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  #8821  
Old Posted Yesterday, 2:49 AM
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TakeFive TakeFive is offline
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Originally Posted by bunt_q View Post
Ever the optimist. I'll remind you, they had to fight for three story buildings at the Arvada "TOD."
Yeah, TOD was a bit of a stretch and even the 3-story in that location qualifies as more density - at this time.

I've always thought the Gold Line made the least sense though, especially beyond Olde Town. It might take a few years for the locals to acclimate to the benefit of stronger density but I suspect it will happen. There is a TOD in the works at Pecos Junction.

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No, it won't happen over time. It's not changing now - we're suburbanizing our land use just as quickly as ever. Possibly more so as folks get priced out. The last mile problem certainly doesn't get easier as you move farther out... Which is why mode share regionally isn't changing much. "Driving less" is not the same as taking other modes. It's largely folks just forgoing a trip altogether. I text my friend instead of visiting them; I buy on Amazon rather than running to Best Buy; and so on.
Not sure of your reference to "suburbanizing" but there's plenty of opportunity for both. They're not mutually exclusive concepts.

Consider the West line; if one good company, say an aerospace or defense contractor would decide to move to the Federal Center and want half a million square feet for R&D/office space, that area could blow up nicely. I could see much of the stretch along Wadsworth between Belmar and the light rail station adding density over time.

Regatta Plaza redevelopment at Nine Mile Station should be nice and dense. There's good potential at the Colfax Station and the Peoria Station for dense development. And of course Stapleton. Just to name a few.

I don't doubt there will be more suburban development. Lots of land out by DIA and the Aurora Reservoir etc. That doesn't mean there won't also be increasing demand for living closer in along one of the transit lines. If you're going to add a million more people to Denver's population they'll have to go somewhere.
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  #8822  
Old Posted Yesterday, 3:20 AM
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bunt_q bunt_q is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Consider the West line; if one good company, say an aerospace or defense contractor would decide to move to the Federal Center and want half a million square feet for R&D/office space, that area could blow up nicely.
And that would serve what riders, exactly? Reverse commuters? People driving to an intermediate station who want to take a train to a suburban office (where parking will no doubt be plentiful), and likely shuttle to their office?

1/2 mile, that's what you get. Walkability on both ends, or else you don't have workable transit. You're saying the right things, but with an incomplete picture. It's why we have not a single successful example of TOD in Denver.

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
I could see much of the stretch along Wadsworth between Belmar and the light rail station adding density over time.
And anything south of ~10th Avenue will still not be remotely walkable to transit. So folks will drive. Go ahead and densify Wadsworth, you'll have LA style density, and LA style traffic. (Which I am fine with, but let's not kid ourselves that we are creating anything that's not auto dependent.)

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
Regatta Plaza redevelopment at Nine Mile Station should be nice and dense.
No, it is not.

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
There's good potential at the Colfax Station and the Peoria Station for dense development. And of course Stapleton. Just to name a few.
Colfax, no. A line that doesn't go anywhere without a transfer is not a line anybody but transit dependent populations will use. Forget the 225 line. It will never generate meaningful TOD.

It might generate density, because it'll give municipalities an excuse to slightly upzone, where they would otherwise get a fight. We see that a lot. But let's not confuse transit ADJACENT development with transit oriented development.

Peoria, maybe, If Aurora has commitment. They don't. We'll get Belmar density at best. That's worthless on a metropolitan scale.

Stapleton. Ha. Sure.

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Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
If you're going to add a million more people to Denver's population they'll have to go somewhere.
They'll live all over. But we have absolutely zero evidence that we're going to house them in transit oriented developments in any meaningful numbers. We haven't done it yet, after 15 years of experience with good light rail transit. I am not sure why you think we are going to start now. (Particularly without for sale multifamily in the mix.)

You can drink the kool aid - most everybody in Denver has. Just don't look too closely at the numbers.
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  #8823  
Old Posted Yesterday, 4:29 AM
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Speaking of Colfax Station
per RDT-Fastracks
'Rising Sun' arch to be feature of Colfax Station on R Line
per RTD-Fastracks
Quote:
The iconic arch was designed to resemble the "Rising Sun," a feature of the city of Aurora's logo. This will become the city's signature station and stands near to where the city's original "Gateway to the West" sign once stood.

The 252-foot-long arch was fabricated by Schuff Steel Company, Midwest Division-the same company that fabricated steel for the white canopies at Union Station.
Sounds rather interesting; who knows but I'll give Aurora an 'A' for effort.

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Originally Posted by bunt_q View Post
They'll live all over. But we have absolutely zero evidence that we're going to house them in transit oriented developments in any meaningful numbers. We haven't done it yet, after 15 years of experience with good light rail transit. I am not sure why you think we are going to start now. (Particularly without for sale multifamily in the mix.)

You can drink the kool aid - most everybody in Denver has. Just don't look too closely at the numbers.
You're too hung up with specific expectations. I'm not predicting DC density or even Tysons Corner density. We'll get Denver density.

Density doesn't have to be (strictly) TOD. Buses, we got buses and now-a-days they come in all shapes and styles, even low floor.

I've waited decades to witness the kind of infill density that downtown is now getting. Things can and do change. I also recently suggested that in 2020 there could be frustration with the "not great" ridership numbers with most of the new Fastracks lines. But that doesn't mean that by 2030 things won't be dramatically different.

Meeting you part way though I don't see Denver becoming big city dense, at least not over the next 30 years. I foresee a west of the Mississippi hybrid model that will none-the-less take good advantage of transit. It's why I advocate for both CDOT and transit funding. I also assume that when gas costs go over $7/8 a gallon (or whatever) that transit will be an even more attractive option.
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  #8824  
Old Posted Yesterday, 4:46 AM
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seventwenty seventwenty is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by TakeFive View Post
You're too hung up with specific expectations. I'm not predicting DC density or even Tysons Corner density. We'll get Denver density.

Density doesn't have to be (strictly) TOD. Buses, we got buses and now-a-days they come in all shapes and styles, even low floor.

I've waited decades to witness the kind of infill density that downtown is now getting. Things can and do change. I also recently suggested that in 2020 there could be frustration with the "not great" ridership numbers with most of the new Fastracks lines. But that doesn't mean that by 2030 things won't be dramatically different.

Meeting you part way though I don't see Denver becoming big city dense, at least not over the next 30 years. I foresee a west of the Mississippi hybrid model that will none-the-less take good advantage of transit. It's why I advocate for both CDOT and transit funding. I also assume that when gas costs go over $7/8 a gallon (or whatever) that transit will be an even more attractive option.
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  #8825  
Old Posted Yesterday, 5:51 AM
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Speaking of TOD, I really like what Lone Tree is doing. Sure, most of the development isn't particularly walkable, but that is great progress for that part of town
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