Can Niagara Falls (NY) grow again?

[J. Will]

http://www.theatlanticcities.com/job...ow-again/2257/

In a state of decline since the 1960s, Niagara Falls, New York, has seen its population drop in half, from a peak of 102,394 down to 50,193 today.

Once Niagara Falls' population drops under 50,000 it will no longer qualify as a city, at least as far as the department of Housing and Urban Development is concerned. That distinction would lead to Niagara Falls losing its HUD status as an entitlement community. It could also affect the level of assistance the city receives from New York State.

But beyond this outside-the-box housing strategy, a series of initiatives have been underway for the last 10 years in Niagara Falls, all with the aim of making the city a more attractive place to live. So far, the results have been mixed.

While the casino offers a fair variety of entertainment options, it tends to exist as an island, with vacant lots and surface parking never far from it. Ten years since its initial opening, the casino has failed to generate spin-off development either by the Senecas or by developers along its surrounding parcels.

What a short walk east of the Seneca Niagara Casino, along Falls Street, looks like. Via Google Maps.

[miketoronto]

I was just in Niagara Falls with some forumers, and we can not understand why Niagara Falls, NY is in the shape it is in. Yes they lost industry. But they also have a natural wonder of the world which attracts millions of people a year.
And the excuse that the Canadian side gets more tourists and the NY side not as much is such an excuse. No matter what there are tourists there, and they should be able to better tap into that market. But they don't, and the area right near the falls aside from the State Park, is dismal.

[Chicago103]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

I was just in Niagara Falls with some forumers, and we can not understand why Niagara Falls, NY is in the shape it is in. Yes they lost industry. But they also have a natural wonder of the world which attracts millions of people a year.
And the excuse that the Canadian side gets more tourists and the NY side not as much is such an excuse. No matter what there are tourists there, and they should be able to better tap into that market. But they don't, and the area right near the falls aside from the State Park, is dismal.

Niagara Falls, New York is an embarrassment to the United States, having re-entered the US there from Canada last time I was there it made the USA seem like a second world country. I think it is what you said, most people who only visit the New York side are just using it as a day trip or stop on the way to somewhere else whereas those wishing to make it an overnight trip or vacation stay in Canada but there is no reason why it has to be that way. I actually wonder if the increased border security and necessity of passport for US citizens to re-enter the USA from Canada will actually boost Niagara Falls, New York's overnight tourism, after all it is now cheaper to just stay in New York if you don't have a US passport and don't want to pay for one just to go to Niagara Falls.

Actually the whole Lake Erie corridor from Niagara Falls, New York to Detroit, Michigan is what I like to call the "super rust belt" with cities like Niagara Falls, Buffalo, Cleveland, Toledo and Detroit, by comparison Chicago is an example of the normal rust belt. The Detroit-Windsor crossing is another embarrassment and considering it is the only other crossing I have ever used to enter Canada or return to the US every single time I make a border crossing I either enter or leave the US via a severely deteriorated city to/from a comparatively much better Canadian city.

[MolsonExport]

Tourism is far from being a sufficient basis for reinvigorating the economy. Most tourist-related jobs are low-wage earning. Niagara Falls, Ontario has an extremely decrepit and decaying downtown about 4kms north of the Falls. The dynamic portions are limited to an extremly narrow strip extending about 10-150 metres inland from the Niagara River, from the Horseshoe falls to about 200 metres north of the American Falls. The rest is shite.

[Dr Nevergold]

^^The Buffalo-Niagara region isn't anything like Detroit, and the poverty here is nothing compared with what you find in South Chicago. So everything is relative. For the most part, the suburbs here are as wealthy as you find anywhere else in America, or more so. If you're not in Niagara Falls or Buffalo's east side the region is pretty average America and the city of Buffalo is actually quite nice (and very gentrified) in the older neighborhoods. Niagara Falls, however, has a lot of work to do.

Niagara Falls USA is a disaster for many reasons. The chemical corridor along the Robert Moses parkway is still there, it is as industrial today as it was 50 years ago.

Otherwise, Niagara Falls has another problem entirely: civic NIMBY groups keeping the city from progress whenever there is an investment to tear down a city block combined with a lack of money from the collapsed industrial base. It also seems as if when Niagara Falls USA gets a pot of money to do something, they completely waste it in projects that really don't enhance the city. For example, they are spending tens of millions of dollars to tear down the Robert Moses parkway and convert it into a more boulevard like setting. Sure, it sounds better on paper, but wouldn't just repaving the old parkway and razing some neighborhoods with the same funds and funding a program to have developers rebuild tourist centric buildings and hotels be a better idea?

With that having been said, there has been progress in Niagara Falls. The downtown on the US side has come a long, long way from what I remember it when I first came to this region 10 years ago. A matter of fact, the new business district between the falls and the Seneca Niagara casino is quite a charmful area now, and spans several city blocks. The entire old downtown core has been renovated, and for only 50,000 people its rather impressive.

As others have said, since Niagara Falls, Canada is such a resoundingly beautiful city its easy to just cross the border and forget the NY side exists for most tourists, so that factors in as well.

[niwell]

Originally Posted by MolsonExport

Tourism is far from being a sufficient basis for reinvigorating the economy. Most tourist-related jobs are low-wage earning. Niagara Falls, Ontario has an extremely decrepit and decaying downtown about 4kms north of the Falls. The dynamic portions are limited to an extremly narrow strip extending about 10-150 metres inland from the Niagara River, from the Horseshoe falls to about 200 metres north of the American Falls. The rest is shite.

Downtown NF certainly used to be decrepit, but this isn't really the case anymore. It has been improving significantly over the past 5 years or so. Last I drove through was about a year ago and while there were some vacancies the area seemed quite nice. The BIA has done a great job with streetscape improvements and the like too.

Check on google maps streetview - the images are from Sept 2009 and even then things are looking pretty decent:

http://goo.gl/maps/EdCW


The American side is pretty grim however and a surprising culture shock. I'll say one thing though - shopping in the Wal-mart supercentre is an incredible confidence booster. I don't think I've ever felt so well dressed and attractive, especially compared to where I work and go out in Toronto. Can't wait to go on a road trip next weekend (seriously).

[eternallyme]

Niagara Falls, Ontario is overrated IMO. Once away from the falls, it is in almost as bad shape.

I do think it is time to think outside the box. Maybe developers could build things like massive theme parks on the NY side?

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by eternallyme

Niagara Falls, Ontario is overrated IMO. Once away from the falls, it is in almost as bad shape.

I do think it is time to think outside the box. Maybe developers could build things like massive theme parks on the NY side?

I would have to majorly disagree. Niagara Falls, Ontario may not be as pretty away from the falls. But it is not a city in decline or decay. For the most part, all the residential areas are in tact, and the city is growing in population. Family incomes are above the provincial average, and it is just your typical suburbanish city.

The old downtown used to be decayed, but that has nothing to do with the city's economy or design. It has to do with the opening of Niagara Square Mall in a small city which could only support either a mall or downtown. The mall won out.

Downtown Niagara Falls, Ontario has turned around because a developer bought the entire stretch of the downtown Queen Street corridor, and is upgrading and taking care of leasing for the whole street.

Niagara Falls, New York has their downtown right next to the falls, and there really is no excuse for the sorry state it is in. Something is wrong when you have vacant hotels sitting next to a natural wonder of the world.

[Roadcruiser1]

From what I can pull up Niagara Falls, NY has very few job opportunities and a majority of the jobs available are low paying jobs that are close to the poverty line. Unless if you bring in new jobs that will attract people you are going to see Niagara Falls stagnate and decline even further by the time of the next Census. I suggest that they build office buildings and attract financial companies and tourist companies to locate into these buildings to attract white collar workers into Niagara Falls. They will contribute to the economy and eventually it will trickle down to the people that are there now.

[miketoronto]

Originally Posted by Roadcruiser1

From what I can pull up Niagara Falls, NY has very few job opportunities and a majority of the jobs available are low paying jobs that are close to the poverty line. Unless if you bring in new jobs that will attract people you are going to see Niagara Falls stagnate and decline even further by the time of the next Census. I suggest that they build office buildings and attract financial companies and tourist companies to locate into these buildings to attract white collar workers into Niagara Falls. They will contribute to the economy and eventually it will trickle down to the people that are there now.

But one has to ask why the city can't attract jobs and use an asset(the falls) they have to attract business. You have to ask this question even more when you look at the surrounding suburbs which are doing just fine and have jobs, good incomes, quality of life, etc.

It is the same with Atlantic City, New Jersey. Go down the coast south of Atlantic City, and every beach side city and town is a well kept and popular weekend travel destination. Atlantic City on the other hand is struggling even with casinos. One has to ask why a city with so many assets can't revive. And it is the same for Niagara Falls. It has a huge asset and it is not using it very well.

[jd3189]

Originally Posted by miketoronto

Niagara Falls, New York has their downtown right next to the falls, and there really is no excuse for the sorry state it is in. Something is wrong when you have vacant hotels sitting next to a natural wonder of the world.

Most Americans don't really care if a great natural wonder is nearby. If that was the case, Arizona would be a more visited state just because of the Grand Canyon.

[brickell]

Does anyone go to the falls anymore? I could see how it might have been a pretty big regional draw at some point, but the world is a lot more accessible now that it was in the 1950s.

[J. Will]

Originally Posted by brickell

Does anyone go to the falls anymore? I could see how it might have been a pretty big regional draw at some point, but the world is a lot more accessible now that it was in the 1950s.

No, other than some 20 million tourists per year, nobody goes there.

Your question is ridiculous. You think they'd have built all those huge new highrise hotels looking over the falls if nobody went there anymore?

[MolsonExport]

Clifton Hill is most def the biggest piece of cheese in Canada.

[brickell]

Huge? New? Are there any on the American side? I honestly have no idea, that's why I asked. All I've heard in the last 20 years is how poorly the city is doing. But 20M (if accurate) would be significantly more than Disneyland sees in a year.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by brickell

Huge? New? Are there any on the American side? I honestly have no idea, that's why I asked.

There is only one very large newer hotel on the U.S. side, though the two best hotels are both renovations of older buildings.

I stayed at the Giacomo Plaza, a boutique hotel near the Falls (one of the two renovated office buildings), and it was quite nice. I was there for business, but it seemed like most folks there were falls tourists.

I drove around the city a bit, and it didn't seem that bad. Certainly nothing like traditional Rust Belt places like Gary, East St. Louis, Flint, etc.

It looked like typical somewhat worse-for-wear Great Lakes working class small town, same as most places from Wisconsin to Western NY. There's a pretty island park that is really world-class.

Downtown, actually seemed to be on the upswing. The main commercial street (maybe it was called Main Street?) had a number of new restaurants/bars, and obvious renovation activity for new restaurants. I ate at some panini place and all the other patrons seemed to be Europeans or Indians (maybe the tourist visas don't allow you to cross into Canada?).

The park area (closest to the Falls) is very nice. Seems much nicer (at least from a naturalistic perspective) than the Canadian side.

The downtown section that needs major improvement is the portion between the Main Street strip, the casino area, and the Falls themselves. There's a few blocks between these attractions, with tons of parking lots and the like. This was kind of a dead zone, which was weird, because there were obviously many tourists walking around, but not really anything on those blocks for the tourists. Just scruffy parking lots.

For some reason, there were many Indian food vendors on these parking lots (again, is this because tourists can't access Canada, or is there a special draw among South Asian tourists to Niagara Falls?)

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by brickell

Does anyone go to the falls anymore? I could see how it might have been a pretty big regional draw at some point, but the world is a lot more accessible now that it was in the 1950s.

There seemed to be tons of tourists, and I was there off-season. There were definitely more on the Canadian side, but there were really tons on both.

And they seemed to be mostly non-U.S. I couldn't always tell if they were Canadian (on Canadian side) but definitely lots of internationals on both side. Again, tons of South Asian visitors, esp. on U.S. side.

I was actually surprised at the crowds. I always thought NF was super cheesy and stupid, but the falls are pretty neat themselves, and the nearby parks are relaxing. Obviously all the Ripleys Believe it or Not junk is horrible, but that's easily ignored.

[jodelli]

Originally Posted by Brandon716

^^The Buffalo-Niagara region isn't anything like Detroit....

You mean aside from both being Great Lakes ports with declining populations and shrinking heavy industrial activity?

You're right about that. Oakland County, MI, just part of Detroit's suburban metro area, has more people and is wealthier than Erie County, NY.
But this is not a city vs city troll thing; it is relevant to the next point.....

.... For the most part, the suburbs here are as wealthy as you find anywhere else in America, or more so.

Nearly every rust belt city and in fact most other larger American cities can make that same claim about its suburbs, which means pretty much nothing at all to potential visitors.

Imagine flying into O'Hare just to go shopping in Schaumburg. Not going to happen.

I remember having a conversation with a guy originally from L.I. about a traffic jam we were in. He said it reminded him of home, and I said it was sort of like Oakland County. Thing was we were on US 19 in Pinellas County, Florida.

One looks much like another.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by niwell

The American side is pretty grim however and a surprising culture shock. I'll say one thing though - shopping in the Wal-mart supercentre is an incredible confidence booster. I don't think I've ever felt so well dressed and attractive, especially compared to where I work and go out in Toronto. Can't wait to go on a road trip next weekend (seriously).

Unfortunately, I doubt that these people appreciate your fashionable attire.






http://www.peopleofwalmart.com/

[miketoronto]

Buffalo-Niagara Falls is actually one the top 20 most visited regions in the USA. I just read about it in a Buffalo blog thing, and the same question was asked. They get so many visitors, yet they have not capitalized on it.