Will any other metro host multiple teams in the same sport?

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Anyone expecting LA to love and embrace the Chargers right away doesn't know sports. If the Chargers went to Chicago and played in a soccer stadium, they're just going to be loved there? Yea, I don't see that at all. I'd imagine it'd be full of the city's transplants too.

It's going to take years to develop the fan base, and that's what the owner is counting on. Whispers? The Owner laughs it off, and he's the only one who counts. The Chargers also play in A TEMPORARY SOCCER stadium at the moment. Let's see what happens next year when their permanment home is ready.

I'm a 49er fan, but the Rams/Chargers expecations never made any sense. There wasnt a team here for 20 years, so millions of sports fans had to find other teams instead.
The NFL screwed up by taking the teams away in the 1990s, and now they're paying for that mistake. It can be corrected, but it won't be overnight. It's the younger fan base
that will embrace the Chargers/Rams and we know that might take 10 years or so.

Thank you. Im not sure how people don't grasp this. Why on earth would fans in LA support the Chargers? There is literally no reason. Plop them in NY / Chicago and it would be the same problem. It should be noted that they sell out every game and have, by far, the highest average ticket prices. The problem is that its basically a neutral field situation for at least 5 of their home games.

The Rams are doing just fine btw. They average over 71,000 a game, are growing the brand out here, are exciting and good. There are a lot of Rams fans in LA. However, it will take a generation to get the real foothold since you need todays toddlers and young kids to become fans and grow the base. There are hundreds of thousands of transplants here from other cities. Fans dont just change teams. The Chargers will also be fine since they are on that Clippers path. They moved to LA and immediately doubled their value and now they are cultivating fans. The Clippers did the same and have carved out a decent niche in LA and sell out every game. They even had a 7 year sellout streak that was snapped a couple seasons ago.

Regarding the topic...I honestly dont think there will be another 2 team metro. Im sure the Inland Empire could easily support their own MLB and NBA team and id bet that NY could probably support another baseball team, but i just dont see new teams going to cities with existing franchises.

[LosAngelesSportsFan]

Originally Posted by xzmattzx

Is it just me, or would it have made more sense that if the Chargers moved from San Diego, that they move just halfway to Los Angeles (so not Carson) and call themselves the Southern California Chargers? A stadium could've been built in Escondido, Oceanside, Irvine, or San Clemente, for instance (assuming it got approval, for the sake of argument). Then the team is close enough to San Diego to keep those fans, and shows that it isn't going all-in with Los Angeles (including with the name), but at the same time, maybe the Chargers would get a slice of the Los Angeles TV market.

The correct move would have been to move the Rams and Raiders to LA and the Chargers to Vegas, however, the NFL is full of stupid people and they wanted to throw Spanos a bone because they love him. If the Chargers didnt move to LA when they did, the Raiders were going to and then the Chargers would have been stuck in SD in a subpar stadium as the third most popular team in SoCal by a long shot. They still are but now at least the franchise is worth a couple bil more and they are moving into a new stadium.

The Chargers will eventually be just fine. They are already growing their fan base and will be playing in the worlds greatest sports palace for $1 a year. Also, it would literally be impossible to build a stadium in any of those OC cities. I totally understand your reasoning, but it wouldnt ever happen in real life.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by LosAngelesSportsFan

Thank you. Im not sure how people don't grasp this. Why on earth would fans in LA support the Chargers? There is literally no reason. Plop them in NY / Chicago and it would be the same problem. It should be noted that they sell out every game and have, by far, the highest average ticket prices. The problem is that its basically a neutral field situation for at least 5 of their home games.

The Rams are doing just fine btw. They average over 71,000 a game, are growing the brand out here, are exciting and good. There are a lot of Rams fans in LA. However, it will take a generation to get the real foothold since you need todays toddlers and young kids to become fans and grow the base. There are hundreds of thousands of transplants here from other cities. Fans dont just change teams. The Chargers will also be fine since they are on that Clippers path. They moved to LA and immediately doubled their value and now they are cultivating fans. The Clippers did the same and have carved out a decent niche in LA and sell out every game. They even had a 7 year sellout streak that was snapped a couple seasons ago.

Regarding the topic...I honestly dont think there will be another 2 team metro. Im sure the Inland Empire could easily support their own MLB and NBA team and id bet that NY could probably support another baseball team, but i just dont see new teams going to cities with existing franchises.

And it's drawing comparisons to Vegas with the Raiders lol.

LA wasn't even asking for the teams. It didn't need the NFL, at all. There were no crazy tax payer stadiums, tax incentive bs.
The Owners wanted to be there, paid for everything, and made it happen. Does it suck St. Louis and San Diego lost a team? Sort of, but LA lost the Rams for no reason the first time.
I don't remember anyone giving a f when that happened. To me, they just went back home. Chargers are different, obviously.

Maybe other cities are just jealous and salty it didn't happen so easy for them. I don't know. It's odd.
You knew the NFL wasn't going to stay out of the 2nd largest market forever. It didn't make sense.

[Handro]

Again, I think the LA people are jumping in here and ignoring the context of the thread.

We were discussing the fact that in 2019, it's a whole different ballgame than the 1950s-60s when most two-franchse cities became two franchise cities. Nowadays, it would be much more difficult for any city to add a second franchise in any major sport because sports fandom is already baked into whatever franchises currently exist.

The only example of a city adding a second franchise in one of the four major leagues that we have in the past 50 years is Los Angeles adding the Charges (the Rams in this case would be the legacy team, since they were an LA team for decades before moving to St. Louis.)

It's not working out great so far, and many in the NFL offices and across the league are concerned at just how poorly it's going. It's got nothing to do with LA as a city, as it would be the same in any city. You can calm down the LA boosterism. LA is a massive market, nearly on par with New York, so if they can't add a second team in the most popular sport, no city can.

As for bringing up the raiders:

Originally Posted by Handro

Sure, in 20 years the Chargers might be a Jacksonville-level team in terms of popularity and revenue if they have a little bit of success and maybe some luck drafting superstar QB. But I think it's pretty clear ROI would be way better for a team to be introduced to a city with no current franchise than to compete with a legacy franchise as the #2 show in town. Watch Vegas embrace the Raiders way beyond what we've seen with the Chargers in LA.

LA folks: Relax. Not sure if this is just insane civic pride/defensiveness gone awry or we've found some actual Los Angeles-based Chargers fans in the wild, lol.

[LA21st]

We're just explaining how weird it is to have those expecations.
If it was another city, I'd say the same thing. It makes no sense as A SPORTS FAN. The Chargers are in a very weird spot. The NFL created/allowed this problem 25 years ago.

[JManc]

How can anyone be a football fan in California when the teams move around every 5 minutes? Even the 49'ers up and left SF for Santa Clara.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

IMO, no metro can successfully host more than 1 team within the same league unless the metro holds a population of 10,000,000. IMO, CSAs don't count in this regard.

I think that what is more likely is smaller markets that have >$50,000,000,000 in GDP welcoming franchises (whether they be expansions or relocations) such as Richmond, Louisville, Birmingham, Hampton Roads, Tucson, etc...

[ThePhun1]

It should have been Rams and Raiders...again. To boot that would have been a symmetrical reverse.

[galleyfox]

Originally Posted by maru2501

https://www.chicagotribune.com/sport...16-column.html

there is periodically chatter about a second NFL team in Chi under a dome that could host super bowls and whatnot

That's because Chicago wants a new stadium not a second team. Don't forget that the Arizona Cardinals were originally Chicago's native 2nd NFL team, and they bailed long ago. When the pro teams are dismal, it's usually college sports and minor leagues that fill the gap, and a 2nd pro team would find it difficult to break that dynamic.

(Though speaking of Bears stadiums, I've been hearing some rumors about the team scouting places that seem different from the locations usually proposed by fans and bored journalists. I've heard they dropped by the Tribune River District, which happened not long after the horseracing people said the Bears were interested in Arlington. Made me think.)

[Acajack]

Originally Posted by JManc

Habs are popular in in Upstate NY as well. Close 3rd after Rangers and Sabres.

Yeah. Viggo Mortensen became a Montreal Canadiens fan as a result of growing up in Watertown NY. He even learned some French in order to live his fandom to the max, and addressed the crowd in that language at the Habs' 100th anniversary celebration in 1909.

But generally speaking across northern NY, VT, NH and ME Habs fandom is often a Franco-American thing. It's a family tradition to cheer for the team, similar to how some Mexican-Americans cheer for Mexican soccer teams.

Of course, the further south you get in New England, and obviously in the Boston area, even Franco-Americans become fans of the Bruins.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rene_Rancourt

[Handro]

Originally Posted by LA21st

We're just explaining how weird it is to have those expecations.
If it was another city, I'd say the same thing. It makes no sense as A SPORTS FAN. The Chargers are in a very weird spot. The NFL created/allowed this problem 25 years ago.

Me: no city can support a second major league team unless it happened like 50 years ago, just look at the most recent example in the Chargers in LA--a city and league that would be best case scenario for the addition of a second major franchise.

You: THE CHARGERS NEED TIME TO BUILD A FAN BASE

Me: Sure, maybe if their lucky and given a broad timeline. But if they needed to move they should have gone to a city without a team to begin with, case in point the Raiders.

You: LMAO THE RAIDERS! WHY DO YOU EXPECT LA TO SUPPORT A SECOND TEAM CHICAGO COULDNT DO IT EITHER

Me:...

Californians are weird as hell

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Handro

Me: no city can support a second major league team unless it happened like 50 years ago, just look at the most recent example in the Chargers in LA--a city and league that would be best case scenario for the addition of a second major franchise.

You: THE CHARGERS NEED TIME TO BUILD A FAN BASE

Me: Sure, maybe if their lucky and given a broad timeline. But if they needed to move they should have gone to a city without a team to begin with, case in point the Raiders.

You: LMAO THE RAIDERS! WHY DO YOU EXPECT LA TO SUPPORT A SECOND TEAM CHICAGO COULDNT DO IT EITHER

Me:...

Californians are weird as hell

Here was my comment, which is responding to you (and others) "And it's drawing comparisons to Vegas with the Raiders lol."

Which is WHAT YOU DID.

I said it's a dumb comparison to make with the Chargers, since Las Vegas ALREADY HAS A BUILT IN FAN BASE with ex Angelenos. On top of that, LA residents (RAIDER FANS) go to Vegas on the weekend already. And on top of that, they've wanted one of the big three sports for decades. Again, LA didn't ask for the Chargers or any NFL team. So why compare these situations? They're clearly not the same thing.

And a new city somewhere else is not a given to succeed either. Vegas will because it's almost an extension of Southern California. Its probably the smartest relocation any sports team has done in many years. If Tampa left for Vegas, would it be as exciting? Probably not and I'm sure the league would be somewhat skeptical.

[Chisouthside]

Originally Posted by JManc

How can anyone be a football fan in California when the teams move around every 5 minutes? Even the 49'ers up and left SF for Santa Clara.

Yeah man, that always seemed to strange to me. Such a change from playing in the City to the middle of silicon valley.

[Steely Dan]

thinking about this issue some more, i actually wouldn't want any new major league teams to come to chicago.

one of the things that i like about chicago's teams is that they're old school and DEEPLY ingrained in the city's identity and culture.

i mean, these are the same teams that my great grandfathers used to root for way back in the olden days.

why would we want some newfangled interloper to come prancing along and upset all of that legacy?


the "classic" teams:

MLB - Cubs (1876) - founding member of the NL, one of two left (braves), only one left in its original city
MLB - White Sox - (1901) - founding member of the AL, one of only five still in their original city
NFL - Bears - (1920) - founding member of the NFL, one of two left (cardinals), only one left in its original city
NHL - Blackhawks - (1926) - one of the NHL's "Original 6"


the "new" teams/leagues:

NBA - Bulls (1966) - 7th oldest NBA team playing in its current city
MLS - Fire (1998) - 1st round MLS expansion team, only two years after the league was founded

[LA21st]

Yup, along with Boston and NYC. Philly is maybe 4? Not really sure.

[badrunner]

The Chargers are better off as the forgotten team in LA than if they had moved to some second tier city to be the only game in town. It's more profitable for the league as well.

This sunday the Chargers are hosting the Vikings and the stadium will no doubt be taken over by Vikings fans, and it's not hard to figure out why:

Sun 12/15 highs
Carson CA: 65 degrees
Minneapolis MN: 7 degrees

LA is a popular winter tourist destination already, so ever since the NFL returned to the city opposing fans have discovered that football season is the perfect time of year for a little weekend getaway to sunny SoCal to catch a game. Cheap flights and online ticket sales make it real easy. The same thing happens at Rams home games. Even though the Rams have a ton of local support, you always get a good contingent of opposing fans. It's always a good lively crowd.
https://www.theringer.com/nfl/2019/1...round-playoffs

[Handro]

Originally Posted by LA21st

Here was my comment, which is responding to you (and others) "And it's drawing comparisons to Vegas with the Raiders lol."

Which is WHAT YOU DID.

I said it's a dumb comparison to make with the Chargers, since Las Vegas ALREADY HAS A BUILT IN FAN BASE with ex Angelenos. On top of that, LA residents (RAIDER FANS) go to Vegas on the weekend already. And on top of that, they've wanted one of the big three sports for decades. Again, LA didn't ask for the Chargers or any NFL team. So why compare these situations? They're clearly not the same thing.

And a new city somewhere else is not a given to succeed either. Vegas will because it's almost an extension of Southern California. Its probably the smartest relocation any sports team has done in many years. If Tampa left for Vegas, would it be as exciting? Probably not and I'm sure the league would be somewhat skeptical.

One is a city without a team, the other is a city adding a second team, the comparison is in how each city will/did embrace the addition of the new team. In a discussion about the viability of adding a second franchise to a city it's a fantastic comparison. "The Chargers would have been better off moving to a city without a team" is not a bold claim. We could have used the Las Vegas Golden Knights as another example of a team being added to a city without a franchise, if being NFL-centric confused you. Or the OKC Thunder, for another recent example. Both cities gravitated towards those teams immediately.

Again, this is not a knock on Los Angeles. It's, like you said, about sports fandom, which was what the original point of my very first post about the topic. I used LA and the Chargers simply because it's the only city/team that has been added as a SECOND franchise in the past 50 years. My point was and is (and I think it's your point too, which is why I find it strange you are so worked up and antagonistic) is that sports fandom is baked into a city's culture if it already has a team, and adding a second in 2019 is at best extremely difficult and at worst not possible. You may not be worried about the Chargers, but many in the NFL--from execs to team owners--have leaked to the press that there have been discussions about a contingency plan if they don't turn it around.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by badrunner

This sunday the Chargers are hosting the Vikings and the stadium will no doubt be taken over by Vikings fans, and it's not hard to figure out why:

No, it's because the Chargers don't have LA fans, and the SD fans are boycotting. Has nothing to do with weather or tourism.

If the Chargers were still playing in SD the crowd would be all Chargers, even though SD has perfect weather and tons of tourism.

[Cirrus]

A 2nd NHL team in the Toronto area is by *far* the best opportunity for a 2nd major team in the same metro area right now. Hamilton or Mississauga.

[LA21st]

Originally Posted by Crawford

No, it's because the Chargers don't have LA fans, and the SD fans are boycotting. Has nothing to do with weather or tourism.

If the Chargers were still playing in SD the crowd would be all Chargers, even though SD has perfect weather and tons of tourism.

It was never all Chargers fans. It's not as bad as what's happening in Carson, but many Chargers fans bemoaned the same thing in San Diego for years.