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  #801  
Old Posted Jul 31, 2008, 6:05 PM
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Originally Posted by M1EK View Post
At least central Seattle is getting LRT. Central Austin is getting nothing but Rapid Bus from Cap Metro, and that's only if our city councilmembers on their board don't heroically torpedo it like they did last time (a decision with which I whole-heartedly agreed).
Up until recently, transportation secretary Paula Hammond was siding with people who want to gut Sound Transit's operating budget to remove funding for LRT, so until very recently, it wasn't even certain the rail they'd built would even run.

Thankfully, though, the last Sound Transit proposition measure proved that several hundred thousand people in the region are for rail and it would be silly to get this built and tell them it's not running. So now she's on the side of good.

Governor Gregoire? Not so much.
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  #802  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 1:11 AM
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Cesar Chavez goes both ways Monday.

http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...806chavez.html
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  #803  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 5:57 AM
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Originally Posted by kingkirbythegreat View Post
Cesar Chavez goes both ways Monday.

http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...806chavez.html
Ha! You have such a way of putting things! Made me chuckle!
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  #804  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 5:59 AM
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I caught that as well. "going both ways"

Beavis & Butthead did wonders on me for catching things like that.
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  #805  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 6:37 AM
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Originally Posted by kingkirbythegreat View Post
Cesar Chavez goes both ways Monday.

http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...806chavez.html
Honestly, I have to call big f-ing deal on this fiasco.

A couple more blocks west is nothing, traffic still can't go west to mopac.

All the while, runners (like me) on the town lake trail are being screwed for another 3 months. As it is right now, the stupid detour signs tell you to cross the street where there are no pedestrian signals, and really no right-of-way as there is always traffic which has a green light on CC where you are supposed to cross. Runners have made their own way, by necessity, across the construction areas and crossing S 1st street, again with no crosswalk or signal. Now, they have it even worse as there is 2 way traffic should they opt for the "official" detour jumping north of CC... or more traffic going south on 1st (with potential left turners from westbound CC traffic) if they opt for the unofficial (but currently safer) route.

Total clusterf*, awful, I'd say the worst run city project if I weren't so sure that there were going to be many more...
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  #806  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 3:06 PM
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Originally Posted by hookem View Post
Honestly, I have to call big f-ing deal on this fiasco.

A couple more blocks west is nothing, traffic still can't go west to mopac.
Huh? Fiasco? Still can't go west to Mopac? I'm not getting what you're talking about.
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  #807  
Old Posted Aug 6, 2008, 3:14 PM
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Originally Posted by kingkirbythegreat View Post
Cesar Chavez goes both ways Monday.

http://www.statesman.com/news/conten...806chavez.html
Welcome back

Thanks for the pun
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  #808  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 5:42 PM
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Actually you will be able to go west all the way to Mopac. Not sure what you ment by that comment but once you pass San Antonio, you can drive west to Mopac as it is already. Once they make it two way, you will be able to drive west from I-35 to mopac and Vice Versa...
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  #809  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 8:25 PM
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Yeah, my bad on that. For some reason I had it in my mind that there was an additional block or two that they weren't currently tearing up that was one way. But I was wrong. I'm basically just pissed about the fact the trail has been torn up right there forever, the detour is awful, and now there will be even more traffic there (and who knows when they'll finish the trail part).

Cesar Chavez also has a terrible light (for pedestrians) just west of Lamar by the YMCA. While they were working on the Lance Armstrong bikeway, there was a trail detour and you had to use that crosswalk. You have to wait like 2 1/2 cycles before you get a walk sign, and then it only lasts for 5 seconds and people are still turning right on to Cesar Chavez while you cross.

Plus, for some reason, the speed limit on Cesar Chavez is the most ignored in the city. Maybe it's cause of the direct access to mopac, but on the west side people seem to blast through it at 55mph minimum.
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  #810  
Old Posted Aug 8, 2008, 9:51 PM
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Oh, I hate it. I was down there the other night on my bike. I was over at the Palmer Events Center, and was debating which way would get me to Cheapos on Lamar quicker. Going down Riverside, up Congress, down West 5th, and up Lamar, or down Riverside, across the pedestrian bridge, up Cesar Chavez to San Antonio up to West 5th and over to Lamar. I took the latter route. It got me there quicker I think, but the sidewalk area along Cesar Chavez is a mess. I know it'll be nice once it's completed farther down near Congress though. I really hope they expand the sidewalk all the way to Lamar. Right now it's a no man's land for pedestrians. I'd like to see the esplanade extended all the way to Lamar and widen the sidewalk on the north side of Cesar Chavez too. With the Seaholm and Green site exploding with development, I don't see how they'd get away with not doing it. I really have high hopes for that area.

I also want to see better connections from near the pedestrian bridge to Lamar for pedestrians and bicyclists. The area over there is really hard to navigate. I hope they make it better.
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  #811  
Old Posted Aug 10, 2008, 4:34 PM
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Lightbulb

True, the Stadler trainsets CapMetro is using isn't FRA compliant and can't run up the MoPac, but it's still a good choice to run on less busy freight rail lines to Austin's east. Compliant FRA trainsets will be needed to run on any UP tracks, including the MoPac.
FRA "Compliant" trainsets are built strong enough to withstand a head-on collision with freight trains and not sustain much damage. Stadler trainsets are designed to deform to protect passenegers in such an collision, not the other way around that FRA "Compliant" requires. Therefore, non-compliant trainsets can't operate on tracks at the same time with "compliant" trains for safety reasons.
Since the MoPac and UP tracks to the south have far too much freight traffic, FRA compliant trainsets will have to be used.
But the Stadler trainsets are great choices to run to Manor and Elgin, or to Pflugerville, as they are to Leander, because CapMetro can time seperate operations on the tracks between compliant and non compliant trains.

While it's true the minimum turning radius of existing commuter rail trainsets, diesel locomotives and passenger cars, is 300 feet, the Stadler DMU minimum turning radius is 130 feet, and NJT's River Line units make several 90 degree turns within city streets in Camden. Check out Camden's Aquarium area on Google Earth if you want to see them. So, the Stadler DMUs can be used on city streets, almost as well as traditional light rail cars. FYI, most light rail cars like DART's and METRO's minimum turning radius is around 85 feet. You'll need a Skoda streetcar to have a minimum turning radius of 50 feet or less.

As for CapMetro's plans to build a streetcar system, I agree as long as the distances remain short, say less than 5 miles long. So, a streetcar system between downtown Austin and UT is acceptable. But I don't agree with the idea to send a streetcar to Austin's airport. It's been my experience that airline passengers want to get to the Airport much faster than what streetcars can accomplish. Instead, I suggest building a new railroad only bridge east of Airport Blvd connecting the old MKT line and the Leander Red Line to the Airport. If Cap Metro really desires to send a streetcar system south, it should head to south Austin and probably terminate near US 290.

Streetcars operate in city streets usually, and travel at city street speeds. They stop at red lights like everyone else. They can stop every block, or every few blocks, so they get nowhere fast. The Stadler DMUs, or more traditional electric powered light rail vehicles, cn stop every mile or two, and will average much higher speeds than streetcars. Streetcars also take up valuable lanes in city streets. A four lane street basically turns into a two lane street when streetcars run on them. Therefore, the best choice of streets to use for streetcars are 6 lane streets, where four lanes remain usable for cars and trucks.

With Austin's city layout of existing rail lines, most commuter/light rail will run north-south. Therefore, most streetcar systems in Austin should run east-west connecting the two light rail routes and third FRA Compliant commuter rail systems together.
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  #812  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 2:46 PM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
While it's true the minimum turning radius of existing commuter rail trainsets, diesel locomotives and passenger cars, is 300 feet, the Stadler DMU minimum turning radius is 130 feet, and NJT's River Line units make several 90 degree turns within city streets in Camden.
Very misleading. The Camden turns were accomplished by taking the entire intersection and condemning corners of their downtown - which is quite feasible there because their downtown looked/looks like Detroit in RoboCop. And, yes, the turns on the trains we bought are 300 feet - according to Capital Metro themselves.
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  #813  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 3:06 PM
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132 feet turn is much less than a 300 feet turn.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stadler_GTW

NJT River Line
Minimum horizontal turning radius: 132 ft

Whether Austin's GTWs are as nimble as NJT's GTWs is immaterial, as Austin could have bought a version of the GTW just as nimble.

Last edited by electricron; Aug 13, 2008 at 3:28 PM.
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  #814  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 6:22 PM
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And 85 feet is much less than 132 feet. So what? We don't have either one; we've got 300.
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  #815  
Old Posted Aug 13, 2008, 6:53 PM
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I know it still sucks for ped/bikes, but Cesar Chavez is good for cars now! I drive it going to and from work. After months of long delays, it's smooth sailing now.

The only hitch I've noticed is you can't turn south onto S. First bridge from driving westbound on CC. You basically have to turn right on Lavaca, and go around the City Hall block to head south across the bridge. Or, as I've seen a few times, people just keep going on CC up to San Antonio intersection and do a U-turn. Not good!
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  #816  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2008, 8:39 PM
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Originally Posted by M1EK View Post
And 85 feet is much less than 132 feet. So what? We don't have either one; we've got 300.
Which isn't a problem because CapMetro Rail only plans to use these trains on freight tracks with 300 feet minimum curves. So they only have to make 300 feet minimum curves.

For street running, apparently CapMetro plans to use streetcars, most likely Skodas, that can do tighter turns than light rail. All is well. Don't Panic!
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  #817  
Old Posted Aug 14, 2008, 8:43 PM
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Originally Posted by M1EK View Post
Very misleading. The Camden turns were accomplished by taking the entire intersection and condemning corners of their downtown - which is quite feasible there because their downtown looked/looks like Detroit in RoboCop. And, yes, the turns on the trains we bought are 300 feet - according to Capital Metro themselves.
The Camden turns are also double track through the turns. The outside track doesn't cut any corners, lies entirely in the street. So, for a single track line, 132 feet is sufficient.

But, CapMetro Rail doesn't plan to use these DMUs in streets. Therefore, the 300 feet minimum turning capability is perfectly fine.
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  #818  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2008, 4:04 PM
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Capital Metro doesn't plan to run streetcars at all - they begrudgingly shat out a ridiculous and useless plan in 2005 that called for running streetcars in shared lanes (making them even less useful than buses). It's the city that's making this happen in reserved guideway and somewhere worth going, and if it ends up happening, it'll be DESPITE Capital Metro, not because of them.

This new plan pays lip service to commuter rail because it has to, but the movers behind it understand that even a transfer from commuter rail to reserved-guideway light rail is probably still bad enough to turn off a choice commuter from riding, so the primary realistic sources of riders are local, not transfers - hence the trip out to the airport, running through all the current and future density on Riverside.
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  #819  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2008, 7:15 PM
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Originally Posted by M1EK View Post
Capital Metro doesn't plan to run streetcars at all - they begrudgingly shat out a ridiculous and useless plan in 2005 that called for running streetcars in shared lanes (making them even less useful than buses). It's the city that's making this happen in reserved guideway and somewhere worth going, and if it ends up happening, it'll be DESPITE Capital Metro, not because of them.

This new plan pays lip service to commuter rail because it has to, but the movers behind it understand that even a transfer from commuter rail to reserved-guideway light rail is probably still bad enough to turn off a choice commuter from riding, so the primary realistic sources of riders are local, not transfers - hence the trip out to the airport, running through all the current and future density on Riverside.
The CapMetro trains for the Leander Line are Regional Rail European trains, they would use STREETCARS for running on city streets. Skoda makes T10 streetcars being used in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland. Minimum turning radius for the Skoda streetcar is 60 feet.
http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/city/do...y_pdf17766.pdf
Skoda specifications:
Configuration: Bi-directional, articulated three-section vehicle, two traction bogies, dual sided entry
· Floor height: 14 inches above top of rail
· Length: 66’-0” (39’-0” wheelbase)
· Width: 8’-1”
· Minimum turning radius: 60 ft.
· Grade parameters: 9% continuous grade (max.)
· Passenger Capacity: 30-40 seated, 130-140 maximum occupancy
· Vehicle weight: 63,500 lbs. (empty), 85,800 lbs. (fully occupied)
· Power requirements: 750 volts DC
· Pantograph height: 15’-0” to 20’-6” (operating), 13’-0” (storage)
· Maximum operating speed: 46 mph

I'm extremely confident it could make any 90 degree turn in downtown Austin without requiring more right of way than the city's streets.

What's so difficult about using streetcars in streets and trains on train tracks that you can't understand?
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  #820  
Old Posted Aug 15, 2008, 10:22 PM
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
The CapMetro trains for the Leander Line are Regional Rail European trains, they would use STREETCARS for running on city streets. Skoda makes T10 streetcars being used in Tacoma, Seattle, and Portland. Minimum turning radius for the Skoda streetcar is 60 feet.
http://www.cincinnati-oh.gov/city/do...y_pdf17766.pdf
Skoda specifications:
Configuration: Bi-directional, articulated three-section vehicle, two traction bogies, dual sided entry
· Floor height: 14 inches above top of rail
· Length: 66’-0” (39’-0” wheelbase)
· Width: 8’-1”
· Minimum turning radius: 60 ft.
· Grade parameters: 9% continuous grade (max.)
· Passenger Capacity: 30-40 seated, 130-140 maximum occupancy
· Vehicle weight: 63,500 lbs. (empty), 85,800 lbs. (fully occupied)
· Power requirements: 750 volts DC
· Pantograph height: 15’-0” to 20’-6” (operating), 13’-0” (storage)
· Maximum operating speed: 46 mph

I'm extremely confident it could make any 90 degree turn in downtown Austin without requiring more right of way than the city's streets.

What's so difficult about using streetcars in streets and trains on train tracks that you can't understand?
LRT Zealotry, basically. If it's not grade separated, elevated and express, it's not worth considering.

Forgetting, of course, that like any mode of transportation, everything is a function of scale.

It would be fabulous if everything wooshed through the air on elevated rails like Disneyland, but back here in the real world, there are considerations like neighborhood integrity, overserving and underserving corridors and cost.
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