Large metros without a major amusement park with lots of rollercoasters

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by NorthernDancer

According to the roller coaster database, Canada's Wonderland has 16 roller coasters. Is that the most in North America?

not quite, Magic Mountain has 19 and Cedar Point has 17.

Here are the 15 North American amusement parks with 10+ coasters:

1. SF magic mountain - 19
2. Cedar point - 17
3. Canada's wondeland - 16
4. Kings island - 14
5. SF great america - 13
5. SF great adventure - 13
5. Kings dominion - 13
5. Carowinds - 13
5. Hershey park - 13
10. SF over Texas - 12
11. SF over Georgia - 11
11. SF new england - 11
13. Knotts berry farm - 10
13. La ronde - 10
13. Lagoon - 10



Red = six flags park
Blue = cedar fair park
Green = independent park

[dave8721]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

not quite, Magic Mountain has 19 and Cedar Point has 17.

Here are the 15 North American parks with 10+ coasters:

1. SF magic mountain - 19
2. Cedar point - 17
3. Canada's wondeland - 16
4. Kings island - 14
5. SF great america - 13
5. SF great adventure - 13
5. Kings dominion - 13
5. Carowinds - 13
5. Hershey park - 13
10. SF over Texas - 12
11. SF over Georgia - 11
11. SF new england - 11
13. Knotts berry farm - 10
13. La ronde - 10
13. Lagoon - 10

As for a metro it looks like Orlando comes out on top due to the sheer volume of parks with 31 coasters (counting Winter Haven as part of the metro as its less than an hour from Disney World to Legoland). Actually the area from west of Orlando and to north of Tampa has a total of 40 coasters.

edit: Correction the LA area has 48.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by caligrad

"High value real estate" may be reaching a bit. Just because its near a few stadiums and a freeway doesn't mean its high value. In some cases, the opposite is actually true. In this case, this should have remained a theme park. Bad call on Six Flags part. I wouldn't blame the "Gang Members" but I looked at a few videos on YouTube about astroworld and sorry but the rides SUCKED. Either that or I'm sitting spoiled with Six Flags Magic Mountain.

But that being said. Its not that far fetched for "high value real estate" to sit empty for decades. In the center of Downtown LA there are a few plots of land that are considered "High Value" but are just now starting to get developed a decade after the recession while some are still sitting empty. Vegas had 3 projects that came to a screeching halt when the recession hit and literally they just started work on them again this year (minus the ridiculous incompletion of the Fontainebleau Hotel).

From LA to Seattle to NYC down to Miami, you will find "High Value real estate" that have been sitting empty for years. American developers are still overly cautious about the strength of the American economy. If it weren't for the Canadian and Asian investors and developers, we probably wouldn't be seeing the level of activity we are now. That's just the way the world works these days.

@Caligard

The rides being fun or not is subjective but they were still popular. Popular enough that I can assure you that it had zero to do with why AW closed up shop.

I won't say the gang issue was the reason but it was probably a combination of things, including that.

By the way, for those of you out there reading don't go spreading this as the gospel, I'm just making an educated guess. We won't know for sure unless you were in the back room or have an inside connection.

[ThePhun1]

We have a lot of LA posters here, any Raging Waters fans?

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by NorthernDancer

According to the roller coaster database, Canada's Wonderland has 16 roller coasters. Is that the most in North America?

Magic Mountain in LA has 19, im pretty sure the most in the world. Cedar Point 17 or 18 if im not mistaken

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by ThePhun1

We have a lot of LA posters here, any Raging Waters fans?

Havent been in years, but i loved it as a kid. I still have nightmares of dropout

[sopas ej]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Dont want to hijack the thread at all, was just curious what some of you thought...

This thread got me thinking... Lets take Universal Studios Hollywood.... Would that be built there today if the land was available? I haven't done the research but i would wager a bet that Universal brings in WAY more money to the city of LA than any other development that would have taken its place. Hotel taxes, property taxes, retail taxes and on and on. These things are cash cows. If a large metro had enough available land close to the center of the city, i think an amusement park might be a good investment.

I don't think the City of LA receives any revenue from Universal Studios Hollywood; Universal City is unincorporated LA County territory. When the the movie studio was created, it was built outside of LA city limits for a reason, I assume so that it wouldn't have to pay city taxes.

Interestingly, Magic Mountain is outside of Santa Clarita city limits. Magic Mountain existed before the incorporation of Santa Clarita; you would think that Santa Clarita would have wanted to include Magic Mountain within its boundaries.

[Steely Dan]

here's an updated list of North American parks ranked by # of "real" rollercoasters (ie. not including rinky-dink little kiddie coasters)

Here are the 11 North American amusement parks with 10+ "real" coasters:

1. Cedar point - 15
1. SF magic mountain - 15
3. Canada's wondeland - 14
4. Kings island - 13
5. Carowinds - 12
5. Hershey park - 12
5. Kings dominion - 12
8. SF great adventure - 11
8. SF great america - 11
10. SF over Texas - 10
10. SF over Georgia - 10



Red = six flags park
Blue = cedar fair park
Green = independent park

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Havent been in years, but i loved it as a kid. I still have nightmares of dropout

I remember nearly drowning there as a little kid.

[fflint]

I got banged around pretty good and had at least one long scrape from the rides at Raging Waters the week before last.

But it's still fun.

[caligrad]

Originally Posted by ThePhun1

@Caligard

The rides being fun or not is subjective but they were still popular. Popular enough that I can assure you that it had zero to do with why AW closed up shop.

I won't say the gang issue was the reason but it was probably a combination of things, including that.

By the way, for those of you out there reading don't go spreading this as the gospel, I'm just making an educated guess. We won't know for sure unless you were in the back room or have an inside connection.

True. But I did see a few vids from people on youtube who actually went to the park. They loved the park but hated the fact that Six Flags didn't invest in better rides. But apparently the actual nail in the coffin was poor attendance. People just stopped going. According to a few articles and right out of the mouth of the Ceo of the time. So I guess you can point the finger to the rowdy crowd and the selection of rides being underwhelming. Reason why most were torn down and never rebuilt in other parks.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by caligrad

True. But I did see a few vids from people on youtube who actually went to the park. They loved the park but hated the fact that Six Flags didn't invest in better rides. But apparently the actual nail in the coffin was poor attendance. People just stopped going. According to a few articles and right out of the mouth of the Ceo of the time. So I guess you can point the finger to the rowdy crowd and the selection of rides being underwhelming. Reason why most were torn down and never rebuilt in other parks.

at the time of its closing in 2005, SF astroworld had 9 rollercoasters, and while i'm sure they were still fun rides (i never personally visitied astroworld), their coaster collection was getting a bit dated and long in the tooth. for whatever reason, six flags stopped investing in astroworld with the latest and greatest in rollercoaster technology, leaving the park with a coaster line-up mostly made up of rides from the '70s/'80s, many of them relocated to astroworld from other parks in the SF chain. it kind of became a retirement home for older rollercoasters.

let's take a look at what they had in 2005 when the park closed:

1. Serpent: (1969) - a small kiddie coaster from arrow dynamics.

2. Texas Cyclone: (1976) - the park's big wooden coaster. designed by famed coaster designer bill cobb, it was once widely considered to be one of the best roller coasters on the planet back in the day. however, modifications made to tame the ride over the years, along with the addition of the much-hated "coffin cars", greatly damaged the ride's reputation in its later years.

3. Greezed Lightning: (1978) - a classic flywheel launch schwarzkopf shuttle loop. these are always super fun, if a bit short, but by 2005 it wasn't exactly state of the art tech anymore as launched coasters had moved on to electromagnetic and hydraulic launch systems.

4. XLR-8: (1984) - a 1st generation arrow suspended coaster. while this looked pretty fun, it was generally considered to be one of the tamer versions of the style compared to the more potent examples of "big bad wolf" at BG williamsburg and "ninja" at SF magic mountain.

5. Viper: (originally built in 1981 at SF over mid-america, moved to astroworld in 1989) - a schwarzkopf looping star. all schwarzkopf coasters are good rollercoasters, but this was one of the smaller models with only a single loop. totally a fun coaster, but not a major one or anything.

6. Ultra-twister: (originally built in 1986 at SF great adventure, moved to astroworld in 1990) - a very unusual switchback pipeline style roller coaster from Togo. this was the only Togo pipeline coaster that was ever built outside of japan.

7. Batman The Escape: (originally built in 1986 at SF magic mountain, moved to astroworld in 1993) - one of the rare intamin stand-up coasters (only 3 were ever built worldwide). not a bad ride, but didn't have the reputation of being as good as the later B&M stand-up coasters that followed and came to dominate that segment of the market. and stand-up coasters have always had a bit of a gimmicky feel to them.

8. Mayan Minderbender: (originally built in 1988 at boblo island, moved to astroworld in 1995) - a small and somewhat rare semi-enclosed vekoma family-style ride. mostly unremarkable from i've read of it. certainly not a high-octane thrill ride.

9. Serial Thriller: (1999) - a standard vekoma suspended looping coaster. over 40 examples of this model have been built worldwide. even when SF decided to finally invest in a brand new major rollercoaster for the park, they choose one of the most generic ones they could. not that vekoma SLC's aren't fun, they're just not terribly unique or noteworthy.

[llamaorama]

The Ultra Twister was cool. So I've ridden a kind of ride that doesn't really exist in most of the world? Sweet. I remember when Mayan Mindbender was built, I did not know it was from another park. Greased Lightning was a long line wait for a crappy short ride.

We went to Astroworld a lot when I was a kid. I was pretty shocked when they closed it. Since I was a kid I thought it was a perfectly fun park, albeit kind of small. It's location across from the Dome and Reliant Park was a good one, there was a pedestrian overpass over I-610 that led directly to the park's main gate. In later years the park had a light rail station near its entrance.

Had they invested in it, it could have been the tourism draw that Houston really needs now, in a very accessible location that would have enabled tourists to see and do other things on the same trip. Instead they sold the land for a hopeless "mixed use development"(in the middle of suburbia) that never got built. I am not sure if that site is where UT is building its med/tech campus now, I thought that was much further south.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

Greased Lightning was a long line wait for a crappy short ride.

crappy?

CRAPPY?????

schwarzkopf shuttle loops are indeed short, fast rides, but i couldn't disagree more strongly with your assessment of "crappy".

we used to have one called "tidal wave" at SF great america back in the day and it was always one of my favorites. rocketing out of the station from a dead stand still and flying straight into that giant loop and up into the sky on the spike, only to then fall back through it all backwards was always such a rush. 100% pure rollercoaster fun! and i don't remember the line ever being terribly long for great america's version, though that was more than 20 years ago now.

sadly, "montezooma's revenge" at knott's berry farm is the last schwarzkopf shutttle loop still operating in the US (though there are two relocated ones still operating down in mexico, one of them is of a different, unique design though).

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by llamaorama

The Ultra Twister was cool. So I've ridden a kind of ride that doesn't really exist in most of the world? Sweet. I remember when Mayan Mindbender was built, I did not know it was from another park. Greased Lightning was a long line wait for a crappy short ride.

We went to Astroworld a lot when I was a kid. I was pretty shocked when they closed it. Since I was a kid I thought it was a perfectly fun park, albeit kind of small. It's location across from the Dome and Reliant Park was a good one, there was a pedestrian overpass over I-610 that led directly to the park's main gate. In later years the park had a light rail station near its entrance.

Had they invested in it, it could have been the tourism draw that Houston really needs now, in a very accessible location that would have enabled tourists to see and do other things on the same trip. Instead they sold the land for a hopeless "mixed use development"(in the middle of suburbia) that never got built. I am not sure if that site is where UT is building its med/tech campus now, I thought that was much further south.

No one but people from Beaumont/Port Arthur, some small country towns in the Piney Woods and Coastal Plains as well as those from extreme SW Louisiana were going to come to AstroWorld unless they happened to be in town. Houston missed the boat when it came to tourist attractions but losing AstroWorld was a minor event.

[pdxtex]

Detroit had the coolest regional amusement park ive ever been too, boblo island. defunct now, but you used to take a multi-level steamer type ship down the river to the park which was actually in Ontario. double adventure! any se Michigander will wax nostalgically about it. Portland's claim to fame is the nation oldest, municipally owned park. the only thing major about it is the Wurlitzer organ at its roller rink, the biggest functioning rink organ in the country. neat!!