Wanting Nice Things and Discrimination - Page 3

Xelebes · #41 Posted **Mar 6, 2015, 4:36 PM**

Split off the derail.

Hallsy's Toupee · #42 Posted **Mar 7, 2015, 3:37 AM**

So, this guy:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...oard-1.2985354

Remember him?
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmont...iral-1.2817803

MrOilers · #43 Posted **Mar 10, 2015, 6:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xelebes

It isn't the vulnerable members of society, it was the racial profiling of aboriginal community members as trouble makers or undesirables.

Fair point, but often times the people are both.

I think City Center Mall is a bit hesitant to escort some undesirable people off their property for fears of being called "racist" in the public again (if the undesirable person happens to be First Nations).

Daveography · #44 Posted **Mar 10, 2015, 7:41 PM**

^ It's pretty simple: If someone is causing problems in the mall - being boisterous, yelling, fighting, doing or dealing drugs, accosting people, etc., then by all means escort them out and ban them if neccessary.

But that's not what people are complaining about here. They're complaining about the very presence of people who are not doing any of those things. They're complaining about "those people" making them feel uncomfortable, regardless of what "those people" are actually doing or not doing.

If it's because of their race, then yes, those people complaining are racists. But in nearly all cases those people are still being prejudiced against some aspect of those persons, probably classicist or ageist at minimum.

240glt · #45 Posted **Mar 10, 2015, 9:53 PM**

^ by making the comment that it's "very simple" you demonstrate how very little you know about the situation

This thread has more to do with the people who are actually causing problems in the downtown core. And incidents of disorder, petty crime and even violence have spiked in recent months downtown. One of the beat cops in our area told me the other day that he told his wife to stop coming downtown to visit him. A bit reactive ? Maybe. But still...

I'm going to be down here over several late nights doing some after hours energy audits on my towers. Curious to see what the late night dynamic is like at the moment

ciudad_del_norte · #46 Posted **Mar 10, 2015, 10:07 PM**

Really? Just because that was your discussion point doesn't mean that is 'what the thread has to do with". A lot of it is very much about the people that make some uncomfortable downtown.

The underlying social issues may not be simple, but the difference between kicking somebody out of the mall for causing problems and doing so because that type of person might make the more desirable clientle uncomfortable isn't.

Coldrsx · #47 Posted **Mar 10, 2015, 10:46 PM**

Ethnicity, age, gender, dress, etc. should not matter... but we are being far too lenient with 'these people'.

It is completely unacceptable and disgusting.

240glt · #48 Posted **Mar 11, 2015, 12:36 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by ciudad_del_norte

Really? Just because that was your discussion point doesn't mean that is 'what the thread has to do with". A lot of it is very much about the people that make some uncomfortable downtown.

The underlying social issues may not be simple, but the difference between kicking somebody out of the mall for causing problems and doing so because that type of person might make the more desirable clientle uncomfortable isn't.

No, this is about the real issues at hand.

Stick your head in the sand at your own peril

Daveography · #49 Posted **Mar 11, 2015, 2:52 PM**

I'm not sure what's happening here anymore.

No one is asking for leniency for those making actual problems.

What's being asked is people consider their own prejudices when they are made to feel "uncomfortable" by people simply by their presence.

Yet somehow that translates to being asked to tolerate those making actual problems.

Help me to understand why it's so difficult to have separate discussions about these two groups of people - those who actually cause trouble, and those who are simply seen as "undesirable."

I can't help but feel we've become our parents and grandparents, complaining about "today's youth," how they "have no respect," complaining about the way they dress, their "devil music," etc. How many times were such things said about us? Not to mention it scares me how much of our generation is carrying on our parents' and grandparents' racial intolerance; we were supposed to be better than them in that respect.

Hallsy's Toupee · #50 Posted **Mar 11, 2015, 3:03 PM**

I get greatly annoyed by the recent trend among these young punks who don't bother wearing headphones when playing their shitty gangsta rap on their portable devices.

Coldrsx · #51 Posted **Mar 11, 2015, 5:28 PM**

Yup, again, sickening the level of respect people have for others AND themselves.

MrOilers · #52 Posted **Mar 11, 2015, 5:43 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveography

What's being asked is people consider their own prejudices when they are made to feel "uncomfortable" by people simply by their presence.

If someone is in the food court having lunch and a homeless person sits at a table next to them wearing visibly soiled clothes and reeking of feet and Listerine, how can you say that they are wrong to feel uncomfortable?

Even if that homeless person is completely minding his own business, he is still a blight to others, whether he realizes it or not.

SHOFEAR · #53 Posted **Mar 11, 2015, 7:23 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Daveography

Not to mention it scares me how much of our generation is carrying on our parents' and grandparents' racial intolerance; we were supposed to be better than them in that respect.

It's the "we live in a world of unicorns and rainbows we all deserve equal respect" crowd that keeps bringing up race. The color of the hobo loitering is not the issue.

Elwood · #54 Posted **Mar 11, 2015, 7:30 PM**

Last week I was on my way to the stairs in City Hall (east elevator area) heading downstairs to Law Courts ... as I opened the door to the stairs, I noticed a guy coming the opposite way through the doors, his soiled sweatpants just being pulled up, he looked like a street person ... as I got into the stairwell I looked to my right and there was a fresh, giant splat of crap in the corner. Obviously this guy had just finished his business. It was beyond disgusting, I nearly puked, yet I felt sorry for this person to be in that situation.

I do agree City Centre Mall's demographics as of late have gotten a lot edgier. It's a bizarre scene after 4:30, a lot of ne'er do wells hanging around. The west bust stop area is a shitshow, it does not feel safe at all, has been that way for years. But, like it or not, we all have to accept the reality of the demographics of Edmonton, and I really can't see this changing. There are an awful lot of visible troubled folks in this city, many of whom are in the central area, that cannot be denied. Nevermind that we have a very high number of parolees living here (I thought that I've read we have the highest parolee population per capita in Canada?) thanks to the adjacent prisons. And if this oil bust continues much longer?

Not sure what we can do ...

ciudad_del_norte · #55 Posted **Mar 11, 2015, 7:42 PM**

Well I'm happy for most of you that are apparently able to exist in a world where you can realistically believe things like race are irrelevant to these discussions and possible solutions.

Unfortunately that's just a luxury we aren't all afforded. It takes a lot less than soiled pants for many to be uncomfortable around certain people. But on this topic I'll just go stick my head back in the sand with rainbows and unicorns.

SHOFEAR · #56 Posted **Mar 11, 2015, 7:44 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elwood

Not sure what we can do ...

1)We have to demand that all people respect a basic level of social behavior in public. Stop making these people into victims as it only legitimizes the shit show they create.

2) This ones harsh, but this isn't a civic responsibility. Edmonton providing services above and beyond what is offered in other municipalities only lures more here. This has to be dealt with at a Provincial or National level. **** I completely agree that it is more cost effective to deal with preventative measure than reactive.....Housing and services need to be provided (it's not a free ride, this should come with expectations) but placing the burden of 1.6m people from northern Alberta (and countless others from across the country) on Edmonton is not the right way to deal with it****

Black Star · #57 Posted **Mar 11, 2015, 8:34 PM**

Was downtown today looking at all the projects going up.

My gawd!!! Around the mall looked like hobo/wanna be gangsta central.

It was almost unreal. So many of these people didn't obey traffic lights. Just dart into traffic and don't give a shit. No enforcement of jay walking was anywhere.

Just an observation from my travels downtown in 1 hour.

Hallsy's Toupee · #58 Posted **Mar 12, 2015, 3:50 PM**

I hope that the upcoming City Centre Mall revamp will dispense with that "gangsta central" feel. The mall needs be one of this city's premiere mall once again, one that is full of high-end shops and lots of shoppers. I assume security will play heavily into the revamp.

SHOFEAR · #59 Posted **Mar 12, 2015, 4:33 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Hallsy's Toupee

I assume security will play heavily into the revamp.

And I assume the Occupy/Idle-no-more/Ferguson type crowd will protest the hell out of it. Because....victims.

Daveography · #60 Posted **Mar 12, 2015, 4:39 PM**

^ And I assume most of the people posting in this thread will dust off their hands, satisfied that someone else has taken care of their problems for them and thus need not take any responsibility or have to concern themselves with the lives of less fortunate strangers in their midst, nor even remotely need to understand their situations. All will be right in the world once more now that the bums are back on the streets.