Washington DC: Rail transit

[RCDC]

Pics of the canopy design at dupont circle, posted on a construction wall around the perimeter, but it's been sitting like this for quite some time.

[Busy Bee]

Originally Posted by RCDC

Curious as to why? Personally I prefer being above ground.

Long term, the elevated guideway will be more expensive to maintain, more of an impediment to the proper urban design Tysons needs to become a real city and ultimately, because it was deemed cheaper, Tysons will be saddled with a visually intrusive, massive piece of infrastructure acting as a barrier to future urbanization. As a rule of thumb, heavy rail should pretty much always be in either a tunnel, an open cut/trench or a median or private row. Immense, overwhelming elevated structures should ideally be avoided at all costs, but the all costs part usually takes priority to the detriment of long-term sustainability.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Long term, the elevated guideway will be more expensive to maintain, more of an impediment to the proper urban design Tysons needs to become a real city and ultimately, because it was deemed cheaper, Tysons will be saddled with a visually intrusive, massive piece of infrastructure acting as a barrier to future urbanization. As a rule of thumb, heavy rail should pretty much always be in either a tunnel, an open cut/trench or a median or private row. Immense, overwhelming elevated structures should ideally be avoided at all costs, but the all costs part usually takes priority to the detriment of long-term sustainability.

Save for the stations that I've used in NYC and Atlanta, I've always felt an aversion to elevated heavy rail. I look at it and almost immediately assume that its service must be mediocre. Plus, the space it takes up defeats the purpose of providing heavy rail transit. Imposing structure, obviously, take up space, limiting the ability of surround area to densify.

It'll be interesting to see how Tysons develops around this stations. Though more expensive, the subterranian stations would have produce a vastly more efficient and walkable environment. Just another opportunity wasted...

[urbanview]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Long term, the elevated guideway will be more expensive to maintain, more of an impediment to the proper urban design Tysons needs to become a real city and ultimately, because it was deemed cheaper, Tysons will be saddled with a visually intrusive, massive piece of infrastructure acting as a barrier to future urbanization. As a rule of thumb, heavy rail should pretty much always be in either a tunnel, an open cut/trench or a median or private row. Immense, overwhelming elevated structures should ideally be avoided at all costs, but the all costs part usually takes priority to the detriment of long-term sustainability.

The tracks are no problem and no impediment for the future urbanization of Tysons. There is plenty of room to build in Tysons and the viaduct is not going to stop that. Bridges will be fine.

Tysons will never be some kind of urban utopia like a real downtown of a city ever, cause it's bisected by very wide busy roads that are anti-urban. The rail-line being tunnel or viaduct is not the main determinant. The street pattern is. It's a suburban hell hole.

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by Busy Bee

Tysons will be saddled with a visually intrusive, massive piece of infrastructure acting as a barrier to future urbanization.

Well, that's already there in the form of Leesburg Pike, which the rail runs down the middle of. Greensboro station does create a solid barrier due to the tracks going below ground but otherwise I don't see it having much impact. Tysons is pretty horrible, but the rail gives it a sense of place which it lacked before, imo.

Originally Posted by SpawnOfVulcan

Plus, the space it takes up defeats the purpose of providing heavy rail transit. Imposing structure, obviously, take up space, limiting the ability of surround area to densify.

Not sure what you mean. There are plenty of elevated rails throughout cities around the US and world.

Originally Posted by urbanview

The rail-line being tunnel or viaduct is not the main determinant. The street pattern is. It's a suburban hell hole.

Indeed, but it is getting marginal improvements. One of them is removing the right turn lane that swoops at intersections, which drivers treat as an off-ramp and is very dangerous to pedestrians.

[cambron J]

Tentative opening date announced.

"The Silver Line to Dulles International Airport and Loudoun County, Virginia, will open on or about July 16, 2020, at least if everything goes according to plan from here on out, the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority said."

First potential opening date set for Silver Line into Loudoun County
08 05 2019 1657
Max Smith
WTOP FM 103.5

If anybody wants to bet on the exact date, the date I am taking for the betting pool is 07 25 2020 as that date is 6 years minus a day after the opening of Phase I.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by cambron J

Tentative opening date announced.

"The Silver Line to Dulles International Airport and Loudoun County, Virginia, will open on or about July 16, 2020, at least if everything goes according to plan from here on out, the Metropolitan Washington Airports Authority said."

First potential opening date set for Silver Line into Loudoun County
08 05 2019 1657
Max Smith
WTOP FM 103.5

If anybody wants to bet on the exact date, the date I am taking for the betting pool is 07 25 2020 as that date is 6 years minus a day after the opening of Phase I.

I know things have changed significantly since the transcontinental railroad was built, but...

They built a railroad across the entire country in the time it takes "phase 2" to be built outside our nation's capital. Insane. We all deserve better.

[cambron J]

jtown,man
I know things have changed significantly since the transcontinental railroad was built, but...

They built a railroad across the entire country in the time it takes "phase 2" to be built outside our nation's capital. Insane. We all deserve better.

The two companies that built the transcontinental railroad had armies of laborers, were paid by the mile, did not have to install sophisticated power and communication systems, did not build massive passenger stations every few miles and used locally sourced materials, exception being rail and spikes.

[Busy Bee]

deleted snark

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by cambron J

jtown,man
I know things have changed significantly since the transcontinental railroad was built, but...

They built a railroad across the entire country in the time it takes "phase 2" to be built outside our nation's capital. Insane. We all deserve better.

The two companies that built the transcontinental railroad had armies of laborers, were paid by the mile, did not have to install sophisticated power and communication systems, did not build massive passenger stations every few miles and used locally sourced materials, exception being rail and spikes.

I think I made it clear that I understand there are many reasons why things couldn't go as fast as they did 150 years ago. But I think the comparison is still important. If anyone is satisfied by the price and time it takes these projects to come to life...I really don't know what to say. It's insane.

It's not like I compared a railway from Baltimore to DC built in 1870 to the Silver line Phase 2. I compared it to a rail line that spans the entire country.

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by jtown,man

I know things have changed significantly since the transcontinental railroad was built, but...

In addition to what cambron J mentioned they didn't have to worry about what (or who) was in the way. The silver line is running through existing ROWs and with that there's temporary or permanent lane re-alignment and all the things done to minimize disruption or hazards. Other projects require land acquisition and more drastic changes to existing infrastructure.

If anyone is satisfied by the price and time it takes these projects to come to life...I really don't know what to say. It's insane.

The costs are insane; pork and kickbacks.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by RCDC

In addition to what cambron J mentioned they didn't have to worry about what (or who) was in the way. The silver line is running through existing ROWs and with that there's temporary or permanent lane re-alignment and all the things done to minimize disruption or hazards. Other projects require land acquisition and more drastic changes to existing infrastructure.



The costs are insane; pork and kickbacks.

They had to deal with the Rockies lol

I am not a simpleton making this example wondering why we can't get this built in 2 weeks or something. I just thought it was an interesting comparison and that we should expect more. That is all.

[RCDC]

No offense but it's a dumb comparison. Apart from both being rails they have little in common. If it were a transcontinental road that wouldn't change anything.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by RCDC

No offense but it's a dumb comparison. Apart from both being rails they have little in common. If it were a transcontinental road that wouldn't change anything.

It is a dumb comparison. The Silver line is building two miles a year...in an area which isn't exactly Manhatten.

[aquablue]

Seems very Virginia/Tysons orientated overall. I'm highly disappointed that some kind of through running tracks were not provided. This train will take too long to get into DC for most business people and others who can't sit on a train for an hour. The opportunity was missed for an express service, and a local service, but typical cost savings won the day. Go to Europe or Asia, and you'll see how a real airport-city express train can be done. DC is the regions core, it's being given the short end of the stick here. Tysons will benefit from this far more.

[RCDC]

Originally Posted by aquablue

Seems very Virginia/Tysons orientated overall. I'm highly disappointed that some kind of through running tracks were not provided.

That would bypass 8 stations only, not much time savings there.

Not sure we have any grounds for complaints, given Virginia pretty much funded the whole project...

[jmecklenborg]

Originally Posted by RCDC

That would bypass 8 stations only, not much time savings there.

Not sure we have any grounds for complaints, given Virginia pretty much funded the whole project...

An 8-station bypass = over 15 minutes in time savings.

The thing that needs to happen is for the silver line to deflect from the orange line right before it joins the blue line and cross DC in its own new tunnel to Dupont Circle, the convention center, Union Station, and then rejoin the orange line east of RFK stadium. Meanwhile, a silver line bypass would deflect from the Dulles Toll Road just north of Tyson's and proceed eastward for 5~ miles in an express tunnel to Dupont Circle, where it would join the new silver line subway. That would skip 10~ stations, saving about 25 minutes for the train ride in from the airport.

[jtown,man]

Originally Posted by jmecklenborg

An 8-station bypass = over 15 minutes in time savings.

The thing that needs to happen is for the silver line to deflect from the orange line right before it joins the blue line and cross DC in its own new tunnel to Dupont Circle, the convention center, Union Station, and then rejoin the orange line east of RFK stadium. Meanwhile, a silver line bypass would deflect from the Dulles Toll Road just north of Tyson's and proceed eastward for 5~ miles in an express tunnel to Dupont Circle, where it would join the new silver line subway. That would skip 10~ stations, saving about 25 minutes for the train ride in from the airport.

And all this would cost how much?

[maru2501]

train to airport and absolute necessity

[urbanview]

They should have built bypass tracks at the stations, I'm sure it could have been possible. I think the future will show that Virginia will get most of the benefit and DC will fall further behind in the business game. Tysons will be the place where the major business growth will be occurring, with easy access to an international airport, while DC will remain status quo. In mu opinion, DC missed a major opportunity to not go aggressively after a fast Dulles link that could have really been a great boon for business and more.