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  #4581  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 5:28 PM
milomilo milomilo is online now
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I think a good first step would be to improve the experience of the BRT at the airport, which wouldn't be difficult as it is so bad currently. Provide good/any signage, a bay close to the doors on the correct side and make buying a ticket like any other transit stop (buying it in Macs - WTF!). Screw the cab companies. Dedicated lanes would be much more difficult but would make the 'rapid' in BRT meaningful. An obvious downtown stop with waiting facilities is necessary too.

With improvements, the bus service could be much more attractive and increase ridership.
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  #4582  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 5:48 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
I think a good first step would be to improve the experience of the BRT at the airport, which wouldn't be difficult as it is so bad currently. Provide good/any signage, a bay close to the doors on the correct side and make buying a ticket like any other transit stop (buying it in Macs - WTF!). Screw the cab companies. Dedicated lanes would be much more difficult but would make the 'rapid' in BRT meaningful. An obvious downtown stop with waiting facilities is necessary too.

With improvements, the bus service could be much more attractive and increase ridership.
Exactly. Do all this.

By the way, how much say does the city have over how the airport develops (ie displacing cab lanes/pickup lanes for a bus stop, building a bus lane through parknride lots, etc)? Is it kind of like a Calgary v CPR type situation?
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  #4583  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 6:01 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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Originally Posted by RyLucky View Post
Exactly. Do all this.

By the way, how much say does the city have over how the airport develops (ie displacing cab lanes/pickup lanes for a bus stop, building a bus lane through parknride lots, etc)? Is it kind of like a Calgary v CPR type situation?
None. 100% federal.
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  #4584  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 6:33 PM
MMMBeer MMMBeer is offline
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Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby View Post
You're expecting 50% higher ridership at the airport than San Francisco gets; it has the highest airport transit use in the US. You're expecting double the ridership that the Toronto Union Pearson Express project is forecasting. Your estimate is not credible.

I like airport transit a lot; I think that a good transit service that provides a direct, legible, easy-to-understand trip to the central city is a valuable thing. I understand there's been some improvements on the user-friendliness side (the last couple of times I've arrived have been late enough I haven't even looked for transit); for a million or two we could probably do a very good job of providing good signage.

Maybe there's a political benefit to airport transit, maybe there's a visitor benefit, maybe it gives people a warm feeling inside. But you can never justify rail transit to the airport on ridership.
+1. As I said on this forum months ago, the actual people who will take airport transit is a very small group.

I'll segment some potential customers for you:

A) extreme cheapskates
B) transit nerds
C) airport employees.
D) People with lots of luggage and/or kids won't ever do it.
E) People who don't live near a transit rail line
F) Business travellers who can expense a cab ride
G) Tourists who know nothing about Calgary Transit.

A, B and C might take transit.

D and F will never take transit.

E and G might but is unlikely.

Unfortunately D, E F and G are the vast majority of air travellers.

I fly a lot, and I took the Route 300 last month for a leisure trip. Price was right but holy cow was it SLOOWWW. I would never take this if I was in a hurry and/or was on a work trip.

Also, how would the LRT be any faster if it's a spur off the NE line? just no reason to run it to the airport unless YYC kicks in a shit load of money.
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  #4585  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 6:46 PM
milomilo milomilo is online now
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I guess I'm in the 'extreme cheapskates' group. But paying $50+ for a cab has never appealed to me. Paying that either end could easily account for 20% of the cost of a domestic flight - obscene. YVR's Skytrain is bliss.
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  #4586  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 6:50 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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^ Skytrain is much faster than what LRT would be.
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  #4587  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 7:02 PM
milomilo milomilo is online now
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Yep. If we ever build some form of heavy passenger rail north of Calgary then that might be the time to build a connection to the airport. Attaching it to the NE leg would need the 8th Ave Subway anyway unless we reduce capacity elsewhere.

Actually, thinking about it, you would only decrease frequency in the far Northeast, which wouldn't be so bad. The more southerly users would have the advantage of a less busy train every so often.
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  #4588  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 7:05 PM
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Originally Posted by milomilo View Post
Yep. If we ever build some form of heavy passenger rail north of Calgary then that might be the time to build a connection to the airport. Attaching it to the NE leg would need the 8th Ave Subway anyway unless we reduce capacity elsewhere.

Actually, thinking about it, you would only decrease frequency in the far Northeast, which wouldn't be so bad. The more southerly users would have the advantage of a less busy train every so often.
And that's only if it is interlined. I think it might end up being a different train system requiring a transfer at the future 88th Ave Station. Then no capacity would be lost even in the Far NE.
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  #4589  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 7:58 PM
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Given a future North Central LRT, what about a separate east west line between NCLRT, Airport and NE LRT? They could then run short trains more frequently.
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  #4590  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 9:56 PM
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Originally Posted by 5seconds View Post
And would that line even need to be LRT? Are there more efficient ways of getting people between the Airport and those two LRT lines?
Agreed. Something like a compressed air tube to just fire passengers non-stop to the airport would be more efficient.
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  #4591  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 10:40 PM
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In 20 years we will all be glad of the foresight the city showed in constructing the airport tunnel. In the meantime we will all whine about the cost....
.... or in 20 years would we be more glad with the foresight of the city if, say, they used the money instead to start building the green LRT line?
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  #4592  
Old Posted May 23, 2014, 11:46 PM
para transit fellow para transit fellow is offline
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And would that line even need to be LRT? Are there more efficient ways of getting people between the Airport and those two LRT lines?
I have a mental image of a catapult... And a landing net...
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  #4593  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 12:45 AM
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I have a mental image of a catapult... And a landing net...
That'd be sweet too, as long as their is a latte stand at apogee.
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  #4594  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 5:23 AM
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.... or in 20 years would we be more glad with the foresight of the city if, say, they used the money instead to start building the green LRT line?
No, we wouldn't be "more glad". To start with, the tunnel money is only a drop in the bucket compared to the Green Line LRT. 20 years from now - hell, 20 hours from now - once the runway is operating, the price of a tunnel goes up at least an order of magnitude. So we could have the airport tunnel, and once we come up with $3 billion build the Green Line, or we could have some preliminary earthworks done for the Green Line, and only need $2.8 billion more for it, plus $3 billion for the airport tunnel.

I'm a transit advocate, but the airport tunnel is a total no-brainer. I'm just glad that a long-term perspective was used for once.
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  #4595  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 5:33 AM
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Originally Posted by ByeByeBaby View Post
No, we wouldn't be "more glad". To start with, the tunnel money is only a drop in the bucket compared to the Green Line LRT. 20 years from now - hell, 20 hours from now - once the runway is operating, the price of a tunnel goes up at least an order of magnitude. So we could have the airport tunnel, and once we come up with $3 billion build the Green Line, or we could have some preliminary earthworks done for the Green Line, and only need $2.8 billion more for it, plus $3 billion for the airport tunnel.

I'm a transit advocate, but the airport tunnel is a total no-brainer. I'm just glad that a long-term perspective was used for once.
Yup, using airport tunnel money to build the green line would have built exactly ZERO useful metres of the green line.
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  #4596  
Old Posted May 24, 2014, 5:56 PM
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Judging by the picture here:
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/calgar...653186?cmp=rss
it looks like an LRT would take one lane.
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  #4597  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 12:04 AM
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Pics from the Airport Tunnel opening ceremony



















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  #4598  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 1:26 AM
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I saw RicoLance, YouNeedAThneed, Wooster and who I think was CorporateWhore. Didn't say hi to anyone though, YNAT because he had his hands full with his kids, Wooster and CorporateWhore (I think) for the same reason as well as I saw them from afar when the speeches were going on, and RicoLance because I couldn't catch up to him. Surprised not to see Bigtime there.

I was also surprised at the overall turnout. These sorts of things are a fairly big deal for the small number of us city-building nerds but didn't think it would prompt so many people to come down for a few hours on a Saturday just to check it out.

It was pretty cool and the project presents well. Doubt I'll be there at 5 AM tomorrow to drive through it but maybe sometime later in the day I'll take a rip through there.
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  #4599  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 2:07 AM
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Originally Posted by frinkprof View Post
I saw RicoLance, YouNeedAThneed, Wooster and who I think was CorporateWhore. Didn't say hi to anyone though, YNAT because he had his hands full with his kids, Wooster and CorporateWhore (I think) for the same reason as well as I saw them from afar when the speeches were going on, and RicoLance because I couldn't catch up to him. Surprised not to see Bigtime there.

I was also surprised at the overall turnout. These sorts of things are a fairly big deal for the small number of us city-building nerds but didn't think it would prompt so many people to come down for a few hours on a Saturday just to check it out.

It was pretty cool and the project presents well. Doubt I'll be there at 5 AM tomorrow to drive through it but maybe sometime later in the day I'll take a rip through there.
You should have smack me from behind. Totally fine with that

It was a great turnout. Would have been one massive clusterfuck if parking were to be allowed.

Don't drive there tomorrow. It is going to be a temporary tourist destination for some time.
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  #4600  
Old Posted May 25, 2014, 3:16 AM
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Originally Posted by frinkprof View Post
I saw RicoLance, YouNeedAThneed, Wooster and who I think was CorporateWhore. Didn't say hi to anyone though, YNAT because he had his hands full with his kids, Wooster and CorporateWhore (I think) for the same reason as well as I saw them from afar when the speeches were going on, and RicoLance because I couldn't catch up to him. Surprised not to see Bigtime there.

I was also surprised at the overall turnout. These sorts of things are a fairly big deal for the small number of us city-building nerds but didn't think it would prompt so many people to come down for a few hours on a Saturday just to check it out.

It was pretty cool and the project presents well. Doubt I'll be there at 5 AM tomorrow to drive through it but maybe sometime later in the day I'll take a rip through there.
You gladly could have said hi! I met a few people I knew, but not any forumers.
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