(YEG) Edmonton International Airport Part 4 (October 2023)

[JakeLRS]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

Putting the pressure on Flair with that Nashville Flight.

Daily Atlanta is pretty cool.

Not only pressure, but it looks like they are trying to have a dead-on fight with Flair. WS BNA flights are on the same day as F8s.
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F8 YEG-BNA commences May 05 with 14:15 departures from YEG running Sundays and Thursdays

WS YEG-BNA commences May 02 with 09:35 departures from YEG also running Sundays and Thursdays.
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Flair's Nashville service only runs May-June (25 total departures, 2x weekly), it definitely won't be extended now. Given how we usually see WS having better transborder loads than F8, WS will have no problem competing and probably destroying flair. Flair's LF on BNA this year was 69% in May, 68% in June.

[ace.yyc]

The new YEG routes were pretty much set in stone since July/August, I told y'all to have some patience instead of attacking your airport authority cause good things were coming.

More is coming.

Originally Posted by JakeLRS

Flair's LF on BNA this year was 69% in May, 68% in June.

Yeah "pressure" is an understatement. I'd be surprised if this results in anything other than F8 exiting the route... because WS will quietly leave after S24 if they're running at sub-70% LF.

Originally Posted by YegFan

AC isn't fully committed to the SFO route because it runs a tiny aircraft

AC's YEG-SFO is 70% cnx or better which means WS entering doesn't automatically mean the nail in the coffin.

Regarding commitment, I'd argue the opposite... that their decision to run the correctly sized aircraft so the route is profitable is a sign of commitment. Anything larger and they likely wouldn't be year-round. If the options are a) summer mainline-only or b)year-round Jazz, which would you prefer for the sake of YEG overall?

[Rocket252]

^ The CRJ-900s AC uses appear to be new so I assume they will keep that model of aircraft if year round. Would be nice if they used an A220-300 or the E195-E2 that Porter uses.

[JakeLRS]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

The new YEG routes were pretty much set in stone since July/August, I told y'all to have some patience instead of attacking your airport authority cause good things were coming.

More is coming.

YEG-KEF lawl. I can definitely see that happening.

Personally, I'm just waiting for WS to pick up YEG-YHM.

[ace.yyc]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

^ The CRJ-900s AC uses appear to be new so I assume they will keep that model of aircraft if year round. Would be nice if they used an A220-300 or the E195-E2 that Porter uses.

For sure, and I get what he's saying; I'm not the biggest CRJ fan either though the newer 900s are obviously worlds ahead of the old 200s.

However, without the RJ there's a good chance YEG-SFO is either not daily or doesn't run in winter at all... both of which are highly detrimental for a route that relies on connections.

[YegFan]

What you are saying is confusing. If WS relies on zero connections at sfo, then AC is missing out on so many O&D traffic which make more money as you know.

Either way, all aim saying, let's hope that both flights stick around.

[JakeLRS]

Originally Posted by YegFan

What you are saying is confusing. If WS relies on zero connections at sfo, then AC is missing out on so many O&D traffic which make more money as you know.

Either way, all aim saying, let's hope that both flights stick around.

I keep forgetting Flair ran YEG-SFO this past spring. They had decent loads once service normalized. WS shouldn't have a problem filling their seats.

Flair's SFO Loads for 2023

November 2022: 56.9%
March: 59.2%
April: 77.9%
May: 76.1%
June: 68.2%

Flair axed YEG-SFO.

[Coldrsx]

ATL is a game changer indeed for east coast...and beyond connections.

Nice.

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by YegFan

Hopefully not a zero sum game.....AC isn't fully committed to the SFO route because it runs a tiny aircraft while Flair's schedule to BNA is strange.

Time will tell if AC and Flair keep those routes now that they have competition.

Fully committed? Haven't they been running this route for a couple of years? I thought this route was started based on lobbying from the local business community. Air Canada stepped up. WestJet didn't. Something to do with IT and the many businesses in California if I remember. Of course the CRJ has 12 business class seats vs WestJet's 0 business class seats on the 737. While it is great that WS is adding service, they are doing it purely to get AC out in similar fashion on the BNA route. With Star Alliance connections at SFO and some business connections I hope AC sticks around. Business flights improve our economy not one-way YEG-SFO leisure traffic. For the MSP and ATL routes, I do commend WS. Let's hope the ATL route sticks to year round.

[ace.yyc]

Originally Posted by LO 044

Of course the CRJ has 12 business class seats vs WestJet's 0 business class seats on the 737.

Not sure if you maybe haven't flown WestJet in a while but all WestJet 737 have been upgraded to 12 actual domestic business class seats, pretty much identical seat to the Air Canada MAX seat. It's a nice seat, no one would take the CRJ seat over WestJet's new seat with all other things being equal. You may be thinking of WestJet's previous "Plus" seat that was still six abreast with the middle seats blocked.

With the WestJet flight running only seasonally, I'd be surprised if AC can't maintain the Jazz flight but we'll have to see.

[YegFan]

Originally Posted by JakeLRS

I keep forgetting Flair ran YEG-SFO this past spring. They had decent loads once service normalized. WS shouldn't have a problem filling their seats.

Flair's SFO Loads for 2023

November 2022: 56.9%
March: 59.2%
April: 77.9%
May: 76.1%
June: 68.2%

Flair axed YEG-SFO.

which really begs the question....why does AC run the RJ on the route if others can fill the plane. They should have already started using the A220 IMO

[ace.yyc]

Originally Posted by YegFan

which really begs the question....why does AC run the RJ on the route if others can fill the plane.

It doesn't beg that question whatsoever. Look at the fares. The AC flight is 70% cnx or better. They are after higher yielding pax and cnx.

The A220 is better used elsewhere in peak season. Pretty simple.

The others can't fill the plane in the winter... they aren't even flying it.

Lastly... those F8 LF's are terrible compared to WestJet's average transborder load factor of 80% or better. Given their fares and costs, F8 needs to do far better than 68% on YEG-SFO before they're throwing a pizza party.

[s211]

Originally Posted by Rocket252

^ The CRJ-900s AC uses appear to be new so I assume they will keep that model of aircraft if year round.

Shudder. What, did they run short of piper cubs?

[ace.yyc]

Do any of you actually hate the RJ to the extent that you'd one-stop it through YVR or are we just talking for the sake of talking

[LO 044]

Originally Posted by ace.yyc

Not sure if you maybe haven't flown WestJet in a while but all WestJet 737 have been upgraded to 12 actual domestic business class seats, pretty much identical seat to the Air Canada MAX seat. It's a nice seat, no one would take the CRJ seat over WestJet's new seat with all other things being equal. You may be thinking of WestJet's previous "Plus" seat that was still six abreast with the middle seats blocked.

With the WestJet flight running only seasonally, I'd be surprised if AC can't maintain the Jazz flight but we'll have to see.

Yes I definitely missed the memo. I read that WestJet doesn't offer a warm meal for business class flights below 2.5 hours? Is that similar for AC? I just find the WestJet overall business product so poor relative to most not just AC's. Poor alliance connection options, poor lounges or lack there of and so on. It's been mentioned on multiple forums by people that fly business class more than me. Like you said, even the fact that WestJet's flight isn't year round means it's a leisure route add. Still better than nothing. I think Gate 88 has cobwebs all over it so any transborder add is a plus.

And to chime in on the survey, I would take the CRJ over any connection.

[Rocket252]

We took CRJ to SFO when they restarted the service a few years ago. It was fine for the short hops under 3 hours. If your a big person it may be tight but they do have business class.

[ace.yyc]

Originally Posted by LO 044

Yes I definitely missed the memo. I read that WestJet doesn't offer a warm meal for business class flights below 2.5 hours? Is that similar for AC? I just find the WestJet overall business product so poor relative to most not just AC's. Poor alliance connection options, poor lounges or lack there of and so on. It's been mentioned on multiple forums by people that fly business class more than me.

I think WestJet's lack of connectivity, lounges and just general competency do place them behind AC but strictly speaking or the hard product in J, it's literally the same seat as AC. I would rank WestJet 787 business seat and overall experience including the YYC lounge to be ahead of AC in fact, and among the best in NA.

[Base]

It's interesting to see Westjet going after Flair on BNA as if it is almost defending it's turf. That connection advantage Westjet enjoys here because Flair & Air Canada aren't able to supplement local demand.

If Westjet indeed flips a few seasonals to year round and increases a few frequencies when the next sched comes out I would be on the verge of saying YEG has moved from "focus city" to "reliever hub" status in their eyes.

I don't expect much reaction from Air Canada but interesting to see what, if anything, Flair answers with.

[urbanroo]

Any chance Westjet will have some sort of sale to kick off the new routes? I'd like to go to New York in June. The cheapest is through YYC at $328 oneway, followed by many YYZ options in the high $300s. Through Atlanta costs $995 one-way, which is just crazy. Going through Minneapolis is $487--still more than I want to pay when traveling on my own dime with family.

[thenoflyzone]

https://www.aeroroutes.com/eng/231109-wsns24us

No US pre-clearance on the flight to ATL it seems.

Edmonton – Atlanta eff 29APR24 1 daily 737-700
WS1902 YEG0045 – 0706ATL 73W D
WS1029 ATL0905 – 1150YEG 73W D

Edmonton – Nashville eff 02MAY24 2 weekly 737-700/-800 (Swoop previously planned to offer this service in 2022)
WS1420 YEG0935 – 1424BNA 737 47
WS1421 BNA1515 – 1829YEG 737 47