Washington DC: Rail transit

[202_Cyclist]

Also, metro-rail ridership is nowhere near all-time highs. The ridership is declining, despite growing population for both DC and the neighboring suburbs.

"Metrorail ridership is at a nearly 20-year low, according to the latest Metro ridership report.

Average weekday ridership was 595,000 in last half of 2018. The last time it was that low was in 2000, when weekday ridership averaged about 577,000."

https://wamu.org/story/19/03/11/metr...hats-going-on/

The issue of assault is serious enough that WMATA has a very public campaign to prevent sexual assault.

[jmecklenborg]

^I don't live in Washington but I can't overemphasize my bewilderment at the abandonment of off-peak transit by low-income riders in favor of super-expensive rideshare. People making under $10/hr don't hesitate to pay $18 for a ride home instead of waiting for a $1.75 bus.

Rideshare appeared at roughly the same time that lending for automobile purchases has gotten amazingly loose, with seemingly anyone making less than $15/hr able to buy or lease a brand-new $30,000 vehicle.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Yes, there is the issue of crime and violent assaults at some of the metro stations (Gallery Place, L'Enfant), especially at night.

Metro: 6 teens arrested in 'wolfpack attack' on man in Metro station

Man being sought in attack of woman at Columbia Heights Metro station

Metro Transit Police seek public's assistance to identify person of interest

Man Says Assaulted 3pm Saturday near the SW Waterfront Metro Station

Man charged with a groping a woman on L'Enfant Plaza Metro

Two detained after fight breaks out at L'Enfant Plaza Metro station

And people on here wonder why Americans don't like transit. I used Metro twice in one day about three months ago. Both times I had to sit through people cussing and overall making EVERYONE besides their friends awkward and uncomfortable. Why would anyone take their kids into these situations?I just came back from Tokyo where their incredibly crowded metro system never left me feeling afriad or worried about fights, getting robbed or otherwise feeling weird around loud and rude people(they never made an appearance over my 7 days of heavy riding at all times of the day)

[202_Cyclist]

jtown,man-- based on your username, we can assume you are an adult male. If you feel this way about public safety on metro-rail, the concerns about public safety for women riding alone or families traveling with young children are only heightened.

If people don't feel safe riding metro-rail, they now have a half-dozen other mobility choices (scooters, bike-share, ride-hailing, car-sharing, etc...). We have seen WMATA losing riders. I mentioned the quote before-- the mission of WMATA should be to operate a transit system that can grow ridership and retain passengers, not operate a museum. Poorly-lit stations contribute to the sense of a lack of public safety for some riders.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

jtown,man-- based on your username, we can assume you are an adult male. If you feel this way about public safety on metro-rail, the concerns about public safety for women riding alone or families traveling with young children are only heightened.

If people don't feel safe riding metro-rail, they now have a half-dozen other mobility choices (scooters, bike-share, ride-hailing, car-sharing, etc...). We have seen WMATA losing riders. I mentioned the quote before-- the mission of WMATA should be to operate a transit system that can grow ridership and retain passengers, not operate a museum. Poorly-lit stations contribute to the sense of a lack of public safety for some riders.

Correct. Just for the record(and not to sound macho or some crap), I personally feel fine in most situations American urban areas present to me. My only issue is when I bring my gf with me or families riding our transit systems.

I understand your point about other options and I think we should be much more open to biking like many places in Asia and Europe(a bike with two kid seats etc.) but I don't think we should have to give up our transit systems to people with zero social skills. We should kick them off for a time. If they can't act right, sorry, you don't get the right to make others uncomfortable. And anyone who had ridden transit in America know exactly what I am talking about. Its weird we have put up with this this long, honestly.

[VivaLFuego]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Really?

The agency that for decades had rain and snow falling onto open escalators and until recently realized maybe stations that are as dim as the back of your closet should have just a little more lighting?

Originally Posted by ardecila

As for the open escalator portals, I think Weese didn't want to detract from the architecture of the city by adding more clutter to the streetscape. Some places, like the Smithsonian stop, have escalators directly on the mall... a canopy there would literally ruin one of the world's great urban vistas.

All, or nearly all, exposed escalators were the result of National Park Service and or the Capital Planning Commission not giving permission for canopy structures on aesthetic grounds within the L'Enfant federal city, and/or a cost saving measure at the time of construction (there were actual lifecycle cost estimates at the time of construction that the exposed escalators would have about a 10% cost increase, which was probably a bit optimistic). There's been a 15+ year program to gradually add canopies to more of these - such as e.g. the south entrance to Dupont Circle, Eastern Market, Woodley Park, Cleveland Park, but for most locations it's a bureaucratically intense process requiring approval and design review of both the NPS and NCPC.

[eltodesukane]

z

[urbanview]

Tell you what boys, it's better than most other subways in USA. I just love being roasted to death on a summers day in a NYC subway station for example. DC is darker but its cooler.

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The dim lighting is magical

Unfortunately Metro didn't agree; unless I'm mistaken, by the 80s new stations were already better lit. The extension north of Dupont Circle (for example) has had noticeably brighter stations for as long as I can remember.

Originally Posted by ardecila

Some places, like the Smithsonian stop, have escalators directly on the mall... a canopy there would literally ruin one of the world's great urban vistas.

It wouldn't really though since the station entrance is in the side strip of trees, off of the lawn area. There are already other structures in there.

Originally Posted by VivaLFuego

There's been a 15+ year program to gradually add canopies to more of these - such as e.g. the south entrance to Dupont Circle, Eastern Market, Woodley Park, Cleveland Park, but for most locations it's a bureaucratically intense process requiring approval and design review of both the NPS and NCPC.

True, but they appear to have "carte blanche" approval since the same design is being used on all open escalator entrances, with the exception of Dupont Circle North which is a modified design. The same canopies are being installed across the whole system, outside the core and even in the burbs. Curiously, the canopies at Columbia Heights and Georgia Ave are a completely different design, resembling bunkers more than anything; iirc those were constructed originally along with the stations.

[urbanview]

This new Dulles line is a joke. It takes far too long from DC. There should have been an option for a non-stop journey so that Dulles could compete with Reagan for DC people and the inner suburbs.


When u think about it, Dulles is very very far out for an international airport. It's in the f**king boondocks. I don't recall many cities having an airport that is 26 miles away. Narita rings a bell. But anyway, not having an express train out there is just criminal. It takes almost an hour to get there from DC on this new route.

What a dumb, shortsighted mistake honestly. Typical Virginia!

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by urbanview

This new Dulles line is a joke. It takes far too long from DC. There should have been an option for a non-stop journey so that Dulles could compete with Reagan for DC people and the inner suburbs.


When u think about it, Dulles is very very far out for an international airport. It's in the f**king boondocks. I don't recall many cities having an airport that is 26 miles away. Narita rings a bell. But anyway, not having an express train out there is just criminal. It takes almost an hour to get there from DC on this new route.

What a dumb, shortsighted mistake honestly. Typical Virginia!

The Dulles metro extension is largely to provide transportation within the Dulles corridor (between Tysons and Herndon) and to provide a transit connection with Tysons, one of the largest job centers in the Washington region, as well as to allow Tysons to continue to develop.

The biggest mistake with the Dulles metro extension is that it is elevated through most of Tysons and wasn't built as a tunnel.

JFK is 18 miles from midtown. Denver International Airport is 25 miles from downtown Denver. This is approximately the same distance that Dulles is from DC.

[urbanview]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

The Dulles metro extension is largely to provide transportation within the Dulles corridor (between Tysons and Herndon) and to provide a transit connection with Tysons, one of the largest job centers in the Washington region, as well as to allow Tysons to continue to develop.

The biggest mistake with the Dulles metro extension is that it is elevated through most of Tysons and wasn't built as a tunnel.

JFK is 18 miles from midtown. Denver International Airport is 25 miles from downtown Denver. This is approximately the same distance that Dulles is from DC.

I disagree. Biggest mistake: Not providing a proper express service from the Nations Capital to the airport and prioritizing Virginia over the DC core. Criminal decision, a stupid decision. You have this once in a lifetime opportunity and you blow it. DC leadership failed.

I also am anti-sprawl, so I see this line as encouraging growth far outside the inner core.

I don't care about Tysons, the place is a characterless office park and has no charm whatsoever. Why should Tysons be prioritized, DC is the nations capital and it still is the larger office market! Why didn't DC speak up and be heard.. Where is the business community?

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by urbanview

I disagree. Biggest mistake: Not providing a proper express service from the Nations Capital to the airport and prioritizing Virginia over the DC core.

I also am anti-sprawl, so I see this line as encouraging growth far outside the inner core.

I don't care about Tysons, the place is a characterless office park and has no charm whatsoever. Why should Tysons be prioritized, DC is the nations capital and it still is the larger office market! Why didn't DC speak up and be heard.. Where is the business community?
DC itself is the regions core, the place that has international prestige. To not serve it properly from the main international airport is criminal.

Tysons and the Dulles corridor has one of the densest concentration of jobs in the United States and the Dulles metro will allow this area to also add more housing, reducing vehicle trips.

DC thrives when the entire Washington region does well. The Dulles metro helps connect one of the mid-Atlantic's most important job centers with the rest of the Washington region.

[urbanview]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

Tysons and the Dulles corridor has one of the densest concentration of jobs in the United States and the Dulles metro will allow this area to also add more housing, reducing vehicle trips.

DC thrives when the entire Washington region does well. The Dulles metro helps connect one of the mid-Atlantic's most important job centers with the rest of the Washington region.

Yeah, you sound like the Virginia State Commerce bureau. I don't give a crap about Virginian Sprawl. It's fake, artificial living. Suburban life is dull. Tysons is hideous and has no appeal. DC is the only urban thing in this region, and to have sprawl and poor airport access limit its growth and potential is sickening. DC is a major planning disaster. Whoever decided to put Dulles so far away was an idiot. Decentralization is a curse of cities. LA's downtown bears witness to that, and its decline is a result of sprawl and other factors, but sprawl is a main reason why people didn't go downtown anymore -- same in DC. Shit planning.

The tracks are there, all they had to do is engineer a solution to allow trains to bypass local trains. It's not that hard, it's a once in a lifetime opportunity to link DC to its main international airport. But Virginia gets prioritized because they have more power in politics and business now because DC has never had good leadership.

[jtown,man]

According to Googlemaps downtown DC to Dulles right now is about 47 minutes. Which just so happens to be about the time it takes the train once its completed. I don't understand the rage against that?

Its a consistent time. If I drive in the DC area(which I try not to) I NEVER know how long my trip will take. It could take me 1 hour to leave the metro or 3(like it did three weeks ago).

I don't think transit is always meant to "beat" the car in time. It's meant to provide a stable prediction of how long it will take vs the car, along with all the added benefits of not driving.

We often think other places are lightyears ahead of us when it comes to transit. We are usually right. However, even in Tokyo, which I think we can all agree is pretty much the epitome of the urban experience, has issues with transit to their airports. Narita takes forever to get to and Haneda, unless you are conveniently near the airport, takes at least two trains to get to. At least DC will have an option(for some) of only having to take one train to get to the airport.

EDIT: I just looked at the transit time from the National Diet building in Tokyo to Haneda: Its 38-52 minutes and two trains(three for the 38-minute trip). Thats the CLOSE airport in Tokyo. Its 1 hour and 19 minutes to Narita(and 2,600 yen btw).

The choice made to not include express trains isn't that big of a deal...

[urbanview]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

According to Googlemaps downtown DC to Dulles right now is about 47 minutes. Which just so happens to be about the time it takes the train once its completed. I don't understand the rage against that?

Its a consistent time. If I drive in the DC area(which I try not to) I NEVER know how long my trip will take. It could take me 1 hour to leave the metro or 3(like it did three weeks ago).

I don't think transit is always meant to "beat" the car in time. It's meant to provide a stable prediction of how long it will take vs the car, along with all the added benefits of not driving.

We often think other places are lightyears ahead of us when it comes to transit. We are usually right. However, even in Tokyo, which I think we can all agree is pretty much the epitome of the urban experience, has issues with transit to their airports. Narita takes forever to get to and Haneda, unless you are conveniently near the airport, takes at least two trains to get to. At least DC will have an option(for some) of only having to take one train to get to the airport.

EDIT: I just looked at the transit time from the National Diet building in Tokyo to Haneda: Its 38-52 minutes and two trains(three for the 38-minute trip). Thats the CLOSE airport in Tokyo. Its 1 hour and 19 minutes to Narita(and 2,600 yen btw).

The choice made to not include express trains isn't that big of a deal...

Hey I guess you're right, I'm overreacting I suppose. I guess its not terrible in time compared to some other places, but the fact that Virginia has better access to Dulles, the international airport, is just bad for DC business. Remember, the two area are still sort of competing with each other and I would prefer if DC prevail over the suburbs in the future, not the other way around because I prefer urban centralization over decentralization.. Also, an express train to the airport has a high prestige factor worldwide. I wanted an express link given the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to do that. I thought that it would help get DC more connected to overseas markets and make it more desirable for business like the Dulles corridor has become. However, i get it that its probably too difficult to do.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by urbanview

Hey I guess you're right, I'm overreacting I suppose. I guess its not terrible in time compared to some other places, but the fact that Virginia has better access to Dulles, the international airport, is just bad for DC business. Remember, the two area are still sort of competing with each other and I would prefer if DC prevail over the suburbs in the future, not the other way around because I prefer urban centralization over decentralization.. Also, an express train to the airport has a high prestige factor worldwide. I wanted an express link given the once-in-a-lifetime opportunity to do that. I thought that it would help get DC more connected to overseas markets and make it more desirable for business like the Dulles corridor has become. However, i get it that its probably too difficult to do.

I am with you. I want DC to grow more than Virginia suburbs(even if they are densifying). I would also love the option of an express train. Nothing is more calming when traveling on trains than knowing you aren't bothering other people with your luggage when you see everyone around you has luggage too. I don't know the thinking that went into this, but I am assuming it came down to money(of course).

[aquablue]

I also agree that a fast train to Dulles would have been the bees knees. Couldn't wait to try it out from downtown DC to catch a flight to London, but I learnt that it's nearly an hour. No thanks. Shame they only cater to the Tysons crowd. Now I have no real need to use it.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by aquablue

I also agree that a fast train to Dulles would have been the bees knees. Couldn't wait to try it out from downtown DC to catch a flight to London, but I learnt that it's nearly an hour. No thanks. Shame they only cater to the Tysons crowd. Now I have no real need to use it.

It's 11PM right now and the travel time by car is 39 minutes.
Uber would cost what...30-40 dollars? So the train would be a lot cheaper and only take about 20 minutes longer...at 11pm.
It's 35-55 minutes during normal Monday mornings at 730.

The time savings aren't that great when you consider costs. If DC's metro had a flat cost it would be a no-brainer. For me personally, if the train costs like 5-10 bucks and an uber costs something like 30-40 dollars and could potentially take longer than the train, I pick train.

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

The biggest mistake with the Dulles metro extension is that it is elevated through most of Tysons and wasn't built as a tunnel.

Curious as to why? Personally I prefer being above ground.

Originally Posted by aquablue

Shame they only cater to the Tysons crowd. Now I have no real need to use it.

DC is part of a region. Anyway for me it is two trains and a bus; soon it will be just two trains. If that 2nd train stops along the way so be it.