Calgary Car Talk

[Calgarian]

Trying to get an appointment to get tires put on right now is basically impossible, I'll probably end up doing it myself, just need a better jack than the emergency scissor one lol. My summer tires are also completely useless (despite the M&S rating), can't wait to get my winters on and go play lol.

[rotten42]

I use All Season tires on my Rav4 and it works great. I'm sure if I used winter tires it would be better. My might still get them so I can do some good ski trips this winter. That said this ride is miles better than my car. Even when I had winter tires on my car it was horrible. The car just isn't made for winter driving. So instead of getting winter tires again I just a better winter vehicle.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

Trying to get an appointment to get tires put on right now is basically impossible

And once again, Calgary's completely unpredictable climate makes for yet another fall full of "omg snow and I can't get my tires changed!" stories.

Fear not: the roads will be dry and bare within 2 days, just as they are for 90% of the winter here. Thankfully our Nokians will give us that little edge if we actually manage to get past 30 km/h on the roads here (typical max speed whenever there's much snow in Calgary).

[Jimby]

Originally Posted by rotten42

I use All Season tires on my Rav4 and it works great. I'm sure if I used winter tires it would be better. My might still get them so I can do some good ski trips this winter. That said this ride is miles better than my car. Even when I had winter tires on my car it was horrible. The car just isn't made for winter driving. So instead of getting winter tires again I just a better winter vehicle.

but AWD doesn't help you stop and that is why AWD and 4WD need winter tires too.

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

We will see how the blizzaks do in the snow tomorrow morning. I am running the Yokohama Ice Guards on my Altima, stellar tires!

I have the Yokohama IG20 on my Mazda and have had no issues. Those tires make me happy when it snows like this, unfortunately I still have my Pirellis on and would be completely screwed today lol.

[Jimby]

An article in the November Car and Driver on page 30:

"Sacre Pneu - Quebec mandates winter tires and the people rejoice - or at least don't revolt."

Before the law came into effect, the 10 - 20% without winter tires were involved in 2/3 of wintertime accidents.

- 18% reduction in accidents since 2008 when the law came into effect

- 36% reduction in serious accidents resulting in serious injury or death

- 96% of Quebecers agree with the winter tire law

I'm not sure it should be a law but I think Alberta insurance companies should be offering their clients an incentive or else refusing to insure vehicles without winter tires. It would be easy to determine the wear level of the tires and whether winter or all season at the accident scene.

My tires easily passed the Erlton St test earlier today - a steep uphill unplowed but chewed up from previous traffic.

[DoubleK]

I can't wait to put my winters on. I have a Acura TL and it makes a huge difference over my all seasons.

[LFRENCH]

Originally Posted by Calgarian

My summer tires are also completely useless (despite the M&S rating), can't wait to get my winters on and go play lol.

FYI M&S really doesn't mean anything at all. M&S appeared in the 1970's, and was and is to this day applied to any tire that the Manufacturer decides. Unlike the Mountain Snowflake symbol which is regulated by a industry body or the Rubber Association of Canada which meets the severe winter driving conditions.

winter tires have two main features to them, one is tread and other is compound. The tread often features wider blocks and spacing for moving more dense debris or snow, add to them increased siping which helps draw water away from the contact patch and adds more "biting edges".

The second main feature is the compound. A tire needs to be able to warm up when being driven on, this will soften the tire. Naturally a all season tire hardens and takes longer to warm up when driving to provide the traction needed for the winter driving conditions.

The argument of "I have used all season all my life why do i need winter tires?" is a common one. The answer is simple, tire technology( especially winter tires) has grown in leaps and bounds in the past 20 years. We expect more from every aspects of our cars these days, and winter tires are a part of this. If we followed this logic, we would still have manual crank cars(no starter) and 6V electrical systems.

I wasn't attacking Calgarian, rather just answering the question why his pirelli's cannot handle these conditions.

Rusty: What is your opinions on your Fiesta? I was looking at buying a Focus but considering a Fiesta as well.

[Innersoul1]

I can't really give a definative review of the Blizzaks on my MDX becuase this is the first SUV I have owned (not driven). I would say that the performance yesterday was quite good and given their highway performance last week on the way back from Victoria. More than anything I was quite impressed with the AWD system on the Acura. I haven't driven a vehicle with the SH-AWD system. It performed really well on the slick and icy roads yesterday. The power distribution was fantastic also. Those not familiar with SH-AWD check the vid

• Video Link

[Calgarian]

Originally Posted by LFRENCH

FYI M&S really doesn't mean anything at all. M&S appeared in the 1970's, and was and is to this day applied to any tire that the Manufacturer decides. Unlike the Mountain Snowflake symbol which is regulated by a industry body or the Rubber Association of Canada which meets the severe winter driving conditions.

Good to know.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Innersoul1

I can't really give a definative review of the Blizzaks on my MDX becuase this is the first SUV I have owned (not driven). I would say that the performance yesterday was quite good and given their highway performance last week on the way back from Victoria. More than anything I was quite impressed with the AWD system on the Acura. I haven't driven a vehicle with the SH-AWD system. It performed really well on the slick and icy roads yesterday. The power distribution was fantastic also. Those not familiar with SH-AWD check the vid

• Video Link

I've not driven an MDX SH-AWD in slippery conditions but it is certainly a formidable SUV no doubt (it was Infiniti FX, Acura MDX or BMW X5 for me - the X5 was dropped first, and I went with the FX in the end for opportunistic reasons).

I know the system is very good when accelerating during a corner in dry conditions, but I'm not sure how much it would improve things in truly slippery conditions (when you're not at the peak of acceleration during a corner). The true test would be to compare the same vehicle with SH-AWD and just AWD in similar conditions. I'd suspect even regular AWD on the MDX would perform very well.

BTW - cool video!

[Ramsayfarian]

Got my winter tires slapped on today. Talk about a world of difference. It's like night and day. I also got stuck twice today, once beside Sheldon Chumir on 13th ave and again in front of my house. Nothing worse than sitting there looking like an idiot when you have $1400 of winter tires and rims sitting in your hatch.


If anyone needs tires swapped, check out Urban X in the SE, they might be able to fit you in.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

Got my winter tires slapped on today. Talk about a world of difference. It's like night and day. I also got stuck twice today, once beside Sheldon Chumir on 13th ave and again in front of my house. Nothing worse than sitting there looking like an idiot when you have $1400 of winter tires and rims sitting in your hatch.

If anyone needs tires swapped, check out Urban X in the SE, they might be able to fit you in.

Winter tires may help a very tiny bit in helping you not get stuck, but really their benefit is in braking*. Odds are, even if you had the winter tires on, you would have been stuck anyway (unless you couldn't break fast enough an therefore ended up in a snow drift).

Perhaps I've been lucky, but I've never got stuck since I moved to AWD SUVs four years ago (three of those years being without winter tires swapped in). Knock on wood!

* a special thanks to Ramsayfarian, without whom I'd never have realized that breaking is different from braking!

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Winter tires may help a very tiny bit in helping you not get stuck, but really their benefit is in breaking. Odds are, even if you had the winter tires on, you would have been stuck anyway (unless you couldn't break fast enough an therefore ended up in a snow drift).

Perhaps I've been lucky, but I've never got stuck since I moved to AWD SUVs four years ago (three of those years being without winter tires swapped in). Knock on wood!

Being that I'm functionally illiterate, I never call someone on their grammar or spelling, as there's always some pedantic twat to set one straight. But it is braking not breaking. Funny, I always thought the burbs had better schools than the inner-city.

Perhaps you were lucky or you were running all seasons or you bought really shitty winter tires.

My tires weren't all season. My guess is that they were made out of the same compound as a crazy carpet or the sole of a moonboot.

My experience has been that winter tires make a huge difference when it comes to traction and I wouldn't have almost got stuck today if I had winter tires. Know how I know? I came home and parked in the same fucking spot and was able to drive out with no problem.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

Being that I'm functionally illiterate, I never call someone on their grammar or spelling, as there's always some pedantic twat to set one straight. But it is braking not breaking.

Thanks for the correction. What would I do without you! I will fix that right away so that none of the educated get confused.

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

Funny, I always thought the burbs had better schools than the inner-city.

Certainly nothing in the burbs compares to Bow Valley College's upgrading program.

That being said, may I suggest we get back to cars?

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

Perhaps you were lucky or you were running all seasons or you bought really shitty winter tires.

My tires weren't all season. My guess is that they were made out of the same compound as a crazy carpet or the sole of a moonboot.

Good point about the nature of the tires people use year-round. My tires (that I still need to change out) are also performance tires - rated to 240km/hr (and my car can actually achieve that and better). They are also 265's, so that probably doesn't help. What does help (for not getting stuck), however, is very good all-wheel drive and traction control systems. Having good clearance is not a bad thing when snow builds up. Regarding your other query, my winter tires are Blizzaks.

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

My experience has been that winter tires make a huge difference when it comes to traction and I wouldn't have almost got stuck today if I had winter tires. Know how I know? I came home and parked in the same fucking spot and was able to drive out with no problem.

That's nice. Maybe the effect on snow and ice through the day helped, but certainly the winter tires must have helped somewhat also.

While it may not be the case with you, I find that manual transmission cars (particularly the ones with incompetent drivers who do not have good control of their emotions) also have issues.

Zoom-zoom.

[Ramsayfarian]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Thanks for the correction. What would I do without you! I will fix that right away so that none of the educated get confused.

Good point about the nature of the tires people use year-round. My tires (that I still need to change out) are also performance tires - rated to 240km/hr (and my car can actually achieve that and better). They are also 265's, so that probably doesn't help. What does help (for not getting stuck), however, is very good all-wheel drive and traction control systems. Having good clearance is not a bad thing when snow builds up. Regarding your other query, my winter tires are Blizzaks.



That's nice. Maybe the effect on snow and ice through the day helped, but certainly the winter tires must have helped somewhat also.

While it may not be the case with you, I find that manual transmission cars (particularly the ones with incompetent drivers who do not have good control of their emotions) also have issues.

Zoom-zoom.

What would you do without me? For one, you would still be unaware that a word which means: to slow down or come to a stop, is spelled brake and not break. Safe bet that from now on, every time you type that out, you'll remember me.

Please feel free to share this with your children and their children as an example of how even the superior suburbanite, on occasion, can learn from even the most ignorant urbanite.

When your children's children ask about whatever happened to me, feel free to tell them that junkies killed me for my fillings. This should help keep them away from the inner-city, drugs, and cause them to brush their teeth regularly.

Despite having an online persona of a 14 year old, I'm coming dangerously close to my 30th year of winter driving in Alberta. Being a somewhat avid snowboarder, I've driven through more alpine blizzards that I care to remember. Once drove at night, in an Integra on all seasons, with 14 twelve packs of Trad in bottles clinking away in the hatch. Through a raging blizzard, I may add.

I think I can safely say it was the tires and not a thin dusting of snow that made the difference today. It has been my personal experience that winter tires improve traction by an order of magnitude.

I don't say this to be rude, but the Blizzaks I had, were the crappiest winter tires I've ever owned. Others beg to differ, but my theory is that Blizzak's are their first or only exposure to winter tires. There is much better tires out there.

For me, my best winter tires have been Toyo's (2 different cars over a span of 6 years) and then a close second where a set of Nokian Hakkapeliittas.

[LFRENCH]

Originally Posted by suburbia

Winter tires may help a very tiny bit in helping you not get stuck, but really their benefit is in braking*. Odds are, even if you had the winter tires on, you would have been stuck anyway (unless you couldn't break fast enough an therefore ended up in a snow drift).

This isn't true at all, If you read my earlier post you would see that winter tires are designed to draw out debris from the contact patch. Add to this the ability of winter tires to remain soft at a low temperature they will help in traction under acceleration. While a more important function is braking and steering capability, this is achieved through.. you guess it maintaining traction on less than ideal surfaces.

The ability of a tire to clean itself and there by increasing traction at the contact patch is critical in snow and mud for that matter.

[suburbia]

Originally Posted by LFRENCH

This isn't true at all, If you read my earlier post you would see that winter tires are designed to draw out debris from the contact patch. Add to this the ability of winter tires to remain soft at a low temperature they will help in traction under acceleration. While a more important function is braking and steering capability, this is achieved through.. you guess it maintaining traction on less than ideal surfaces.

The ability of a tire to clean itself and there by increasing traction at the contact patch is critical in snow and mud for that matter.

Perhaps I'm wrong but it was simply based on my experience of generally not getting stuck with all-season tires since I started driving 22 years ago in 1990, and having never gotten stuck the last four years ago since when I've had SUVs (I've had two).

I do want to highlight that I'm not saying it doesn't make a difference, but it is a small difference relative to the difference good driving habits make.

Originally Posted by Ramsayfarian

Please feel free to share this with your children and their children as an example of how even the superior suburbanite, on occasion, can learn from even the most ignorant urbanite.

When your children's children ask about whatever happened to me, feel free to tell them that junkies killed me for my fillings. This should help keep them away from the inner-city, drugs, and cause them to brush their teeth regularly.

Not sure why you've inserted this urban/suburban banter. In medical circles it could be interpreted as small man's syndrome. Not sure if that's the case, or you just had a really bad day. Relax Ramsay. No one is "after you" - we were just talking winter, getting stuck and tires. That's it.

[Calgarian]

I would also have to agree that winter tires improve traction by a very noticeable amount. In temperatures like this, summer tires turn into hockey pucks and are completely useless, winter tires stay soft and grip much better. My summers completely lose traction and I get stuck any time there is a hill involved, traction control is the only thing that keeps me from sliding back, with winters its no problem.

[freeweed]

Originally Posted by Jimby

but AWD doesn't help you stop and that is why AWD and 4WD need winter tires too.

If you're needing winter tires primarily for braking distance, you don't know how to drive in winter conditions.

Winter tires are fantastic for helping grip the road for control while braking and acceleration uphill and such, but unless you're in a 1-in-100-years ice event, you should never have problems stopping in time even with bald-ass all seasons. It's just a required skill to back off a lot when it's slippery out - you can never, EVER trust your tires to magically help out. Winter tires are far from the panacea they are marketed as - especially with REAL cold temperatures that rarely hit Calgary, but cause for real entertainment when they do.

When I see the commercials gloating about their "25% shorter stopping distances", I realize they're marketing to people who really don't know how to drive safely. If 25% is the difference between safe and collision, you don't have a clue how to drive safely in the winter.

But I say this as someone who grew up with real winter driving conditions. Imagine the snowiest mountain pass, every day for 4 months. The 10-15 days of actual bad roads we see in Calgary every year make me laugh by comparison. I guess if people don't really adjust their driving behaviour that much, that 25% might actually matter.