Southern cities with biggest cultural impact?

[Labtec]

Originally Posted by pj3000

That's false. Dallas has immediate association for generations of the American psyche on a broad national scale. The association is "Texas", big business, big hair, cowboy hats, etc. (whether it is really accurate or not).

One could ask an 88 year old white man and a 22 year old black woman and a 40 year old Asian woman and a 15 year old Hispanic girl what comes to mind when the name "Dallas" is mentioned, and you would get four similar responses about the above attributes associated with the name Dallas. That is cultural impact on a national scale.

Atlanta has nothing like that associated with its name on the broad demographic scale throughout generations in America. At this time at least. If you asked that same question about Atlanta to that same group, what are you gonna get in response? Who knows? Because Atlanta does not have that national scale, generational cultural impact yet.

Um, what? Everywhere I go nationally when I say I'm from Atlanta they'll reply "Hotlanta" or "The ATL" which makes me cringe a bit. If I go abroad, people associate Atlanta with hip-hop (in Korea they do the A hand gesture symbol to me) and also say CNN/Coke.

It's not just hip-hop in the 90s/00s. It's right now with Migos, Lil Yachty, Lil Nas X(Old town Road), 21 Savage, Young Thug (Havana - He took me back to East Atlanta, na-na-na). (Fun fact: Kanye West grew up in Chicago but he was born in Atlanta).

The Avengers and numerous Marvel/Hollywood movies filmed here and worked on in Atlanta Studios (Pinewood Studios). Numerous TV shows like Walking Dead/Stranger Things filmed here. Tyler Perry opening one of the biggest studios in the world. You have the Civil Rights Movement/Martin Luther King Jr. CNN, CDC, TBS, TNT, Cartoon Network, The Weather Channel, so many Love & Hiphop/Real Housewives type shows. It's all ingrained in the culture.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by cabasse

it's not just hip hop though. it's a wide variety of music, and other media as well - tv, movies. cartoons - cartoon network/adult swim.

I'm sure it does. I'm in no way denying that Atlanta is one of THE major media centers in the US, and in the world really.

I know that it is. It's just that I really doubt that most people in the country, much less the world, recognize that. Atlanta really has no widely discernible brand. And brands impact culture. Nashville is known globally for what it does. It has a unique, widely-known brand. I don't think Atlanta really does.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by Labtec

Um, what? Everywhere I go nationally when I say I'm from Atlanta they'll reply "Hotlanta" or "The ATL" which makes me cringe a bit. If I go abroad, people associate Atlanta with hip-hop (in Korea they do the A hand gesture symbol to me) and also say CNN/Coke.

It's not just hip-hop in the 90s/00s. It's right now with Migos, Lil Yachty, Lil Nas X(Old town Road), 21 Savage, Young Thug (Havana - He took me back to East Atlanta, na-na-na).

The Avengers and numerous Marvel/Hollywood movies filmed here and worked on in Atlanta Studios (Pinewood Studios). Numerous TV shows like Walking Dead/Stranger Things filmed here. Tyler Perry opening one of the biggest studios in the world. You have the Civil Rights Movement/Martin Luther King Jr. CNN, CDC, TBS, TNT, Cartoon Network, The Weather Channel, so many Love & Hiphop/Real Housewives type shows. It's all ingrained in the culture.

We're speaking different languages here.

I'm not concerned with flavor of the month stuff. You're mainly talking about commercial media output from a place. It could really be from anywhere.

What is Atlanta's brand? And do people across multiple generations recognize it? That is cultural impact. A place has to have a very strong identity to have a brand that stands the test of time, and to have lasting impact on a national scale. And the only 4 cities in the south who have that right now are New Orleans, Miami, Nashville, and Dallas. Right or wrong, they have very strong and produce immediately recognizable images in the minds of a huge swath of the population. That is cultural impact. New York has that, LA has that, San Francisco has that... Atlanta does not, not by a long shot.

[edale]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Don’t twist my words to fit your narrative here. I never claimed anything like that.

There are definitely linkages like you suggest. I'm not denying that. But that reality now is not what it was back in the 1970s and into the 1980s, when you could really see much more of a direct influence of New Yorkers in Miami. It's just not that way anymore, as Miami has grown and changed dramatically over the last 4 decades. And as Miami has grown, it has grown more and more away from that "New York connection". That's why I don't see how Miami could possibly be termed a "New York with palm trees"... because that it just simply not apparent anymore.

Miami-Dade will likely be 75% Hispanic in less than 10 years from now, and it will be 20% Black. That is not like New York at all. Even Broward County is likely 30% Hispanic right now.

The greater connection to NYC you're looking for would be found further north in Palm Beach County. But that is not Miami.

1) I don't have a narrative, so I'm not twisting your words to fit anything. You seem incredibly sensitive about this, and I'm not really sure why.

2) I made my initial comment about 'half of South Flordida is ex-New Yorkers' as a bit of a joke. Hyperbole. Of course not literally half of South Florda is NY retirees.

3) I wasn't around in the 70s and 80s, so I'm not sure what you're referencing when you keep coming back to this.

4) I never said Miami should be called "New York with palm trees". In fact, I said that they were different cities in just about every way.

5) Notice how I continuously said either South Florida or Miami/South Florida. As the dominate city of a larger urbanized area, Miami is often used to discuss Southeast Florida more generally. The demographics are not the same in each region...I never said they were? I said that both cities have large numbers of the same ethnic groups, which are fairly unique in the US. Puerto Ricans, Jamaicans, Cubans, Domincans, Hatians, Jews. There is a fair amount of cultural cross-pollination as a result.

6) Hispanics can be black and white. One is an ethnicity, the other is a race. Not sure at all what point you're making with that. In fact, Miami's hispanic community skews whiter than average due to 'white Cubans'.

[edale]

Originally Posted by pj3000

I'm sure it does. I'm in no way denying that Atlanta is one of THE major media centers in the US, and in the world really.

I know that it is. It's just that I really doubt that most people in the country, much less the world, recognize that. Atlanta really has no widely discernible brand. And brands impact culture. Nashville is known globally for what it does. It has a unique, widely-known brand. I don't think Atlanta really does.

Wow. What an incredibly white thing to say. I don't even know how to respond!

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by The North One

Now compare that to Atlanta, a city where pretty much anything culturally relevant that is southern comes out of and revolves around.

That's an interesting point. What is it? Because I don't associate southern culture with Atlanta, in particular.

[iheartthed]

Originally Posted by pj3000

We're speaking different languages here.

I'm not concerned with flavor of the month stuff. You're mainly talking about commercial media output from a place. It could really be from anywhere.

What is Atlanta's brand? And do people across multiple generations recognize it? That is cultural impact. A place has to have a very strong identity to have a brand that stands the test of time, and to have lasting impact on a national scale. And the only 4 cities in the south who have that right now are New Orleans, Miami, Nashville, and Dallas. Right or wrong, they have very strong and produce immediately recognizable images in the minds of a huge swath of the population. That is cultural impact. New York has that, LA has that, San Francisco has that... Atlanta does not, not by a long shot.

I don't think brand is cultural impact. Nantucket has a brand. The Hamptons have a brand. I'd argue that neither place has had a strong cultural impact. There probably isn't a single person reading this thread that is not familiar with a piece of media that originated in Atlanta.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by edale

1) I don't have a narrative, so I'm not twisting your words to fit anything. You seem incredibly sensitive about this, and I'm not really sure why.

2) I made my initial comment about 'half of South Flordida is ex-New Yorkers' as a bit of a joke. Hyperbole. Of course not literally half of South Florda is NY retirees.

3) I wasn't around in the 70s and 80s, so I'm not sure what you're referencing when you keep coming back to this.

4) I never said Miami should be called "New York with palm trees". In fact, I said that they were different cities in just about every way.

5) Notice how I continuously said either South Florida or Miami/South Florida. As the dominate city of a larger urbanized area, Miami is often used to discuss Southeast Florida more generally. The demographics are not the same in each region...I never said they were? I said that both cities have large numbers of the same ethnic groups, which are fairly unique in the US. Puerto Ricans, Jamaicans, Cubans, Domincans, Hatians, Jews. There is a fair amount of cultural cross-pollination as a result.

6) Hispanics can be black and white. One is an ethnicity, the other is a race. Not sure at all what point you're making with that. In fact, Miami's hispanic community skews whiter than average due to 'white Cubans'.

I don't need the rundown. I've lived in Miami since the early 1990s -- so I know the area pretty well. And it's quite obvious that you do not.

And... if you weren't around in the 80s, then I now know for certain that I'm not going to listen to pretty much anything you say.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by edale

Wow. What an incredibly white thing to say. I don't even know how to respond!

Why go there? What is this even trying to say? Why is that a "white thing" to say? Actually, I'm glad you don't even know how to respond.

Since my mom's white and my dad's black, I guess I just must act more white on Thursdays or something.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by iheartthed

I don't think brand is cultural impact. Nantucket has a brand. The Hamptons have a brand. I'd argue that neither place has had a strong cultural impact. There probably isn't a single person reading this thread that is not familiar with a piece of media that originated in Atlanta.

You're right. But I would wager that most of those people don't know that it originated in Atlanta, or at least don't associate that piece of media with Atlanta.

So yes, Atlanta's media output is in our national collective consciousness, no doubt. But do you think most people really associate most of it with Atlanta, specifically?

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Strong branding is everything. To me, a strong cultural identity that people associate with a place provides strong cultural impact. I don't care about current "cultural exports".

That's a very...American way of looking at things, I guess.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

Originally Posted by pj3000

What is Atlanta's brand? And do people across multiple generations recognize it? That is cultural impact. A place has to have a very strong identity to have a brand that stands the test of time, and to have lasting impact on a national scale. And the only 4 cities in the south who have that right now are New Orleans, Miami, Nashville, and Dallas. Right or wrong, they have very strong and produce immediately recognizable images in the minds of a huge swath of the population. That is cultural impact. New York has that, LA has that, San Francisco has that... Atlanta does not, not by a long shot.

Even just as far as brand goes though, I think Atlanta's role as the "black mecca" is more important and more relevant today than Dallas's cowboys and dated 80s big hair-type stereotypes.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by pj3000

New Orleans
Miami
Nashville
Dallas

There is large-scale and widely-understood cultural identity associated with these four cities in Americans' minds.

Their names alone instantly conjure up similar and familiar images, lifestyles, activities, etc. for the broad American and international populace. These very strong cultural identities are solidified in the minds of generations of people.

These four places are the only southern cities on that level.

There's no denying that Atlanta does this as well.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

That's a very...American way of looking at things, I guess.

Guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one!

Maybe. But call it "brand" or "identity" or "image", it's something that resonates with us as humans strongly about a place. It's not really an American thing at all.

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Even just as far as brand goes though, I think Atlanta's role as the "black mecca" is more important and more relevant today than Dallas's cowboys and dated 80s big hair-type stereotypes.

Well yeah, definitely. And I would also say it's much more important than Mardi Gras partying or country music or beach vacations. But social importance is not really the topic, right?

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by KB0679

There's no denying that Atlanta does this as well.

Well, I'm denying it right here until proven otherwise.

What strong image/identity does (and has) the name "Atlanta" conjure up for the nation and world? Not for a subset of the population, but for the whole bunch of us in the connected world?

Atlanta simply does not have that strong of a widespread association with an certain image, lifestyle, activity, attribute, etc.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Even just as far as brand goes though, I think Atlanta's role as the "black mecca" is more important and more relevant today than Dallas's cowboys and dated 80s big hair-type stereotypes.

This. Atlanta's brand centers on Black people and Black culture, starting in the 60's with the whole "The City Too Busy to Hate" slogan which differentiated it from other Southern cities where resistance to desegregation was often violent in nature. Atlanta was also one of the few cities in the country that did not riot in the aftermath of the assassination of its native son MLK. This evolved in the post-Civil Rights era with the election of its first Black mayor and all of its mayors have been Black ever since. Atlanta is unapologetically Black across the board, from the ratchet to the refined and everything in between. MLK, John Lewis, Andrew Young, the AUC, the entertainment industry, the political and business class, several affluent majority Black neighborhoods, strip clubs, FreakNic, Black LGBT, religion, etc. Hell, the airport doubles as an African art/Black history museum.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Well, I'm denying it right here until proven otherwise.

What strong image/identity does (and has) the name "Atlanta" conjure up for the nation and world? Not for a subset of the population, but for the whole bunch of us in the connected world?

Atlanta simply does not have that strong of a widespread association with an certain image, lifestyle, activity, attribute, etc.

See my post above.

I'm already anticipating the nature of your objection.

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Maybe. But call it "brand" or "identity" or "image", it's something that resonates with us as humans strongly about a place. It's not really an American thing at all.

Maybe we're talking about different things here, but I don't think there's necessarily a correlation between identity or brand and resonance or importance.

For example, (as an extreme example) a place like Easter Island has a very succinct, strong identity as being home to the famous moai. But what's the actual impact or influence that that has on anyone's life? Not much. "Atlanta" as a brand might not be as easily identifiable, but millions of people around the world are consuming media & products that are from Atlanta everyday - even if often unwittingly. But all the same they coalesce into something that is very much "of" Atlanta.

Whether or not people know that is another matter, I think.

[pj3000]

Originally Posted by KB0679

See my post above.

I'm already anticipating the nature of your objection.

Everything you say is accurate. There's no denying that. Atlanta has huge cultural importance and impact for African Americans, in particular, and for our country as a whole. But unfortunately, I would bet that a very large percentage of our country does not associate Atlanta with that importance/impact.

You say that "Atlanta's brand centers on Black people and Black culture".

Ok, then the cultural identity is Atlanta = Black

I agree. I don't deny that one bit.

But you'll be very hard-pressed to find the majority of the world fluent in this fact.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by MonkeyRonin

Maybe we're talking about different things here, but I don't think there's necessarily a correlation between identity or brand and resonance or importance.

For example, (as an extreme example) a place like Easter Island has a very succinct, strong identity as being home to the famous moai. But what's the actual impact or influence that that has on anyone's life? Not much. "Atlanta" as a brand might not be as easily identifiable, but millions of people around the world are consuming media & products that are from Atlanta everyday - even if often unwittingly. But all the same they coalesce into something that is very much "of" Atlanta.

Whether or not people know that is another matter, I think.

Yep. Atlanta is also widely viewed as the Capital of the South. It is the only major metropolitan area with an unquestionably Southern identity located in the heart of the region and not in border states. Its geographic sphere of influence is completely within the South, and it played a critical, outsized role in the two biggest events that have shaped the South to date, namely the Civil War and the Civil Rights movement. It is the logistical crossroads of the region and practically every government agency has its South(east)ern regional offices/headquarters in Atlanta.

[KB0679]

Originally Posted by pj3000

Everything you say is accurate. There's no denying that.

You say that "Atlanta's brand centers on Black people and Black culture".

Ok, then the cultural identity is Atlanta = Black

I agree. I don't deny that one bit.

But you'll be very hard-pressed to find the majority of the world fluent in this fact.

That's an unprovable claim for even the cities you mentioned and their claim to fame. Your standard is unreasonable.

At least Atlanta can say it brought the whole world to its doorstep when it hosted the most premier, recurring international gathering in modern times.

On a national level though, absolutely.