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  #141  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 5:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
here's the deal:

canada and the USA can really be seen as a case of good son/bad son with regard to our parent, britain. we both approached dad to ask if we could have the car keys to go out on saturday night. dad said "no, you're not old enough yet", so the USA said "fuck you, dad, i can do what i want, you're not the boss of me" and stole the keys and went out anyway. canada said "ok dad, i respect your decision, and when the time is right for me to have the keys, i trust that you'll give them to me".

i guess this makes australia the special needs child who was sent far, far away off to the nut house to be kept out of sight. (just kidding, aussie friends)

we're all still family to this very day. there's no way around it.
Yeah and they punish us by making Americans wait in the slow line at customs, and retake the (very difficult) driving test to get a license, whereas Canadians, Aussies and Kiwis can just exchange theirs for a British one.
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  #142  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 5:16 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Yeah and they punish us by making Americans wait in the slow line at customs, and retake the (very difficult) driving test to get a license, whereas Canadians, Aussies and Kiwis can just exchange theirs for a British one.
We are not a Commonwealth country, I think.
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  #143  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 5:20 PM
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^ the US is most definitely NOT a commonwealth nation.

our past disobedience has consequences.
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  #144  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 5:22 PM
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Imo it's true that in the initial years the US was seen as somewhere to flee to for persecuted religious minorities from Europe, though whether that's because they wanted somewhere that all religions could live in peace and harmony is more debatable, a lot of them were quite extreme and probably wouldn't have taken too well to living among Muslim sects coming from North Africa and doing the same, coming to live side by side with them in those communities, or even respecting the right of Native Americans to live in those colonies with their indigenous beliefs without telling them they were godless heretics who should convert. I think a lot of them weren't in favour of religious tolerance as we know it today per se but just wanted a place where the rules/beliefs of their own sect could dominate socially.

I guess it was seen as a 'blank slate' where nonconformist (Christian) religious beliefs could each find their own space to live in, but to say that equates to a place of complete religious freedom as we would understand it today is probably a stretch.
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  #145  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 5:47 PM
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We are not a Commonwealth country, I think.
Yes that's my point.
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  #146  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 5:55 PM
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Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
Imo it's true that in the initial years the US was seen as somewhere to flee to for persecuted religious minorities from Europe, though whether that's because they wanted somewhere that all religions could live in peace and harmony is more debatable, a lot of them were quite extreme and probably wouldn't have taken too well to living among Muslim sects coming from North Africa and doing the same, coming to live side by side with them in those communities, or even respecting the right of Native Americans to live in those colonies with their indigenous beliefs without telling them they were godless heretics who should convert. I think a lot of them weren't in favour of religious tolerance as we know it today per se but just wanted a place where the rules/beliefs of their own sect could dominate socially.
Disagree. The US constitution is very explicit that no religion should dominate, and people of many different Christian traditions indeed did live in harmony in the early US. remember, Catholics had few rights in the UK at the time.
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  #147  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 6:31 PM
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Originally Posted by dc_denizen View Post
complete market failure that I see vacant lots and underutilized areas less than a mile from the largest freshwater lakes on earth. w beaches, etc. incredible.

look at this:

https://www.google.com/maps/@41.8113...7i13312!8i6656

what is this detroit? what happened to the other houses on this block?
post decline Midwest urbanism is kind of fascinating though. its like a real life omega man. look at some of those other townhouses around there. some of them are clearly new, high end construction just standing there by themselves. bronzeville as far as I know is way less crime ridden then some of its southside neighbors but its still got some problems. id totally live around there though but I think you have to make some concessions. probably leisurely walk at night are off the table. detroit is even weirder. you see little urban fortress all around the fringes or new center and midtown. lofts with huge gates but inside it luxury living. parts of America are starting to resemble south africa or colombia. gated, fortified luxury surrounded by hostile territory. north saint Louis is even more weird. science fiction coming to life.
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  #148  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 6:54 PM
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you see that even in Lincoln Park, with homes that were built in the 70s or 80s. this one quite literally resembles a military bunker

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  #149  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 7:16 PM
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do you know that address or a nearby intersection? man, Lincoln park is awesome. its got to be one of the best urban neighborhoods in the country. the fenced front yard is definitely a Chicago trademark. i like the one at the SW corner of e 45th and Forestville. its totally omegaman. nice stout, fireproof cinderblock, huge flood lights, decorative iron bars, multiple steel obstacles to prevent vehicular advancement, a pokey decorative fence....its like paranoid, neo baroque..
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Last edited by pdxtex; Oct 12, 2016 at 7:55 PM.
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  #150  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 9:09 PM
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Originally Posted by pdxtex View Post
do you know that address or a nearby intersection? man, Lincoln park is awesome. its got to be one of the best urban neighborhoods in the country. the fenced front yard is definitely a Chicago trademark. i like the one at the SW corner of e 45th and Forestville. its totally omegaman. nice stout, fireproof cinderblock, huge flood lights, decorative iron bars, multiple steel obstacles to prevent vehicular advancement, a pokey decorative fence....its like paranoid, neo baroque..
its in the pic, but its the 1800 block of sheffield.
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  #151  
Old Posted Oct 12, 2016, 9:46 PM
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my firewall was acting up and the image didn't come thru. thanks. concerning Chicago, how would you consider race relations in near south neighborhoods these days. I found my dads boyhood home in southshore on redfin over xmas. man it was cheap! solid block too (chappell and 81st) but I always wondered how a white dude would be seen in a all black, middle class neighborhood. would they think I was an interloper or stupid? or not care?
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Last edited by pdxtex; Oct 12, 2016 at 9:56 PM.
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  #152  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2016, 12:00 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Exactly.

The US is an extension of Europe...established by a European power and largely populated by European immigrants...setting the pace of American culture early on. Even non "European" Americans have largely adopted Western/ European customs everyone else has done all along.
Not even Europe, but a handful of countries in the northwestern corner of Europe. As recently as 1980, nearly 80% of white Americans were of British, Irish, German, Dutch or Scandinavian descent (with the first three alone accounting for about 70%).
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  #153  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2016, 2:01 PM
LouisVanDerWright LouisVanDerWright is offline
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Originally Posted by Jonesy55 View Post
Imo it's true that in the initial years the US was seen as somewhere to flee to for persecuted religious minorities from Europe, though whether that's because they wanted somewhere that all religions could live in peace and harmony is more debatable, a lot of them were quite extreme and probably wouldn't have taken too well to living among Muslim sects coming from North Africa and doing the same, coming to live side by side with them in those communities, or even respecting the right of Native Americans to live in those colonies with their indigenous beliefs without telling them they were godless heretics who should convert. I think a lot of them weren't in favour of religious tolerance as we know it today per se but just wanted a place where the rules/beliefs of their own sect could dominate socially.

I guess it was seen as a 'blank slate' where nonconformist (Christian) religious beliefs could each find their own space to live in, but to say that equates to a place of complete religious freedom as we would understand it today is probably a stretch.
This conversation is way off topic at this point, but let's remember the constitution was written by a bunch of guys who were deists and had basically rejected the notion of a Christian denomination. Anyone who claims the constitution was written with only Christian religions in mind or something stupid like that just doesn't know their history.

Were the ideals of the average American the same in 1776 as they are today? Obviously not, but that's clearly not what I'm arguing. Were Americans in 1776 totally obsessed with a series of ideals that didn't exist in the minds of the common man anywhere else on earth at the time? Absolutely. Was the reason for that "common sense" because of a totally different way of life than the past few centuries of European tradition? Absolutely. The circumstances of the colonies were totally different than anything that had ever happened before and, regardless of where the citizens were from, fostered a totally different world view. Just being "from" a place has nothing to do with it.

You don't just come out of the womb reciting Beowulf in old English just because you are of British ancestory. Culture is transitory and can change rapidly over a generation or two. The second Europeans started making landfall in America their culture rapidly diverged from European culture and resulted in a totally new world view and way of government. Just being from some place doesn't mean shit which is exactly my point, just look at rockstar founding father Hamilton who was a bastard child from half a world away. Meritocracy, liberties, individual rights (not just rights between baron and king), and most importantly just being left the fuck alone by everyone were all new ideas. They were all things that simply couldn't exist in Europe because there were too many people and too many centuries of authoritarian institutions. So no, just having a bunch of people from Europe doesn't make the United States European any more than Detroit having 80% African American population makes it Nairobi.

The US Constitution, while drawing on some British legal traditions, was totally out of left field and a rejection of all prior forms of society. It is not European, not by a mile. To this day it is not European which is why we have a Congress instead of Parliamentarian system.
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  #154  
Old Posted Oct 18, 2016, 4:09 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Yeah and they punish us by making Americans wait in the slow line at customs, and retake the (very difficult) driving test to get a license, whereas Canadians, Aussies and Kiwis can just exchange theirs for a British one.
haha yes, i think i called it the "world corral" at heathrow.

my view on america is that it is the outgrowth of a very particular period of european history...things of course didn't expand in a vacuum. there is even speculation that the general american accent is closer to what british english once sounded like, than present day non-rhotic british english.
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