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  #14601  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2020, 8:47 PM
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J.OT13 J.OT13 is offline
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I'm sure the Stadlers will be fine. The common element between the crappy Bombardier products and the shitty Spirits is that they are built in North America where pride in workmanship does not seem to be the priority. we seem to have more luck with European built models.
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  #14602  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2020, 9:09 PM
lrt's friend lrt's friend is offline
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Due to the discovery of a cracked wheel requiring an inspection of all trains, in a radio interview, Citizen transit commissioner Sarah Wright-Gilbert announced that Confederation Line entered service today with only 4 trains. By the afternoon peak period, there were 9 trains in service.
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  #14603  
Old Posted Jul 3, 2020, 9:18 PM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
I'm sure the Stadlers will be fine. The common element between the crappy Bombardier products and the shitty Spirits is that they are built in North America where pride in workmanship does not seem to be the priority. we seem to have more luck with European built models.

But the sad thing is that all of Alstom's other North American produced trains are fine, as are Stadlers.

Also, don't jinx it!
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  #14604  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2020, 12:38 AM
Lightspotting Lightspotting is offline
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What's even funnier is that Metrolinx has ordered Alstom Citadis spirit just in case that Bombardier doesn't deliver flexity freedoms for the Eglinton LRT https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...us-alstom.html
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  #14605  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2020, 2:54 AM
Baybreeze12 Baybreeze12 is offline
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Originally Posted by Lightspotting View Post
What's even funnier is that Metrolinx has ordered Alstom Citadis spirit just in case that Bombardier doesn't deliver flexity freedoms for the Eglinton LRT https://www.thestar.com/news/gta/201...us-alstom.html
Which makes me wonder - are there revisions to LRV designs based on "lessons learned" during manufacturing or operations? Like, even though it's the same model name, would Toronto in fact see more of a Spirit Mk II that incorporates design changes which lead to more robust doors, or better protected vulnerable equipment, etc?
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  #14606  
Old Posted Jul 4, 2020, 3:47 PM
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In the "Bombardier would not have been any better" category:

Quote:
Rail613
@rail613


NY subway is bringing ancient retired cars back into service because 300 new Bombardier cars were pulled from service a second time for a safety issue....
At least they have backup options, #ConfederationLine doesn’t..
https://twitter.com/rail613/status/1279271229413826560

*Those ancient trains are 56 years old.
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  #14607  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2020, 12:19 AM
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LRT service reduced to seven trains as cracks found on three steel wheels

Staff Reporter, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Jul 04, 2020 • Last Updated 7 hours ago • 1 minute read


The city will allow the Rideau Transit Group and trainmaker Alstom to reduce its LRT service to seven trains as they try to identify the cause and repair cracks discovered in three steel train wheels.

Service was reduced on the troubled Confederation Line Friday morning after a crack was found on a steel wheel of one of the trains during Thursday night maintenance.

The agency ordered a fleet-wide inspection, which began Thursday night and continued through Friday.

In a memo Saturday, John Manconi, general manager of transportation services, said the inspections were complete and three wheels “have been found to have the defect affecting three single vehicles (1.5 double car train).”

“These will be replaced by Alstom,” the memo reads.

While work continues to determine the root causes of the cracks, all LRT vehicles will now be inspected after each run.

To accommodate that process, “we are permitting RTG/RTM and Alstom to move to a daily fleet count of 7 Vehicles with a hot spare.” The new configurations will provide eight-minute service between trains.

The seven-train service will not change through the day or on weekends, Manconi said.

“With reduced ridership this can be accommodated at this time,” he wrote.

The full LRT fleet consists of 17 trains and 13 are normally needed in rush-hour service.

The GM said work is underway to determine the cause of the cracks and “the city has secured resources in this specialized field to review any findings, next steps, etc.”

There was no estimate on how long it would take to identify the causes and make the fixes.

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...-ea4d590a9ceb/
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  #14608  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2020, 12:20 AM
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New LRT wheel defects reduce operating fleet size, add to list of problems

Jon Willing, Ottawa Citizen
Publishing date: Jul 04, 2020 • Last Updated 2 hours ago • 3 minute read


Ottawa’s LRT trains haven’t been all as they’re cracked up to be, with yet another problem discovered with the vehicles.

Train technicians are trying to find the root cause for faulty wheels after they discovered a crack on a steel wheel, prompting a fleet-wide inspection under a safety order.

City of Ottawa transportation general manager John Manconi reported Saturday that three wheels on three separate Alstom LRT vehicles (two vehicles make up one complete train) had evidence of defects. Alstom was replacing the wheels.

Now all vehicles must be inspected after each use under the safety order, potentially further gumming up a maintenance regime that has struggled to keep up with repairs on the $2.1-billion Confederation Line while the city’s LRT contractor overhauls its management.

Rideau Transit Group (RTG) and its affiliate Rideau Transit Maintenance (RTM) are in the middle of leadership changes with Peter Lauch, the CEO for both companies, leaving those positions on July 10. Coming into the CEO jobs are Nicolas Truchon at RTG and Mario Guerra at RTM.

For transit customers at LRT stations, the latest train problems could mean longer wait times of up to eight minutes since the city is allowing the contractors to only run seven trains on the 12.5-kilometre line while they solve the wheel mystery. An eighth train will be available as a “hot spare” in case one of the seven in-service trains malfunctions.

Ridership is still low because of COVID-19 closures, which is why the city authorized the smaller train count for daily service while the contractor investigates the wheel defects.

This is occurring at a time when the city is also pushing RTG and RTM to make available 15 reliable trains to run on the line by Aug. 4. The LRT system should currently have a maximum of 13 trains running at once.

RTG is operating under a notice of contract default the city issued in March after problems piled up with the LRT system, which hasn’t even been in service for a year. The Confederation Line launched on Sept. 14.

There were 34 Alstom Citadis Spirit vehicles purchased as part of Stage 1. The city gave RTG the contract to produce an additional 38 vehicles as part of the Stage 2 LRT expansion, and those trains are being built and added to the current fleet. At last month’s transit commission meeting, the operating fleet was nearing 38 single vehicles.

While RTG has made progress to improve train software, the overhead wire system and track conditions, it hasn’t provided a timeline for all the fixes that would satisfy city management.

The latest cracked-wheels mess isn’t the first problem with the train wheels.

Earlier this year, the city was confused about why so many trains were getting flat spots on wheels, prompting another root-cause investigation as the contractor was having trouble keeping up with general wheel maintenance.

According to Manconi’s statement on Saturday, the city retained expertise to review findings and assess the next steps when it comes to the cracked-wheels mystery.

There was no information about when the LRT system would resume regular operations.

Train service on Saturday afternoon was further impacted by what OC Transpo called a “track issue” east of Tremblay Station, forcing all customers to use the eastbound station platform.

Alstom is RTG’s main contractor for Ottawa LRT. The city doesn’t have a direct contractual relationship with Alstom.

As a penalty for poor performance, the city hasn’t made monthly maintenance payments to RTG since making one initial payment last fall.

jwilling@postmedia.com
twitter.com/JonathanWilling

https://ottawacitizen.com/news/local...-5c504fce26de/
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  #14609  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2020, 6:10 AM
mykl mykl is offline
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Holy F*&k, what next? Why can I ride a shinkansen across Japan at 300km/h but we can't build a train to get people across half a city?
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  #14610  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2020, 1:38 PM
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The wheels are the most basic piece of equipment on the damn trains, yet so many issues. Are they deliberately buying the cheapest possible alloys to try and save a few bucks?
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  #14611  
Old Posted Jul 5, 2020, 1:40 PM
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Wheels!? The most basic, yet crucial part on any train. Are they buying sub-par steel wheels to try and save money? Using the cheapest possible alloy? This isn't normal...
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  #14612  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 3:43 PM
MalcolmTucker MalcolmTucker is offline
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I bet it all comes back to too much automation and too little concern payed to the consequences of automation on maintenance unless you really get into the tiny details.

Example: you measure how far the vehicle has travelled using wheel rotations. This means that unless you have a system in place to avoid this that the same point of the wheel will almost always be in the same place in its rotation cycle when the train gets an order to change speeds. Introducing a tiny bit of randomness will likely make this problem disappear.
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  #14613  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 7:31 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
The wheels are the most basic piece of equipment on the damn trains, yet so many issues. Are they deliberately buying the cheapest possible alloys to try and save a few bucks?
Ummm.. yes, I believe that's entirely the point of a P3 contract.
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  #14614  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 7:36 PM
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Originally Posted by OTownandDown View Post
Ummm.. yes, I believe that's entirely the point of a P3 contract.
The theory of P3 contracts was that the private partner responsible to build and maintain the system would have an incentive to purchase the best quality materials and demand the highest standards in workmanship since they are the ones responsible for the quasi-entire operation for 30 years.

One might expect a drop in quality and maintenance the last few years just before the system gets dumped on the City, not during the construction phase and first year of operation.
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  #14615  
Old Posted Jul 6, 2020, 7:51 PM
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
Wheels!? The most basic, yet crucial part on any train. Are they buying sub-par steel wheels to try and save money? Using the cheapest possible alloy? This isn't normal...
Is it possible they bought Chinese Steel? This could have been knowingly (to save money) or unknowingly (some disreputable North America steel manufactures buy Chinese Steel and resell it).
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  #14616  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 3:41 AM
Brannwagon Brannwagon is offline
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Are the trains still on slow order because of the heat? Was biking along the MUP just south of Lees and was able to bike faster than the train with relative ease... I know this portion of the track was typically much slower but what I saw today was kind of surprising.
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  #14617  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 4:22 AM
zzptichka zzptichka is offline
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35-36C in the shade on Thursday/Friday. I think the hottest couple of days to date. :popcorn:
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  #14618  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 11:12 AM
OCCheetos OCCheetos is offline
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Originally Posted by Brannwagon View Post
Are the trains still on slow order because of the heat? Was biking along the MUP just south of Lees and was able to bike faster than the train with relative ease... I know this portion of the track was typically much slower but what I saw today was kind of surprising.
Yep, the slow orders are put in place intermittently. Yesterday it was in place from 3:30 to around 7:00.
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  #14619  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 11:24 AM
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VANRIDERFAN VANRIDERFAN is offline
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Originally Posted by roger1818 View Post
Is it possible they bought Chinese Steel? This could have been knowingly (to save money) or unknowingly (some disreputable North America steel manufactures buy Chinese Steel and resell it).
You'd think we'd have the capability to learn from other mistakes.

The city of Victoria BC did the same thing with their draw bridge. In the end it cost the city more money than it would have if they bought from North America.

https://www.theglobeandmail.com/news...ticle30497337/
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  #14620  
Old Posted Jul 7, 2020, 12:19 PM
OTownandDown OTownandDown is offline
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Originally Posted by J.OT13 View Post
The theory of P3 contracts was that the private partner responsible to build and maintain the system would have an incentive to purchase the best quality materials and demand the highest standards in workmanship since they are the ones responsible for the quasi-entire operation for 30 years.

One might expect a drop in quality and maintenance the last few years just before the system gets dumped on the City, not during the construction phase and first year of operation.
Yes I understand the theory, however in practice the low-bidder won the project. A private company who is a low bidder doesn't automatically mean they're going to buy premium parts and materials. Over the course of the service life of the system, you can be sure the RTG will not be spending a cent more than is absolutely required.
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