Washington DC: Rail transit

[cambron J]

DC lost the commercial development war 30 years ago. The key word in Dulles Corridor Metrorail Project is corridor. The branch would have never been built without the ten other stations or no station through Tysons Corner. When all is said and done no more then 6 trains an hour will be operated between downtown DC and the airport during peak. Less then 10 percent of the passengers using the branch will pass through the faregates at the airport. It is my believe that 1/4 of the passengers using the branch will not leave Virginia.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by cambron J

Less then 10 percent of the passengers using the branch will pass through the faregates at the airport. It is my believe that 1/4 of the passengers using the branch will not leave Virginia.

No doubt several thousand people work at Dulles. I have seen statistics elsewhere that airport station use can be 50% or more airport workers, not passengers. Also, it appears that e-commerce and other large warehouses are destined for the area past Dulles, so the silver line will provide a cheap way for low-wage workers to get to that area from other parts of the metro region. Unfortunately, the airport terminal adds about 1.5 miles, or about 2 minutes, to the route as compared to simply following the Dulles Toll Road from the Dulles Greenway, which is just one more thing slowing the line down.

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

No doubt several thousand people work at Dulles. I have seen statistics elsewhere that airport station use can be 50% or more airport workers, not passengers. Also, it appears that e-commerce and other large warehouses are destined for the area past Dulles, so the silver line will provide a cheap way for low-wage workers to get to that area from other parts of the metro region. Unfortunately, the airport terminal adds about 1.5 miles, or about 2 minutes, to the route as compared to simply following the Dulles Toll Road from the Dulles Greenway, which is just one more thing slowing the line down.

Yes but there are hundreds of thousands of jobs at Tysons and the Dulles Corridor (Reston - Herndon). As I said before, serving this corridor and allowing it to grow into dense neighborhoods of jobs and housing without suffocating on auto congestion is the primary goal of the Dulles metro extension. Connecting to the airport is secondary.

[cambron J]

202_Cyclist
Yes but there are hundreds of thousands of jobs at Tysons and the Dulles Corridor (Reston - Herndon). As I said before, serving this corridor and allowing it to grow into dense neighborhoods of jobs and housing without suffocating on auto congestion is the primary goal of the Dulles metro extension. Connecting to the airport is secondary.

Connecting to the airport was the primary goal. Serving the rest of the development in the corridor made it viable. If you look at WMATA's 1968 Adopted Area Regional System map you will notice the dashed lines denoted as future for the Dulles branch is lightly developed.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by cambron J

DC lost the commercial development war 30 years ago. The key word in Dulles Corridor Metrorail Project is corridor. The branch would have never been built without the ten other stations or no station through Tysons Corner. When all is said and done no more then 6 trains an hour will be operated between downtown DC and the airport during peak. Less then 10 percent of the passengers using the branch will pass through the faregates at the airport. It is my believe that 1/4 of the passengers using the branch will not leave Virginia.

So 25% of people will use this within Virginia while never going into DC? Good. That can only mean continued densification of that area while still 75% are going into DC.

Seems like a win-win.

[RCDC]

Purple Line progress has been a bit slow but here's the Riverdale Park Station Platform (or will be).

[jtown,man]

Sweet. I know the Purple line pretty much just started but after the Silver line finishes up and this is also finished is there any other extensions, new lines, or new stations planned for DC?

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Sweet. I know the Purple line pretty much just started but after the Silver line finishes up and this is also finished is there any other extensions, new lines, or new stations planned for DC?

The Potomac Yards infill station on the Blue/Yellow lines.

[Cirrus]

After the Silver & Purple lines, and the Potomac Yard infill station, the next generation of big transit spending will consist of:

• A lot of BRT projects
• 1 or 2 streetcar extensions
• Megaproject to replace Long Bridge, the intercity rail bridge between DC & Virginia. It'll allow big increases in the frequency of commuter & intercity trains south of DC.

It won't be until the following generation, if ever, that other new Metro or light rail lines are on the table again.

[jtown,man]

Oh yeah, I forgot I asked pretty much this same question some time ago and forgot about Potomac Yards. As locals, do yall think that station in-fill a big deal?

[202_Cyclist]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

Oh yeah, I forgot I asked pretty much this same question some time ago and forgot about Potomac Yards. As locals, do yall think that station in-fill a big deal?

With the growth that Amazon will bring at nearby Crystal City, I think the Potomac Yard infill station will be pretty significant. That area was growing rapidly before the Amazon announcement.

[jmecklenborg]

What opinions do people here have about the purple line? Will it be fast enough, without full grade separation, to be effective in pulling people out of their cars?

The super project that would change things in a big way for the DC area would be a link for the purple line between Bethesda and Tysons, which would have to be almost completely underground, and which would have few stations.

As another poster mentioned, there isn't much potential for office job growth in the district because of the federal government's control of most good sites and the many historic buildings that complicate or prevent modern construction. So nearly all of the job growth will be in the various suburban downtowns and office areas. Connecting those independent of the existing metro system would be a big deal.

[Busy Bee]

I think it will be a huge success. That's my prediction. Short and simple.

[Crawford]

I think the Purple Line will have fairly pathetic ridership. Suburb-to-suburb transit will never have high market share (and I say this as someone who took the bus every day between Bethesda and Silver Spring - was almost entirely non-choice riders).

The Silver Line, however, will do quite well, long-term. Of course it's also much more expensive; one expects higher ridership with heavy rail.

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The super project that would change things in a big way for the DC area would be a link for the purple line between Bethesda and Tysons, which would have to be almost completely underground, and which would have few stations.

Not a bad idea; although Tysons seems to be in another world it's only 8 miles from Bethesda (same distance as Rockville!) The line could tunnel to a station at the CIA campus and then go above ground and follow 123 with a station in McLean and then join the silver line McLean station.

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think the Purple Line will have fairly pathetic ridership. Suburb-to-suburb transit will never have high market share (and I say this as someone who took the bus every day between Bethesda and Silver Spring - was almost entirely non-choice riders).

Did you interview them? Yeah, the J bus kinda sucks but it's the only way to get there without a car. The Purple Line is cutting through one of the most congested and screwed up areas in the region. East-west travel is somewhat limited to 410 and University Blvd, and both are a mess. Apart from that, this isn't just a rail, it's part of a larger plan to revitalize and redevelop a number of areas with density and TOD (which Montgomery and PG counties are being aggressive with). In fact that's already happening:

[202_Cyclist]

The Purple line will also vastly improve travel for people heading from Bethesda and other communities in Montgomery County to Baltimore and other destinations along the Northeast Corridor via MARC and Amtrak, by avoiding a trip to Union Station.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by Crawford

I think the Purple Line will have fairly pathetic ridership. Suburb-to-suburb transit will never have high market share (and I say this as someone who took the bus every day between Bethesda and Silver Spring - was almost entirely non-choice riders).

The Silver Line, however, will do quite well, long-term. Of course it's also much more expensive; one expects higher ridership with heavy rail.

The Purple Line goes to good transit markets. The Silver Line doesn't. The former is going to do better than the latter.

People will be annoyed that Purple Line is slower than Metro, but it'll be a lot faster than the bus and a lot of people will ride it.

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

The Purple line will also vastly improve travel for people heading from Bethesda and other communities in Montgomery County to Baltimore and other destinations along the Northeast Corridor via MARC and Amtrak, by avoiding a trip to Union Station.

Great point, connecting to New Carrolton was brilliant for that reason. As a bonus, from there it's a 20 min train ride to BWI; although the MARC trains don't run as frequently as Metro it's still way closer and easier to get to than Dulles.

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by RCDC

The Purple Line is cutting through one of the most congested and screwed up areas in the region.

The Washington region suffers a ton today because it wasn't a "real" place in the 1800s and so didn't develop the radial roads and railroad network that pretty much everywhere else has on the East Coast and the Great Lakes region. And despite the Potomac and Anacostia being pretty minor rivers, they act to separate the various suburban areas as profoundly as much more significant bodies of water elsewhere. The whole place is like the complete opposite of Pittsburgh.

Everything outside of the conspicuous organization of The District is seemingly as disorganized as the country roads that comprise suburban Atlanta. There aren't many alternate ways to get anywhere. You can see that there weren't many small towns in what now comprises suburban Washington.

There also wasn't a big freight rail network that was abandoned after industry pulled out like in Boston, which is how they came to have a very large commuter rail network.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

The Washington region suffers a ton today because it wasn't a "real" place in the 1800s and so didn't develop the radial roads and railroad network that pretty much everywhere else has on the East Coast and the Great Lakes region.

This is factually wrong. Georgetown and Alexandria were large (for their era) colonial port cities long before Washington was created. You can see this reflected in the 18th and 19th century road and rail networks, which hub as much out of Georgetown and Alexandria as they did from Washington.

What the region lacks is that it did not develop 19th Century heavy industry, and thus has comparatively few rail corridors for a city of its size. We could discuss the reasons it didn't develop very much heavy industry, but suffice to say they are not because it "wasn't a place."

In 1800 Washington+Georgetown+Alexandria would have been the 6th largest city in the country. Individually each of them was among the largest 30 or so, and were all larger than any city in what is now the midwest.