Georgia Legislators want to explore reviving Atlanta-Savannah passenger rail

[C.]

Originally Posted by ardecila

The Davis Bacon Act requires prevailing wage to be paid on any government project where Federal funds are involved, even $0.01 of Federal funds.

This is incorrect. It's actually $2,000.00

[C.]

Originally Posted by NikolasM

I'll bite. The line needs to be aimed at Jacksonville, FL as part of a larger national network with a spur near Jessup up to Savannah. That spur would also be a potential part of a future HSR line that splits from, say Raleigh, NC and travels south to Jacksonville and on to Southern Florida stopping near Charleston, SC as well.

I would love to read the cost/benefit and ridership projection numbers for a Atlanta to Savannah high speed train. Because it can be reasonably justified. There can't be that many commuters between the two cities.

If built, daily ridership would be lucky to break double digits! I'm thinking 7 or 8 people. Maybe more on weekends. It would give the Jacksonville skyway a run for its money for biggest misallocation of resources.

[electricron]

Why does what happened in California have any base for an argument of what could happen in Georgia?

For those suggesting HSR lines emitting out of Atlanta to another city in another state, there have been many, including me, pointing out the difficulties of getting other states to join in with the financing. Alabama, Florida, Tennessee, and South Carolina are not likely to raise funds for a line that mostly helps Georgia. Few states will, has California been willing to help fund a HSR line to Las Vegas Nevada?
What makes Atlanta to Savanah HSR line a much better possibility politically is that the entire HSR line will remain in Georgia. The three cities receiving the benefits of HSR service are all within Georgia. Whether the business model is sustainable is entirely a different question - and the point to be answered by the newly commissioned study.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by C.

If built, daily ridership would be lucky to break double digits! I'm thinking 7 or 8 people. Maybe more on weekends. It would give the Jacksonville skyway a run for its money for biggest misallocation of resources.

That's an ridiculous statement - but you already know that.

[tdawg]

This is an interesting idea. I could see Atlanta > Chattanooga > Nashville, and Atlanta > Greenville > Charlotte being feasible one day.

[Busy Bee]

Atlanta is the undeniable capital of the South, it needs a modern railway network worthy of that fact that reaches many points in the Southeast. My wishlist would include Atlanta being the terminal for an Atlanta branch of a massive Eastern seaboard HSR program. It would look like this:

• NEC modernization to true HSR
  
  
• Southern extension of true HSR to become a Boston-Miami mainline. The low density of coastal SC and GA is a ruse as HSR trains from the north would carry large quanitites of recreational travellers to these areas and continuing southward terminating in Miami. "Who would want to take a 200mph train there from the Mid-Atlantic?" my ass. build it and they will come
  
  
• Eastern Seaboard HSR ATL Branch branches south of Richmond (or Charlotte if Charlotte on mainline) and terminates in Atlanta after the following possible routes:
  • Richmond-Raleigh-Greensboro-Charlotte-Greenville-Atlanta OR Richmond-Raleigh-Charlotte-Columbia-Atlanta
  
  
• A network of HSR lines radiating from Atlanta with the following hub and spoke routes connecting the majority of Southeastern population centers:
  • Atlanta-Chattanooga-Nashville
  • Atlanta-Birmingham
  • Atlanta-Montgomery-Mobile (w/ connection to revamped/modernized long distance service to N.O)
  • Atlanta-Savannah (w/ slower speed electrified through services to Charleston and Jacksonville with local stops not requiring a transfer to reach recreational destinations)

[NikolasM]

Originally Posted by tdawg

This is an interesting idea. I could see Atlanta > Chattanooga > Nashville, and Atlanta > Greenville > Charlotte being feasible one day.

Oh don't think so provincial . Minneapolis/St Paul -> Milwaukee -> Chicago -> Indianapolis -> Louisville -> Nashville -> Chattanooga -> Atlanta -> Jacksonville -> Orlando -> Miami and all the decent sized cities on that line between these points. I wouldn't necessarily run a single train the whole length. You'd have MSP to Chicago, Chicago to Atlanta, Atlanta to Miami as three separate trains with easily timed transfers. Need to hit enough states with a real HSR plan to get to 60 votes. I'm working on a high level not to scale route map that lays out the obvious corridors that exist in this country. If we really want to make America great again, we need to start building useful infrastructure.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by DetroitMan

Legislators want to explore reviving the Nancy Hanks Passenger Rail Line
By Sean Evans | February 15, 2019

http://www.wtoc.com/2019/02/15/legis...ger-rail-line/

I wonder what the cost difference would be between a 200MPH line and the present 140MPH that Amtrak can max out at on the NEC (140MPH for a very short distance). If the costs were twice as much, would it be worth it?

[electricron]

Originally Posted by City Wide

I wonder what the cost difference would be between a 200MPH line and the present 140MPH that Amtrak can max out at on the NEC (140MPH for a very short distance). If the costs were twice as much, would it be worth it?

There has been several studies performed in the past, yet nothing ever came from them. It looks like another study will be done every year until a study suggests it can be done with far less money - or with someone else's money.

As what the eventual price tag would be, i suggest looking up the past studies for the information - assuming the past study results were ever published.
2012 study
http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/Ra...cksonville.pdf
2014 study
https://www.columbusga.gov/planning/...port_Final.pdf
2016 study
http://www.dot.ga.gov/InvestSmart/Ra...an-1-26-16.pdf
2017 study
https://www.wsbtv.com/news/local/pro...rgia/646968116

If any of these studies were worth a hill of beans, the data from one could be used again - and not done all over again.
So it seems more like a case of not accepting the results of the previous studies and hoping for new and different results the next time.
But if those previous studies were worth a hill of beans and has good data, a new honest study should get the very same results.
How many times do they need to study this rail line to get the false results they are hoping for?

[Busy Bee]

Everybody is just awestruck when it comes to the sticker price for NEC true HSR. They seem to forget that it would be ~120 billion over likely 15 years. Does anybody really beleive the federal governement can't afford to invest 8-9 billion a year in the nations premier and vital rail corridor? I think not.

[202_Cyclist]

There are four daily trips each way from Atlanta - Savannah and Savannah - Atlanta on Greyhound. The trip takes about 4 1/2 hours. The Greyhound buses seat between 50 - 55 passengers. This is between 400 - 440 seats daily between this city-pair.

High speed rail could be expected to capture a significant portion of these riders, especially if fares are competitive. There would also be some induced demand if travel times were two hours on rail vs. 4 1/2 hours via intercity bus.

[City Wide]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

There are four daily trips each way from Atlanta - Savannah and Savannah - Atlanta on Greyhound. The trip takes about 4 1/2 hours. The Greyhound buses seat between 50 - 55 passengers. This is between 400 - 440 seats daily between this city-pair.

High speed rail could be expected to capture a significant portion of these riders, especially if fares are competitive. There would also be some induced demand if travel times were two hours on rail vs. 4 1/2 hours via intercity bus.

If the State really did HSR (ya, right!) and station to station time was around 90 minutes there would many who would chose that option over flying-----unless Amtrak runs it and prices the fare so high that its only a very limited option.

[plutonicpanda]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Everybody is just awestruck when it comes to the sticker price for NEC true HSR. They seem to forget that it would be ~120 billion over likely 15 years. Does anybody really beleive the federal governement can't afford to invest 8-9 billion a year in the nations premier and vital rail corridor? I think not.

It would be nice if we could take on some mega projects and combine that into a 5 year project. It should be one of the few mega projects in the US that should be going quicker than they are.

[jmecklenborg]

Atlanta-Chattanooga was studied back in the 90s. Nashville > Chattanooga > Atlanta would be about the same length as Atlanta > Savannah, and serve 3+ million people, but of course coordinate with Tennessee. WHICH, btw, is perfectly set up for state-operated rail service between Memphis and Knoxville via Nashville.

Also, the City of Cincinnati built the 300~ mile railroad between it and Chattanooga in the 1880s and still owns it. This line could of course hook up with HSR to Atlanta in Chattanooga in theory, however, that possibility is greatly complicated by the difficult topography in Tennessee and Kentucky.

A rail expert wrote a few years ago that speeds would be limited to 90mph without building a dedicated passenger track at least 28 feet away from the existing freight tracks. That would be horrendously expensive to do given all of the rock cuts, tunnels, and bridges.

[C.]

Originally Posted by 202_Cyclist

There are four daily trips each way from Atlanta - Savannah and Savannah - Atlanta on Greyhound. The trip takes about 4 1/2 hours. The Greyhound buses seat between 50 - 55 passengers. This is between 400 - 440 seats daily between this city-pair.

High speed rail could be expected to capture a significant portion of these riders, especially if fares are competitive. There would also be some induced demand if travel times were two hours on rail vs. 4 1/2 hours via intercity bus.

But there is no way HSR will be competitive with greyhound unless receiving a major subsidy. We're talking at least $1 billion investment and tens of millions for operation costs, all for an average daily ridership for 400 people + induced demand. My speculation but lets see the initial projections!