Metro Phoenix Aviation Thread

[azliam]

Frontier adds two direct flights from Phoenix to California

Frontier Airlines is adding new direct flights from Phoenix to California.

The low-cost Denver-based carrier, which is owned by Phoenix private equity firm Indigo Partners, announced Tuesday it will start flying from Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport to Los Angeles and San Jose.

Frontier will add daily flights from Sky Harbor to Los Angeles International Airport and Norman Y. Mineta San Jose International Airport starting April 23.

“We see tremendous growth opportunities for low-cost air travel in Phoenix, and today’s expansion announcement provides significantly lower fares to key California markets,” Daniel Shurz, senior vice president of commercial for Frontier Airlines, said in a statement.

With the addition of these two routes, Frontier will offer 17 direct flights from Phoenix.

More: https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/..._news_headline

[combusean]

I'll have to consider them. Southwest has a horrible on-time record.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by combusean

I'll have to consider them. Southwest has a horrible on-time record.

Yes, they sure did. The got a horrible on-time performance. This is not good!! We dislike Southwest. I am no longer flying on Southwest Airlines.

Some airlines who is most on-time performance. Some flight is delays or canceled. Due to inclement weather.

[azliam]

Southwest to debut new Phoenix-to-Mexico flights this fall

Southwest Airlines is adding two nonstop flights between Phoenix and Mexico starting this fall.

Flights between Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport and Cabo San Lucas will be twice daily starting Oct. 8, with daily flights to Puerto Vallarta beginning that same date.

These would be the first flights for Dallas-based Southwest (NYSE: LUV) between Phoenix and Mexico. The routes are still subject to government approval but have been rolled out in the airline's flight schedule.

Sky Harbor currently has flights to several Mexico cites. Fort Worth, Texas-based American Airlines (NYSE: AAL) added a flight to Mexico in December to Hermosillo in addition to several other markets.

Mexico-based airline Volaris serves two markets as well from Phoenix.

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/..._news_headline

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by azliam

Southwest to debut new Phoenix-to-Mexico flights this fall



https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/..._news_headline

Woahhh!!! That’s huge. I wonder how they will work it. I would think they’d need to arrive in the International concourse. Then do they tow the planes back to the south side of terminal 4?

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

Woahhh!!! That’s huge. I wonder how they will work it. I would think they’d need to arrive in the International concourse. Then do they tow the planes back to the south side of terminal 4?

Yes, they will towed back to T4 south concourse. When they landed in PHX and they have go to N4 international concourse. They have go through customs.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Yes, they will towed back to T4 south concourse. When they landed in PHX and they have go to N4 international concourse. They have go through customs.

If we keep adding International flights like this we're going to need an international terminal.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by xymox

If we keep adding International flights like this we're going to need an international terminal.

The sky harbor 20 year plan is leaving the T2 area open for an international terminal in ten years.

I know that sounds like a lot but even if they started the process to design and build an international terminal today it would take probably 5 or 6 years before it was open.

So I wouldn’t be surprised if we start seeing the initial plans for an international terminal by 2023 or so

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by xymox

If we keep adding International flights like this we're going to need an international terminal.

Yes, if Southwest move to new West Terminal. They will have customs at the new terminal. American Airlines will takeover all T4 and along with codeshare partners, as well.

[xymox]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Yes, if Southwest move to new West Terminal. They will have customs at the new terminal. American Airlines will takeover all T4 and along with codeshare partners, as well.

That would be quite the expansion for American in PHX. Is the PHX 'hub' still profitable for them? Even if so - enough to take over all of T4 over the next 10 years?

[phoenixwillrise]

Originally Posted by N830MH

Yes, if Southwest move to new West Terminal. They will have customs at the new terminal. American Airlines will takeover all T4 and along with codeshare partners, as well.

But Why would they do either of those things? 1. Terminal 3 ,to the best of what has been said on this forum, has no Int'l Gates. Air Canada arrivals are pre checked in Canada for entry into the U.S.
2. Why would they tow the Southwest Planes anywhere? If the planes were being sent to and from Mexico wouldn't they also board in T4 Int'l wing and even if they were on going somewhere else from here to another U.S. City wouldn't they just drive the planes over to the other side of T4. What am I missing here? And finally they put a boat load of money into transforming a concourse in T4 for Int'l Flights why would they move that to T3?

[PHXFlyer11]

Originally Posted by phoenixwillrise

But Why would they do either of those things? 1. Terminal 3 ,to the best of what has been said on this forum, has no Int'l Gates. Air Canada arrivals are pre checked in Canada for entry into the U.S.
2. Why would they tow the Southwest Planes anywhere? If the planes were being sent to and from Mexico wouldn't they also board in T4 Int'l wing and even if they were on going somewhere else from here to another U.S. City wouldn't they just drive the planes over to the other side of T4. What am I missing here? And finally they put a boat load of money into transforming a concourse in T4 for Int'l Flights why would they move that to T3?

You are right in that they probably won’t tow them. They’re probably just board there. But he is right in West Terminal. That is not T3. That is a future massive new terminal in the master plan.

[xymox]

btw, JSX suspended operations out of OAK to PHX and OAK to SEA - starting tomorrow. I had a couple flights cancelled in April as a result. They seem to be operating all the other routes as far as I can tell. It's related to Coronavirus and they noted it is temporary in nature - but no date on when they will resume.

[phoenixwillrise]

Originally Posted by PHXFlyer11

You are right in that they probably won’t tow them. They’re probably just board there. But he is right in West Terminal. That is not T3. That is a future massive new terminal in the master plan.

That is a ways away correct?

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by phoenixwillrise

That is a ways away correct?

Oh yeah a potential West Terminal wont be done until 2030 at the earliest.

Of course another decade or 15 years and Phoenix will add another 1 million residents most likely, as well as an additional several hundred thousand around the State. By then the needs for a more dedicated international terminal/area will be much more in the 2030's than now.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by xymox

That would be quite the expansion for American in PHX. Is the PHX 'hub' still profitable for them? Even if so - enough to take over all of T4 over the next 10 years?

Exactly! They still have profitable. I'm sure they will expanded more new domestic and international flights. I was hoping they add more new nonstop flight from PHX-FCO/FRA/CDG/HND/SYD/ZRH/TLV.

Originally Posted by Obadno

Oh yeah a potential West Terminal wont be done until 2030 at the earliest.

Of course another decade or 15 years and Phoenix will add another 1 million residents most likely, as well as an additional several hundred thousand around the State. By then the needs for a more dedicated international terminal/area will be much more in the 2030's than now.

Exactly! This is for West Terminal. You would think some non-airline partners will move to West Terminal. Volaris, Condor, Eurowings will relocated to new West Terminal for next couple decade later.

[ASU Diablo]

Well this is depressing...Sky Harbor was on pace for a record year and now it may take years to fully recover to pre-COVID-19 levels.

Before coronavirus, Phoenix airport was on track for huge growth

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...-on-track.html

Before the coronavirus outbreak across the United States and the call for social distancing that slammed the travel and tourism industries, Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport was on track for another record breaking year, according to data released Monday by the city of Phoenix Aviation Department.

For the month of February, before there was a dramatic decrease in passengers in March, the region’s primary airport reported a total of 3,779,737 people flew into or out of Sky Harbor, a 6.4% increase from the same month in 2019.

The leap in passengers in February comes after a record setting 2019 and a 4% year-over-year increase in January.

A total of 15,752 commercial planes landed at Sky Harbor in February, which was up 7.9% from February last year.

Three of Sky Harbor’s four largest carriers – American Airlines Inc. (Nasdaq: AAL), Delta Air Lines Inc. (NYSE: DAL) and United Airlines Inc. (NYSE: UAL) – recorded an increase in total passengers compared with February 2019.American, the largest airline operating in Phoenix, reported more than 120,000 more passengers and a 7.4% increase in landings than the same month in 2019.

Both Delta and United reported double digit February passenger growth from 2019 to 2020 — 17.8% and 10.5% respectfully.

Southwest Airlines Co. (NYSE: LUV), Sky Harbor’s second largest carrier, saw its passenger count drop by 1.6% year over year. This follows Southwest’s downward trend in 2019, considering the airline has canceled hundreds of flights due to the grounding of the Boeing 737 MAX jet, including many to Phoenix.

Phoenix’s fifth and sixth largest carriers — Alaska Airlines (NYSE: ALK) and Frontier Airlines, respectively — reported double-digit growth during January. Those airlines have smaller operations in Phoenix than American or Southwest, but still showed significant growth.

It is all but certain that March’s numbers, which won’t be made public until the end of April, will show a dramatic drop in passengers at Sky Harbor. March is usually the airport’s busiest month, but record numbers of passengers have canceled reservations and airlines have canceled hundreds of flights.

February’s report shows how well the airport, industry and economy in general was doing before the coronavirus outbreak. It was the first full month the new north concourse in Terminal 3 was open and Terminal 2 was closed. A slideshow of the new Terminal can be seen below.

Hard-hit Phoenix airports look forward to federal assistance as revenue dries up

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...o-federal.html

Jim Bennett didn’t mince words when telling Phoenix City Council how bad things are right now for Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport and the airline industry because of the coronavirus outbreak.

“This will be the most severe shock to the aviation business and Sky Harbor Airport that we have ever experienced,” said Bennett, the city's aviation director, on March 26. “Our current modeling is forecasting that sometime around 2023 we should return to our passenger levels that we experience last year, in 2019.”

With calls for social distancing, hotels and resorts closing down, major events being canceled or postponed and a number of other factors related to slowing the spread of the disease, the airline industry has taken a major hit. Revenue and passenger numbers have seen dramatic declines.

Bennett said if you combined the effects of past events that impacted the airport’s business — including the Great Recession in 2008, the Sept. 11 attacks in 2001, the Dot-Com Bubble in the late 1990s and even the 1973 Oil Crisis — they wouldn’t be near as bad as the impact of COVID-19.

While airport revenue has pretty much dried up, Sky Harbor will not stop any of its major capital improvement projects, including the expansion of the Sky Train and the new Southwest Airlines concourse in Terminal 4.

Bennett told City Council those projects have been funded either through federal grants or bonds, so the loss of revenue is not impacting them. Also, legally speaking, with how the airport got the funds for these projects, it would be illegal to use those that money for anything else. The current capital improvement projects at Sky Harbor employ a total of 3,555 full-time construction workers, according to Bennett.

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by ASU Diablo

Well this is depressing...Sky Harbor was on pace for a record year and now it may take years to fully recover to pre-COVID-19 levels.

Before coronavirus, Phoenix airport was on track for huge growth

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...-on-track.html


Hard-hit Phoenix airports look forward to federal assistance as revenue dries up

https://www.bizjournals.com/phoenix/...o-federal.html

I dont understand this forgone conclusion that things are not going to recover? People would still be flying normally if not for this and once its over they will pretty much resume flying just like they were in February

[exit2lef]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I dont understand this forgone conclusion that things are not going to recover? People would still be flying normally if not for this and once its over they will pretty much resume flying just like they were in February

A few reasons why a travel recovery will take a long time:

Restrictions on travel, especially international travel, will be among the last to be relaxed. Even as states and cities return to normal, they'll be wary of new outbreaks if the virus is re-introduced by travelers from areas where it is still a problem.

Even if all travel restrictions are relaxed, there will be a question of who can afford to travel if there is high unemployment.

My guess is that some meetings that have moved to video conferences will never go back to face-to-face, even in the absence of public health concerns.

Many conference and conventions are planned (and cancelled if necessary) well in advance. I'm seeing conferences I would normally consider attending in the summer being scuttled now due to the uncertainty about conditions in a few months.

If airlines have laid off employees and cancelled orders for aircraft, it will take time to return to normal operations even if demand rebounds quickly.

Will it take as long as 2023? Maybe not, but it will take years rather than months.

[ASU Diablo]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I dont understand this forgone conclusion that things are not going to recover? People would still be flying normally if not for this and once its over they will pretty much resume flying just like they were in February

And I don't understand why you think the economy will bounce back like if nothing happened within days of COVID-19 being contained (and who knows by when)? All the economic experts are pretty much saying this will trigger another recession plus the latest report from Goldman Sachs states GDP will shrink by 34% in Q2 plus unemployment will rise to 15% in the summer. They do note a surge in GDP in Q3 and hopefully that's accurate. Apart from the items exit2lef listed above, the economy will be shit and people will be too broke to fly. I agree that 2023 may be too far out but hopefully late 2021/early 2022 at the latest.