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View Poll Results: Do you think this will happen???
Yes 4 18.18%
No 16 72.73%
Maybe So??? 2 9.09%
Voters: 22. You may not vote on this poll

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  #1  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2014, 10:33 PM
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thebigATL thebigATL is offline
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2 MLB Baseball Teams for Atlanta???

http://clatl.com/freshloaf/archives/...8Fresh+Loaf%29



If one man gets his way, Turner Field won't get razed in 2017 after the Atlanta Braves move up to its new Cobb County stadium. Instead, a brand new baseball team - known as, wait for it ... the Atlanta Surge - would replace the longtime professional baseball club at the Ted.
The idea for the Surge comes from veteran Atlanta ad exec Mike McDonald, a self-proclaimed lifelong baseball fan, who wants to bring a second Major League Baseball team to metro Atlanta. And he wants the Surge's slogan to be the following: "Let's Turner Lemon into Lemonade!"

The AJC's Tim Tucker, who first reported on the proposal last night, writes from behind the AJC's paywall:

He has presented the idea to some local politicos and business folks. He has talked to lawyers about how to challenge MLB. He even wrote a letter to the Tampa Bay Rays, asking if they'd be interested in relocating. The Rays haven't responded and McDonald has decided he'd prefer the fresh start of an expansion team.
[...]

McDonald already has a name in mind for the AL team he seeks: the Atlanta Surge, drawn from the city motto Resurgens (Latin for rising again). He envisions the city and county receiving an equity stake in the team in return for use of the venue, and an investor group operating the team with him. He says MLB should waive an expansion fee as a way to settle the damages of the Braves leaving the city limits.

He expects people to "take shots" at his plan and says that is fine.

McDonald believes that Atlanta and Fulton County are "owed" a team for their longstanding financial and emotional investments into the Braves' franchise. But it's unlikely the region will land another ball club. There's not enough demand, according to one expert. Plus, the Braves have exclusive rights from MLB for all home games played in most of the metro region - which could be problematic.

The Atlanta Braves declined to comment on the prospects of the Surge. But at least Fulton County Commissioner Robb Pitts said the proposal was "a magnificent idea." That's a start
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  #2  
Old Posted Mar 4, 2014, 10:39 PM
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thebigATL thebigATL is offline
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To be honest, I like the idea we are a "World Class City" and should have atleast 2 teams of the same sports like other cities such as, NY,L.A.,Chicago etc. And we are a Large Market of sports so, why not add more but if MLB do except this, that will be great rivals and they're using the TED.
So why not this will be great and more people from other cities to come And we probably could get a Sports District Something like LAX.
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  #3  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 2:48 PM
gunnerjacket gunnerjacket is offline
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Do I think it will happen? Highly unlikely. Not only for the MLB market rules as stated but also because I don't think Atlanta is yet big enough for 2 teams. We're not only a few million shy of the Chicago market size but there's something to be said about cities that have grown up under the 1-team model. Can anyone really envision Dallas having a second football team?

That being said I applaud the out-of-the-box thinking and would be highly intrigued if they found a model that works. Let's face it, the venue is sitting there and remains highly attractive and functional. And it would be absolutely hilarious and solid karma if a new team were able to foster surrounding development the way the Braves never did. (I know the City had a lot to do with it, but the Braves were miserable partners in the exercise.)

However, the name "Surge" isn't going to fly. Too hokey. Would be better to simply use the full Resurgens and then use 'Surge as the lay-term.

But yeah, that'd be effin funny if they rejuvinated the area!
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Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 2:51 PM
gunnerjacket gunnerjacket is offline
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Side note: If they were to pursue this, I'd be curious to see designs for downsizing the venue into the low 40k range. Would lose the upper tiers in right field, for sure. No one likes baking in the sun.
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  #5  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 5:18 PM
Atlanta3000 Atlanta3000 is offline
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Demolishing this perfectly good stadium will simply be the height of ignorance and waste. Conversely, bringing in another MLB Team just seems profoundly stupid. With that said, couldn't it be repositioned into an outdoor amphitheater? A stadium for the Atlanta School System's Sports and/or a GA State Football Stadium? A Tennis Center?
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  #6  
Old Posted Mar 5, 2014, 9:23 PM
TarHeelJ TarHeelJ is offline
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How about just relocating the Triple A team from Gwinnett? That seems more reasonable...
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  #7  
Old Posted Mar 26, 2014, 8:52 AM
netdragon netdragon is offline
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Let Vinings and Smyrna have something. Everything doesn't need to be in the city limits. Apparently, 100 feet from the perimeter is too far to travel OTP for people living in midtown, eh? People need to expand their horizons.

The team would have a major disadvantage against the Braves, because it'd be farther from the center of population, which is approximately where the new stadium is going. The stadium is also outdated for the same reason it'd be so expensive for the Braves to upgrade it.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2014, 5:58 AM
TarHeelJ TarHeelJ is offline
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Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
Let Vinings and Smyrna have something. Everything doesn't need to be in the city limits. Apparently, 100 feet from the perimeter is too far to travel OTP for people living in midtown, eh? People need to expand their horizons.

The team would have a major disadvantage against the Braves, because it'd be farther from the center of population, which is approximately where the new stadium is going. The stadium is also outdated for the same reason it'd be so expensive for the Braves to upgrade it.
I have warmed some to the idea of the Braves playing in Smyrna - mainly because I really don't believe that most the ragtag crowd that hangs around Turner Field will follow and the atmosphere will actually be fun out there. But it isn't just people in Midtown that it will affect...many people come from the Southside of Metro Atlanta and will now have one hell of a drive to get up that way. The central location seemed to be a nice compromise. Well, minus the undesirables.
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  #9  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2014, 3:37 PM
gunnerjacket gunnerjacket is offline
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Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
Let Vinings and Smyrna have something. Everything doesn't need to be in the city limits. Apparently, 100 feet from the perimeter is too far to travel OTP for people living in midtown, eh? People need to expand their horizons.
I don't think people were upset about the Braves going to Smyrna, but rather that a) the Braves are getting $300-400M in public financing to leave a perfectly fine ballpark they got for near free, b) they used the lack of MARTA access as one of the excuses for leaving and then move to a place even more bereft of transit options, and c) they stonewalled ATL efforts regarding redevelopment of the area around Turner Field and are only all over this new site because they'll reap all the revenue.

In other words they're being hypocrites and Cobb County taxpayers are being snookered. That's what we're miffed about.
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  #10  
Old Posted Mar 29, 2014, 5:15 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TarHeelJ View Post
I have warmed some to the idea of the Braves playing in Smyrna - mainly because I really don't believe that most the ragtag crowd that hangs around Turner Field will follow and the atmosphere will actually be fun out there. But it isn't just people in Midtown that it will affect...many people come from the Southside of Metro Atlanta and will now have one hell of a drive to get up that way. The central location seemed to be a nice compromise. Well, minus the undesirables.
Depends on what section of Midtown. Honestly, during rush hour the traffic going north on I-75 isn't bad until you get past the perimeter, just as traffic going south on 75/85 is bad to sometimes a nightmare. Being right off of 10th street, I know on a first hand basis that during the Braves scheduled games, its actually easier to go north as far as traffic is concerned.
With that being said, it will be harder(traffic woes) for those coming from the south metro, but at the same time, it will be easier for those coming from the like of Marietta, Buckhead, etc.
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Old Posted Mar 29, 2014, 10:27 PM
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Originally Posted by gunnerjacket View Post
I don't think people were upset about the Braves going to Smyrna, but rather that a) the Braves are getting $300-400M in public financing to leave a perfectly fine ballpark they got for near free, b) they used the lack of MARTA access as one of the excuses for leaving and then move to a place even more bereft of transit options, and c) they stonewalled ATL efforts regarding redevelopment of the area around Turner Field and are only all over this new site because they'll reap all the revenue.

In other words they're being hypocrites and Cobb County taxpayers are being snookered. That's what we're miffed about.
This. And thank you.

I am still furious at the way this whole deal played out. The new Denver-based owners suck, in my opinion. They also lied through their teeth about everything related to the move. I will still support the Braves as our team, but I have absolutely no intention of schlepping out there in that beyond hideous traffic to ever see a game. As someone from the NE side of ITP that used to gladly take MARTA, I'm just not willing to endure that horrible traffic.
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  #12  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 6:45 AM
netdragon netdragon is offline
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Originally Posted by TarHeelJ View Post
But it isn't just people in Midtown that it will affect...many people come from the Southside of Metro Atlanta and will now have one hell of a drive to get up that way. The central location seemed to be a nice compromise. Well, minus the undesirables.
Smyrna is actually pretty convenient from I-285 from the South-side. I tested that when we realized we accidentally forgot a bag once when I was dropping my significant other off at the airport for a trip. We doubled back to Smyrna on I-285 and she still had enough time to eat while waiting for the plane.

If you look at it on the map, it's about as far North as midtown, but in I-285 you avoid all that connector mess. If you're coming from I-75, then you just take Langford Parkway over to I-285.

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Originally Posted by gunnerjacket View Post
c) they stonewalled ATL efforts regarding redevelopment of the area around Turner Field and are only all over this new site because they'll reap all the revenue.
No, actually Atlanta used that money for other things, and didn't do what they were supposed to with some of the revenue that they and the Braves should go towards re-development. They didn't upgrade the roads around the stadium much, etc, etc.

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Originally Posted by gunnerjacket View Post
b) they used the lack of MARTA access as one of the excuses for leaving and then move to a place even more bereft of transit options
First of all, MARTA goes there, by bus, and there will be a circulator to get them from the transfer station near the mall (as if it's needed, since it's already so close). So I should just stop there. But I should also remind you that the new stadium is right around most of the ticket-buyers, and also the roads around there are much better than what's around the current stadium.
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  #13  
Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 6:55 AM
netdragon netdragon is offline
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Originally Posted by atlantaguy View Post
As someone from the NE side of ITP that used to gladly take MARTA, I'm just not willing to endure that horrible traffic.
Then take MARTA. You know it goes to the Cumberland mall via the Arts Center, right? Cobb is also considering on the next SPLOST reconnecting CCT to North Springs.

Note that even when Cobb has light rail / BRT on Cobb Pkwy, Fulton County's going to be slow in connecting it to anything else. Then it'll be Cobb people complaining that North Atlanta is so "against rail" hehe.
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Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 4:31 PM
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Originally Posted by gunnerjacket View Post
I don't think people were upset about the Braves going to Smyrna, but rather that a) the Braves are getting $300-400M in public financing to leave a perfectly fine ballpark they got for near free...
Actually, it was the city (not the Braves) that got the stadium for free from the Olympic Committee.

The Braves pay $2 million a year in operating and capital fees -- that's $40 million over the term of the lease. In addition, they pay 8.25% of their gross revenue. That's roughly another $300 million over the life of the lease.

The Braves are also responsible for maintenance. They've pumped in $150 million for that, and say they were facing another $200 million.
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Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 7:48 PM
gunnerjacket gunnerjacket is offline
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No, actually Atlanta used that money for other things, and didn't do what they were supposed to with some of the revenue that they and the Braves should go towards re-development. They didn't upgrade the roads around the stadium much, etc, etc..
The roads were the least of issues, though, and the haggling eventually bogged down over ancillary revenue opportunities for the team. They wanted to redevelop the parking lots or assume control of the parking. The City offered the former but that never panned out, in part because the Braves' demands on development forms and types stifled at least two proposals.

Were the City and the Parks and Rec Authority negligent? Absolutely. The P&R folks should never have been granted such autonomy over the property and certainly could've yielded more revenue back to the team. But the Braves held the City to basically an idealist, and very expensive vision for redevelopment for which they wanted revenue, as well. When that wasn't an option they sold themselves to the highest bidder.

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First of all, MARTA goes there, by bus, and there will be a circulator to get them from the transfer station near the mall (as if it's needed, since it's already so close). So I should just stop there. But I should also remind you that the new stadium is right around most of the ticket-buyers, and also the roads around there are much better than what's around the current stadium
Fine, the location might match the existing site with regards to mass transit. But it's nowhere near the optimum of being on a rail line, which is what the Braves and their fans always griped about.

As to the proximity I agree the Braves are closer to the majority of their fans. And most traffic analysts have suggested that will mean INCREASED auto traffic to the games. Having lived off Windy Hill Road for a couple years I can guarantee that packed braves games will be traffic nightmares.

All of which means the Braves haven't addressed any of their public comments about transportation and accessibility. They've simply positioned themselves to reap a profit from that morass.
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Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
Note that even when Cobb has light rail / BRT on Cobb Pkwy, Fulton County's going to be slow in connecting it to anything else. Then it'll be Cobb people complaining that North Atlanta is so "against rail" hehe.
If this gets rail service into Cobb County then I'll actually applaud the move, but all the early comments from Tea Party factions have voiced their vehement opposition to the idea. If you can't afford to live in east Cobb they tend to fear you, apparently.

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Originally Posted by arjay57 View Post
Actually, it was the city (not the Braves) that got the stadium for free from the Olympic Committee.

The Braves pay $2 million a year in operating and capital fees -- that's $40 million over the term of the lease. In addition, they pay 8.25% of their gross revenue. That's roughly another $300 million over the life of the lease.
I thought it was technically the Fulton Parks and Rec Authority. Either way, the Braves were playing in a fine facility for which they did not suffer up-front costs and only increased their revenues. They simply wanted more and found a sucker willing to pick up the tab. I don't blame them for asking, I blame Cobb County which apparently is fine with laying off teachers but has the cash to supplement a Colorado firms' bottom line. Yay.
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The Braves are also responsible for maintenance. They've pumped in $150 million for that, and say they were facing another $200 million.
Own or lease most ball clubs anticipate those costs. The Braves weren't being caught unawares by some huge new bill and their revenues are solid according to MLB averages. They went fishing and got a bite, so for now they feast.

In the meantime metro Atlanta has $300M less that could go towards transportation improvements, school improvements, park space, or whatever.
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Old Posted Mar 30, 2014, 9:53 PM
TarHeelJ TarHeelJ is offline
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Originally Posted by netdragon View Post
Smyrna is actually pretty convenient from I-285 from the South-side. I tested that when we realized we accidentally forgot a bag once when I was dropping my significant other off at the airport for a trip. We doubled back to Smyrna on I-285 and she still had enough time to eat while waiting for the plane.

If you look at it on the map, it's about as far North as midtown, but in I-285 you avoid all that connector mess. If you're coming from I-75, then you just take Langford Parkway over to I-285.
It's not an awful drive, but Smyrna is not a central location like downtown Atlanta.
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  #17  
Old Posted Mar 31, 2014, 4:42 AM
netdragon netdragon is offline
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As to the proximity I agree the Braves are closer to the majority of their fans. And most traffic analysts have suggested that will mean INCREASED auto traffic to the games.
Only 6-10% of trips to the current stadium are by transit (can't remember exact #, but it was in that range), so I don't see how it could get much worse. When over 90% are currently driving, what is a few percent going to change things?

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If this gets rail service into Cobb County then I'll actually applaud the move, but all the early comments from Tea Party factions have voiced their vehement opposition to the idea. If you can't afford to live in east Cobb they tend to fear you, apparently.
Let's hope. The BRT/LRT down Cobb Pkwy has been on the bucket list for a few years and hopefully this gets 'er done. I imagine the first rail in Cobb will be Cobb-only simply because the metro doesn't work well timing-wise when it actually comes to putting the money on the table at the same time. Eventually, it'll probably get connected ITP and to Perimeter Center but probably not at the same time.

The rail on Cobb Pkwy is most likely short-term going to be more useful for giving a captive audience more to do without driving after the game while they wait for traffic to clear out, and to shuttle people to/from work during the day. I also expect a lot of stadium-goers who don't hang out at the mixed-use after the game and don't want to drive home immediately to sneak into Smyrna by car to avoid highway traffic after the game, and just eat dinner in Smyrna Market Village, or slip down Cumberland Pkwy to Ivy Walk. But the rail will give them other options as well, such as the Marietta Diner. It probably just won't get them out of Cobb County short-term.

I'm not too worried about Tea Partyers in Cobb. They are outnumbered, and just loud but Cobb officials have learned how to deal with them. The Smyrna, Mableton and Cumberland area has become a real force, and that area is much more progressive. I hear many times a response, "For every one of your complaints, I get hundreds of emails in favor" when it comes to talking about the Braves stadium. Hey, if the Tea Partyers are threatening to make re-election tough, this is the time to get things done, eh?

Last edited by netdragon; Mar 31, 2014 at 4:55 AM.
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