Downtown a Wasteland !!!

[Fruitloops]

See todays front page (Digital).

Feel bad bc I have to attend that area several times a week. It IS a sh.thole and I worry about people who work there or try to conduct commerce there. Yes there are homeless, addiction and MH issues that contribute to the negative street vibe but hey, I see it every time, there are also a large contingent of bums, losers suckling forever off the govt tit who think its cool to hang out and do nothing.

Its not an easy fix. What are our elected officials to do??

[Fruitloops]

Sorry, front page of the Spec.

[Innsertnamehere]

Article here:

https://www.thespec.com/business/rea...vacancies.html

As Fruitloops didn't even make it clear, instead preferring to go on an anti-homelessness rant, the article is about office vacancies in the city.

I don't think homelessness has much to do with it. Hamilton has always been a weak office market. There is far less office space per capita than most cities of it's size, and it has always had a high vacancy rate.

Honestly, it looks like Hamilton's office market has been surprisingly resilient compared to the rest of the province through COVID. Vacancy has increased, sure, but not wildly like most major office markets. It's still lower than 2015. Toronto's vacancy rate has gone from a little over 3% to over 10% in the same timeframe.



The real problem is that most of Downtown's office space is tied up by a single, terrible landlord - Real Properties.

If an actual major professional landlord could get their hands on Jackson Square and the Stelco tower, they would probably do a much better job of actually leasing the complex up.

Basically what is happening is all the other office buildings downtown are fairly full, then Real Property's buildings all sit half-empty (literally, in the case of 110 King St W, which is 51% empty according to the article).

For those blowing me away on the parking issue downtown, it's critical for office leasing still, like it or not:

Cowie said if it wasn’t for Westinghouse HQ’s limited amount of parking, he could have had the entire building “leased out twice over by now.” Asa also raised issue with the lack of parking in the downtown as something that keeps companies away.

[TheHonestMaple]

I mean the homeless drug addicts that wander around Gore Park certainly don't help making it more appealing to companies that want to set up downtown. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a primary reason why companies choose to set up outside the downtown in business parks. So I don't think his point should be brushed off. Pretending downtown Hamilton is something it isn't doesn't help.

But ya I was surprised to see the vacancy rate is actually lower this year than around 2015. That's good at least. I think with the increase in downtown population in the next few years, and a return to office work eventually coming back - things will improve.

Fortunately I think Hamilton is on the up, something that article seems to leave out.

[Fruitloops]

The "point" is no one is breaking down the doors to set up shop downtown partly bc of the social issues.

It has been mentioned in this forum that companies have taken a pass on downtown Hamilton bc of the ambiance. That causes vacancy..Any new office towers planned??

Many of the buildings in the J Sq complex ie RBT etc are filled with city employees.

So I would argue if all the city employees were not housed in these buildings the vacavcy rate would be thru the roof.

First hand experience, First hand...car broken into twice and tires slashed twice, downtown. Some city employees arrive to find their office broken into and people sleeping in their offices Everything has to be locked during the day.

In the ultimate put your money where your mouth is moment..anyone on this forum planning to rent offices downtown.

[urban_planner]

Not sure why everyone insists this is strictly a Hamilton issue. There is a video on Twitter of a homeless guy jerking off in a bank in Downtown Toronto. As we get more people living Downtown hopefully the undesirables will blend in more like they do in Toronto.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by TheHonestMaple

I mean the homeless drug addicts that wander around Gore Park certainly don't help making it more appealing to companies that want to set up downtown. I wouldn't be surprised if that's a primary reason why companies choose to set up outside the downtown in business parks. So I don't think his point should be brushed off. Pretending downtown Hamilton is something it isn't doesn't help.

But ya I was surprised to see the vacancy rate is actually lower this year than around 2015. That's good at least. I think with the increase in downtown population in the next few years, and a return to office work eventually coming back - things will improve.

Fortunately I think Hamilton is on the up, something that article seems to leave out.

Have you ever been to a city outside of Hamilton. Every major city in this country has homeless people and drug addicts wandering around their downtowns and in most places it's much more prevalent than here. I have been to almost every major city in this country and wandered around their downtowns and Hamilton is fairly tame compared to most of them. The only city I really didn't notice homeless or addicts was Montreal. Even Ottawa is worse than Hamilton. The idea that companies would be adverse to coming here because of a perceived problem with homeless people and addicts is just ridiculous. They don't have a problem moving to much worse cities with higher crime rates so why would it be a problem for them to move here.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

Have you ever been to a city outside of Hamilton. Every major city in this country has homeless people and drug addicts wandering around their downtowns and in most places it's much more prevalent than here. I have been to almost every major city in this country and wandered around their downtowns and Hamilton is fairly tame compared to most of them. The only city I really didn't notice homeless or addicts was Montreal. Even Ottawa is worse than Hamilton. The idea that companies would be adverse to coming here because of a perceived problem with homeless people and addicts is just ridiculous. They don't have a problem moving to much worse cities with higher crime rates so why would it be a problem for them to move here.

I disagree with this pretty strongly. I've been to most of the major cities in Canada, and I Hamilton is probably the worst i've seen.

[urban_planner]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

Have you ever been to a city outside of Hamilton. Every major city in this country has homeless people and drug addicts wandering around their downtowns and in most places it's much more prevalent than here. I have been to almost every major city in this country and wandered around their downtowns and Hamilton is fairly tame compared to most of them. The only city I really didn't notice homeless or addicts was Montreal. Even Ottawa is worse than Hamilton. The idea that companies would be adverse to coming here because of a perceived problem with homeless people and addicts is just ridiculous. They don't have a problem moving to much worse cities with higher crime rates so why would it be a problem for them to move here.

Funny because last time I was in Montreal I was shocked at how many homeless people I saw.

[LikeHamilton]

Originally Posted by bigguy1231

Have you ever been to a city outside of Hamilton. Every major city in this country has homeless people and drug addicts wandering around their downtowns and in most places it's much more prevalent than here. I have been to almost every major city in this country and wandered around their downtowns and Hamilton is fairly tame compared to most of them. The only city I really didn't notice homeless or addicts was Montreal. Even Ottawa is worse than Hamilton. The idea that companies would be adverse to coming here because of a perceived problem with homeless people and addicts is just ridiculous. They don't have a problem moving to much worse cities with higher crime rates so why would it be a problem for them to move here.

Agreed. I travel a lot and it is the same everywhere. No one has found a cure for homelessness and the drug problem.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by LikeHamilton

Agreed. I travel a lot and it is the same everywhere. No one has found a cure for homelessness and the drug problem.

The first time I went to Vancouver over 40 years ago I was shocked by what I saw in their downtown. I was there about a year ago and it hasn't changed and it is supposedly one of the best cities in the world to live in.

[bigguy1231]

Originally Posted by urban_planner

Funny because last time I was in Montreal I was shocked at how many homeless people I saw.

So you just confirmed what I was saying about other cities in the country then. Thanks.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Fruitloops

Everything has to be locked during the day.

But this is the norm for offices. I've never worked in one where I didn't have to have a key card to get in, or where there wasn't security near the first floor entry.

The building I work in now, in Toronto, has "smart" elevators. You choose your floor on a panel, and get informed what elevator to take. Some floors are locked down, so you need to tap your security card before being able to get an elevator; and it's just standard practice.

[ScreamingViking]

Originally Posted by Innsertnamehere

The real problem is that most of Downtown's office space is tied up by a single, terrible landlord - Real Properties.

Hamilton is still a "city in transition" and will be for some time to come. Better regional transit INTO the city may help, as would other changes. But property owners like Real, or Blair Blanchard Stapleton noted in the article, have their own role to play and they're not innocent regarding the situation.

[TheHonestMaple]

ah forgot about Vancouver. Haven't been, but looks like fun. At least it's not THAT bad here.

[Chronamut]

Fun fact, under the bridge by cootes paradise there used to be an ENTIRE shantytown that existed for A loooong time - it took them forever to clean it up - but even going back to the 1800s there have been issues of homelessness. This is nothing new.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25149331

The druggies is fairly newer historically I suppose as new drugs have come onto the market - there will always people who are weak minded who make weak decisions and destroy their lives because of it.

Would you like us to cart them all up north so you don't have to look at them? Perhaps we should have a shuttle service every time someones life implodes so they are no longer an unsightly blight upon our beautiful shiny pristinely reputationed city..

or perhaps we should rebuild that shantytown and stick them all there.. come on.

[king10]

Did we need a new thread for this? Couldnt it go in the existing “downtown update thread” ? Dont think the standard for this sub should be a new thread for every newspaper article.

[TheHonestMaple]

Originally Posted by Chronamut

Fun fact, under the bridge by cootes paradise there used to be an ENTIRE shantytown that existed for A loooong time - it took them forever to clean it up - but even going back to the 1800s there have been issues of homelessness. This is nothing new.

https://www.jstor.org/stable/25149331

The druggies is fairly newer historically I suppose as new drugs have come onto the market - there will always people who are weak minded who make weak decisions and destroy their lives because of it.

Would you like us to cart them all up north so you don't have to look at them? Perhaps we should have a shuttle service every time someones life implodes so they are no longer an unsightly blight upon our beautiful shiny pristinely reputationed city..

or perhaps we should rebuild that shantytown and stick them all there.. come on.

The kind of homelessness we're seeing is absolutely new. It generally started in the 1980s during the crack epidemic, and has gotten worse with the introduction of heroin, meth and now fentanyl. Many people will argue that homeless are just down on their luck, can't afford rent and other such nonsense. The fact is these people are addicted to hard drugs and would rather live on the streets than get off their addiction. I've never said it was easy to get off these drugs, but the progressive activists we hear so loudly have no interest in actually helping those in need. They'd rather leave them on the streets in tents, then give them actual help. It's truly shocking to watch.

I personally don't accept this issue as 'just a normal thing big cities have'. Because i've lived in plenty of cities that don't have this issue. The reason we have this severe problem here in North America is a complete failure to police. And then to top it off you have radical political parties like those in Vancouver and Hamilton that actually promote drug addiction and homelessness by opening injection sites, giving 'safe' supply and not enforcing encampment laws. It's all a recipe for disaster and I expect this summer to be horrid in Hamilton.

No one here is advocating to just 'cart them all up north'. How about we try in patient drug addiction treatment with continued support? Apparently no, people like Nann would prefer to open injection sites and fight encampment bylaws to keep these people homeless and addicted

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I was curious about this shantytown by Cootes. Pretty interesting to read about. But far from a homeless encampment. It was just a group of fisherman that decided to build houses there.

[Chronamut]

It all depended on who you asked whether it was "fishermans" houses or "shantytowns" - the fact is is that it was eventually abolished regardless because they were still technically squatting.

There is a problem with rehab programs - and that is they aren't much different than say the looney bin in that the only real way you can help some of them is to FORCE them to stay or they'll be off as soon as they can and immediately relapse. For some people we need - basically a drug mental hospital. Or a program for those who can get off and more intensive long term "locked up" care for those who cannot. Some people cannot be helped, but they also cannot be allowed to meander the streets where they can do themselves or others harm. Noone wants to hear it, but really, it's the only solution.

While yes mental hospitals were horribly run in some cases and were inhumane - they were also needed in some cases. I mean we poo poo them but we have no problem sticking our elderly in what are basically the same thing. A home, because they can no longer care for themselves.

Of course this could lead to a flood of people intentionally doing drugs just to get a roof over their head and free meals if we offered them programs. Esp during an affordable rent crisis. I think there would have to be some pretty strict penalties for those who were offered such "benefits" - like for instance you cannot leave until, like a real mental hospital, it can safely be said that you are "cured" and you can't have luxuries that would make it just be like a hotel stay on the govts dime.

Also never believe for a SECOND that there isn't a sinister shadow force behind keeping people separated divided and miserable - when everyone is fighting each other they're not playing attention to those pulling the strings. They know the true power comes in the community banding together, so they'll do everything in their power to prevent people from uniting - distractions, angry tweeting, opoid addictions, whatever works.

[Fruitloops]

As a society we do a terrible job in responding to the big 3 social issues.

A case in point. Perhaps many of you have seen the gent who lives in a pile of garbage on York Blvd, west of Queen. I often see By law, citu, ciadt and Ems attending. Yet no matter the gent remains. Clearly he has refused help. So how is he better off in that pile than in a shelter. Wheres the leadership in our virtue signalling politicians to get the right thing done. God help this man and others who need us.