. I lived in Vermont where they did just that. Want to know what happened to all their big job creators? They left the state. I was there when IBM said C-ya-later to 1000 people and then announced a new plant in New York which then shut down another plant in Vermont about 4 years later and they took 1500 jobs out of the state. Vermont is very anti business/development and it shows with some of the highest debt in the nation and for the amount of people they have in the state, I think it is the highest per person nationally.

There are better ways.
They must be doing something right - Vermont has the 2nd lowest unemployment rate in the nation.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2614  
Old Posted Apr 20, 2014, 10:52 PM
AllOutOfBubbleGum's Avatar
AllOutOfBubbleGum AllOutOfBubbleGum is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Feb 2014
Location: West Jordan
Posts: 303
Quote:
Originally Posted by Comrade View Post
They must be doing something right - Vermont has the 2nd lowest unemployment rate in the nation.

http://www.bls.gov/web/laus/laumstrk.htm
Good for them. Maybe they can put that to use and build out their roads and make them safer.
__________________
"Oh, now we see the violence in the system"
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2615  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2014, 11:20 AM
delts145's Avatar
delts145 delts145 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Downtown Los Angeles
Posts: 19,375
Quote:
Originally Posted by CountyLemonade View Post
That's exactly it. Folks should absolutely be able to decide whether they want a little slice of '60s Americana with the garage-oriented house and the non-walkable neighborhood that requires a car to do anything meaningful. But we're still skewed heavily in that direction, rather than in the direction that places like the Avenues and Sugar House are, or the direction that Daybreak is heading in. To this day we're still moving way too heavily in the direction of sprawl, and places like Layton that place a moratorium on new apartment construction (completely market-driven, by the way) are what stand in the way of better air quality.

Look. It boils down to this. If we keep the balance skewed toward building as we are in Pleasant Grove, in Lehi, in southern Draper and in Sandy, the health of our city will continue to suffer.
But is it really sprawl to fill in Pleasant Grove or Lehi? Your dwelling in a lot of gray area here. I get the frustration amongst certain purest with an Eagle Mountain, but a Pleasant Grove? Castigating communities like Pleasant Grove for their growth patterns, which are at the hubs of their interregional areas, would be like dissing Murray. It makes little sense. If we're going to condemn certain patterns let's at least be sensical about it. No metro community, not Paris, Rome, London or New York starts as a single entity. All of our major world capitals are composed of many historical communities, which eventually grow together. It is at the point when they grow together, that they then begin to grow upward! Cities such as Pleasant Grove or American Fork have every right to fill in, and very quickly now they will become built out. At that point they build upward. Pleasant Grove is already moving forward aggressively with plans to increase the density of it's historical downtown core area where it is feasible, without destroying historical buildings. Anyone who has driven the 89 core in the past decade understands how rapidly the area is evolving. What was open land a few years ago, separating towns such as Lehi, American Fork and Pleasant Grove, are now filled in with commercial enterprise and hundreds if not thousands of new multi level apartment and condo units.

Sugar House? Here's another area rife with questions of how urban purest you are, and where we must draw the line in the interest of density. How quickly we forget what a pariah Mr. Mecham recently was. And all he wanted to do was build density in the heart of a community that sorely needed it. But it was very painful for many. Also, there are many beautiful neighborhoods in Sugar House that hardly meet an urbanista's required density barometer. Should we plow down those beautiful old homes and cottages in order to put up more urban appropriate apartment buildings?

Another interesting dilemma or gray area. We often site the Avenues as doing it right. Many would choose to live there, if they could afford to. The Avenues are built out, but is it really dense enough? I mean, don't most who live there drive a car to work? It's the heart of the city, and certainly it should demand a lot more height? Should we tear down it's picket fence charm in order to satisfy greater density? Of course not. I'm very proud of the fact that Salt Lake City has at it's very urban core, a large beautifully kept human scale neighborhood, that doesn't reek of urban decay.

Anyone who has stood on the mountains above Utah Valley understands what little land there really is on the north and east sides of the Lake. What farmland is left will be filled in shortly. We now talk of Murray as Salt Lake Valley's second emerging downtown. The day is almost upon us, where Pleasant Grove and Lehi will be seen in the same light as Murray. Speaking of Murray. A lot of purest were alarmed at the size of the parking lot surrounding the IHC Campus. At the time it was constructed it was not economically sensible to build large multi-level parking structures. However, there is a future vision(happening sooner than later) that warrants more commercial square footage, which in turn will change parking lots to parking structures and more vertical commercial. But it is a naturally occurring evolutionary process, which almost always involves unavoidable economics.

Salt Lake City is emerging as a metro of excellent options. There are innumerable studies by prestigious institutions, which site the Wasatch as evolving into one of the most well rounded commuter metros in the nation. One can live minutes from downtown, and at the same time minutes from a world class ski resort or endless recreational opportunities. Most can, and in my opinion should be able to still live in affordable single detached housing, yet have among the shortest commutes in the nation. It isn't an accident that well placed nodes like Thanksgiving Point make that short commute possible. I know, we often pine, myself included, about how nice it would be if Thanksgiving Point were all Downtown. But in the real world, why should thousands of residents in historical communities like Alpine or Lehi have to all go the extra commute to Downtown Salt Lake?

In addition to dramatically evolving multiple downtowns, charming walkable village centers are now beginning to emerge and increase in size all over the metro. Certainly there are mistakes, but the point is that there are now lifestyle options that did not exist a few years ago. Those island nodes of alternative options are increasing in number and size. If anything, the pace of their development is ever quickening, not skewing toward more sprawl. Sure there are pushes outward, but at the same time, there is a lot of infill and density occurring where it is economically feasible.

Last edited by delts145; Apr 21, 2014 at 11:43 AM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2616  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2014, 4:08 PM
Future Mayor's Avatar
Future Mayor Future Mayor is offline
Vote for me in 2019!
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Salt Lake City, UT
Posts: 4,803
Do I wish there were more buildings being built in downtown? Yes. Do I understand that growth is going to happen in downtown as well as the burbs? Yes, but as Delts said, filling in in Lehi and Pleasant Grove makes a lot of sense. Because it is along the I-15 core that the population of the Wasatch Front needs to grow. It's where our transportation infrastructure is located.

The one thing that does frustrate me though is that while these new developments are along the "spine" of the Wasatch Front they aren't paying a true impact fee for developing where they are. Impact fees need to truly reflect the cost that is required to run utilities to these new developments, including sewer, water and electrical impacts, as well as transportation infrastructure impacts.

Eagle Mountain is just ridiculous and once again, it's places like Eagle Mountain and Saratoga Springs that aren't paying true impact fees for their development. These two places developed in the middle of nowhere with access from two two lane roads, through other cities. The massive growth of those two places created serious infrastructure problems, particularly roads, that the other cities like Lehi, and the State then had to deal with. Impact fees need to reflect the true impact, of all areas impacted by growth. Every home built in Saratoga Springs and Eagle Mountain needs to include an impact fee that is passed on to the state, and surrounding cities, for road maintenance in those places.

For example. West Mountain is in the Payson Annexation Policy plan, meaning that Payson eventually anticipates that everything west of I-15 to the Mountain will eventually be part of Payson City. If for instance West Mountain were to incorporate as a city, and if and when it begins to develop, for those residents to access their city from I-15 or from a future Front Runner stop, they will have to go through part of Payson. If impact fees go to a West Mountain City the impact on those roads aren't taken into consideration.

As for the complaint that Salt Lake City just isn't trying to attract businesses to locate in the City, that is a load of crap. Salt Lake City has an economic development department that's role includes working with EDC Utah, GOED, and individually to attract businesses to downtown. One thing I wanted to focus on, if I had decided to run for city council, and had I won, was to work even closer with EDC Utah and GOED to discuss the incentives that are given to companies to expand and relocate. Those incentives need to be adjusted to reflect their true impact on building or expanding in areas such as Lehi, S. Jordan etc. For instance, if a company were to locate in downtown SLC, Provo, Ogden, or places like Murray, what infrastructure upgrades are required vs what new are the infrastructure needs if they build on a farmers field in S. Jordan. The incentives then need to be adjusted to provide a true incentive.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2617  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2014, 5:47 PM
delts145's Avatar
delts145 delts145 is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Downtown Los Angeles
Posts: 19,375
Excellent points Future Mayor. Very much agree with you on the impact fees.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2618  
Old Posted Apr 21, 2014, 7:03 PM
i-215's Avatar
i-215 i-215 is offline
Exit 298
 
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: Greater Los Angeles
Posts: 3,344
I don't find anything broken about the Wasatch Front.

We aren't Houston where all new development is sidewalk-free McMansion sprawl. The Wasatch Front has vibrant potential cores in downtown SLC, Sugarhouse, West Valley/Fairbourne, old-town Murray, SoDa Row/Daybreak, Orem/University Place, and central Provo. Add in future TODs along Frontrunner's route. We are at the very beginning of an explosion of urban-living choices.

On the flip side, we aren't Portland, which forgot about "carrots" entirely, and has been using "sticks" in their urban planning policy for 30 years. Portland is a great town for urban living, but terrible once you start seeking some 1960s single-family Americana. And good luck if your job requires using a car. Only two lanes on Interstate 5 and a 55-mile-per hour speed limit? (Really?)

I appreciate how Utah is using an "all of the above" carrots-only approach:
  • On track to having 60+ miles of a heavy-duty I-15, complete with auxiliary lanes, carpool lane, and even a double-tracked carpool lane in Salt Lake County, eventual truck-climbing lanes at the point of the mountain, and a collector-distributor system through Sandy.
  • Commuter rail from Ogden to Provo
  • An impressive network of light-rail options, which reach most of the suburban valley.
  • Street car and other intra-city transit options for urban living in the central city.
  • A superb network of arterial roads (at least in Salt Lake County).
  • Freeway expansion plans with the Mountain View Corridor Freeway, West Davis Corridor Freeway, South (Utah) County Beltway, Tooele Mid-Valley Freeway.
  • Plans for Bus Rapid Transit in Provo/Orem, Murray, and Bountiful.
  • Expansion plans for the Salt Lake Int'l Airport.
  • A huge laundry-list of arterial widening projects, which will improve safety on main boulevards.
  • A long tradition of requiring sidewalks on all new streets, including dead-end residential ones.
  • Impressive network of constructed or planned multi-use paths, many offering grade-separation.
  • New multi-use paths alongside all new expressways and freeways.
  • Aggressive re-purposing of on-street parking/snow load lanes as dedicated bicycle lanes.

We'll win because we aren't being punitive to anyone, be it a wealthy single dude who wants a hip urban condo, or a Mormon/Catholic family who needs lots of bedrooms and a big yard.
__________________
(I've sadly learned...) You can take the boy out of Utah, but you can't take the Utah out of the boy

Last edited by i-215; Apr 21, 2014 at 7:15 PM.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2619  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 1:13 AM
Stenar's Avatar
Stenar Stenar is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Salt Lake City
Posts: 3,234
Quote:
Originally Posted by delts145 View Post
But is it really sprawl to fill in Pleasant Grove or Lehi? Your dwelling in a lot of gray area here. I get the frustration amongst certain purest with an Eagle Mountain, but a Pleasant Grove? Castigating communities like Pleasant Grove for their growth patterns, which are at the hubs of their interregional areas, would be like dissing Murray. It makes little sense.
Yes, it is sprawl in Lehi or Pleasant Grove because they're not concentrating any of these buildings near each other or near any kind of downtown or business center.

These buildings are 2, 3 or more miles from each other. That is the definition of sprawl.
Reply With Quote
     
     
  #2620  
Old Posted Apr 22, 2014, 2:15 AM
bob rulz bob rulz is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Sugarhouse, SLC, UT
Posts: 1,460
Quote:
Originally Posted by i-215 View Post
I don't find anything broken about the Wasatch Front.

We aren't Houston where all new development is sidewalk-free McMansion sprawl. The Wasatch Front has vibrant potential cores in downtown SLC, Sugarhouse, West Valley/Fairbourne, old-town Murray, SoDa Row/Daybreak, Orem/University Place, and central Provo. Add in future TODs along Frontrunner's route. We are at the very beginning of an explosion of urban-living choices.

On the flip side, we aren't Portland, which forgot about "carrots" entirely, and has been using "sticks" in their urban planning policy for 30 years. Portland is a great town for urban living, but terrible once you start seeking some 1960s single-family Americana. And good luck if your job requires using a car. Only two lanes on Interstate 5 and a 55-mile-per hour speed limit? (Really?)

I appreciate how Utah is using an "all of the above" carrots-only approach:
  • On track to having 60+ miles of a heavy-duty I-15, complete with auxiliary lanes, carpool lane, and even a double-tracked carpool lane in Salt Lake County, eventual truck-climbing lanes at the point of the mountain, and a collector-distributor system through Sandy.
  • Commuter rail from Ogden to Provo
  • An impressive network of light-rail options, which reach most of the suburban valley.
  • Street car and other intra-city transit options for urban living in the central city.
  • A superb network of arterial roads (at least in Salt Lake County).
  • Freeway expansion plans with the Mountain View Corridor Freeway, West Davis Corridor Freeway, South (Utah) County Beltway, Tooele Mid-Valley Freeway.
  • Plans for Bus Rapid Transit in Provo/Orem, Murray, and Bountiful.
  • Expansion plans for the Salt Lake Int'l Airport.
  • A huge laundry-list of arterial widening projects, which will improve safety on main boulevards.
  • A long tradition of requiring sidewalks on all new streets, including dead-end residential ones.
  • Impressive network of constructed or planned multi-use paths, many offering grade-separation.
  • New multi-use paths alongside all new expressways and freeways.
  • Aggressive re-purposing of on-street parking/snow load lanes as dedicated bicycle lanes.

We'll win because we aren't being punitive to anyone, be it a wealthy single dude who wants a hip urban condo, or a Mormon/Catholic family who needs lots of bedrooms and a big yard.
I do certainly understand the importance of having options and catering to a wide variety of interests. I also am very happy - for the most part - with the progress that the Wasatch Front is making towards creating more city center-like areas, and a very painstakingly slow approach to becoming more open and acceptable of walkable communities.

However, I would just like to address a few points in your post. First, the myth that widening urban "arterial" roads makes roads safer. That is a widely-held, and unfortunately, outright false belief. The way to make urban roads safer for all is to force them to slow down. Create more pedestrian crossings - and not these mid-block "crosswalks" that make you feel like you're defying death every time you cross them. Continue to create new bicycle lanes. Lower the speed limits even. On the other hand, add more lanes to a city road, and all it does is make it harder for pedestrians and bicyclists to cross, and sometimes turn them away from those roads entirely because they're too dangerous. It makes drivers feel safer because there's more open space, and it's wider and - theoretically - clearer of traffic. Therefore they feel more comfortable going at higher speeds, which is great for getting somewhere faster, but terrible for traffic and especially pedestrians.

As for the Mountain View Corridor, while I am not per se opposed to it - after all, a lot of development already exists out there - but it won't do a thing to discourage the continued development of isolated, energy-intensive cul-de-sacs out in the middle of nowhere. It's an essentially proven fact as well that building more freeways doesn't decrease commute times or improve traffic at all.

Maybe I'm just being too heavily swayed by the urban planning literature that I've been reading lately. And a lot of things that are happening that you do mention in your post are great, positive steps in the right direction. But we will never break the pattern of increasingly worse sprawl if we insist on continuing to build more freeways and widen city roads to make them "safer".
Reply With Quote
     
     
This discussion thread continues

Use the page links to the lower-right to go to the next page for additional posts
 
 
Reply

Go Back   SkyscraperPage Forum > Regional Sections > United States > Mountain West
Forum Jump



Forum Jump


All times are GMT. The time now is 6:31 AM.

     
SkyscraperPage.com - Archive - Privacy Statement - Top

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.7
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.