Where Is The Rust Belt?

[Centropolis]

denver has pretty nice building materials, and the shares some of the red brick building aesthetic (and building style) with st. louis (and some styles that are more chicago-y). makes sense as railroads were reaching hard for denver from both cities early on.

lenafrank.files.wordpress.com

[Centropolis]

chicago was a little slow with the railroads but got some adderall and a bazillion dollars from uncle new york.

[Centropolis]

denver:

https://goo.gl/maps/Ce2E4Gpx4hFPuVUg9

the one story flat roofed denver "railroad" house, which is shared with st. louis (primarily) but of which many blocks exist around pre-war chicagoland:

https://goo.gl/maps/YtMv2pkzKaQUs1n28

variations include multifamily connected units.

https://goo.gl/maps/Ku2PmhN3WCTKT4uq9

painted/porched version of a st. louis type in denver:

https://goo.gl/maps/3Zd2W8Nb7rYy3UoA6

the 30s/40s suburban type housing is VERY metro st. louis:

https://goo.gl/maps/m46e6MXMwW2hZEE8A

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

denver has pretty nice building materials, and the shares some of the red brick building aesthetic (and building style) with st. louis (and some styles that are more chicago-y). makes sense as railroads were reaching hard for denver from both cities early on.

lenafrank.files.wordpress.com

this is consequently a good map that illustrates how st. louis/missouri capital was instrumental in building texas. you can see that from the mopac to st. louis financed buildings in downtown dallas...the cattle drives to missouri to the banking history of texas. moses austin of course buried outside of st. louis and stephen austin was "elected to and served in the legislature of the Missouri Territory. As a member of the territorial legislature, he was "influential in obtaining a charter for the struggling Bank of St. Louis."

moses austin was a pricipal founder of the bank of st. louis. it was the panic of 1819 that sent him to spanish texas for the first time after losing his fortune in st. louis.

[Handro]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

chicago was a little slow with the railroads but got some adderall and a bazillion dollars from uncle new york.

I know you're trying to troll but that's correct, Chicago was the small town that east coasters decided to bet on vs. Cincinatti (which was actually more developed at the time) and St. Louis.

Chicago then became one of the world's greatest boom towns and was the fastest growing city in the world for about 100 years from the mid-19th to mid-20th centuries.

Originally Posted by pj3000

Pittsburgh seems to have a ton of yellow brick... mainly in older suburban areas 1920s-1950s

Do other cities have a lot of this? I find it rather ugly.

Chicago has a lot of yellow brick on the far northwest side, and I also mostly hate it. It has a very dingy vibe, mostly because of the style of building it seems to have been popular with in mid-20th century. However, it can look really nice on the right structure.

For every 10 of these:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9880...7i16384!8i8192

We get one of these:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/58...9!4d-87.785489

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by Centropolis

chicago was a little slow with the railroads

it was?

the Galena & Chicago Union RR (predecessor to the Chicago & Northwestern RR) opened in 1848, one of the earliest railroads in the deep interior of the nation (ie. not pennsylvania or upstate new york).

Originally Posted by Handro

Chicago has a lot of yellow brick on the far northwest side, and I also mostly hate it. It has a very dingy vibe, mostly because of the style of building it seems to have been popular with in mid-20th century. However, it can look really nice on the right structure.

For every 10 of these:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9880...7i16384!8i8192

We get one of these:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/58...9!4d-87.785489

yeah, those mid-century yellow-brick chicago 3-flats in the outer hoods/inner burbs are not my favorite either.

but an earlier generation of masons could still do nice things with yellow brick.

here's our old 6-flat in edgewater (built in 1926): https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9908...7i16384!8i8192

[MonkeyRonin]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

yeah, those mid-century yellow-brick chicago 3-flats are not my favorite either.

but earlier generations could still do nice things with yellow brick.

here's our old 6-flat in edgewater (built in 1926): https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9908...7i16384!8i8192

Architecturally it's a nice building, but I'm not a fan of the colour. I am a big fan of the yellow hued brick typical of London though: https://goo.gl/maps/DmH2qTvLrp4G31mx5

[Steely Dan]

^ that london brick looks mainly brown, not yellow. i can even see some pinks and oranges in there.

in fact, it's not terribly dissimilar from some types of the chicago common brick, though the tuckpointing is obviously a lot neater as its on a street facade.

[eschaton]

Pittsburgh has several different kinds of brick.

The "classic" brick on 19th century buildings is a deep red brick which is similar to St. Louis. There's some variation in terms of color, but I think this is mostly based upon whether the building has been powerwashed, had a red stain applied at one time, etc.

In the early 20th century, the use of facade bricks of different colors became common. Thus you have the uremic yellow color. You can also find orange brick, off-white brick...basically any color brick can come in other than that blue brick they have in the United Kingdom. A lot of times early 20th century developers alternated brick colors to make houses with identical plans more distinctive.

There is also this weird, deeply textured brick which was popular in the 1920s. I believe most of these buildings are actually quite red, but the heavy texture on the brick face made them soak up smog like a sponge, which means many of them are now a deep reddish brown/black. This type of brick is very common on Pittsburgh's version of a two-flat - mostly because we only really built two-flats during the same time period.

[Centropolis]

i was just talking sheit re: chicago RRs

the classic st louis brick almost has a lightly charred appearance at times, sometimes with black flecks. in cincy it seems like the brick is orangier-red. not sure how much is geology and how much is process but theres coal seams around st louis.

[edale]

Originally Posted by eschaton

In the early 20th century, the use of facade bricks of different colors became common. Thus you have the uremic yellow color.

This has to be the ugliest color of brick out there. I'm normally a fan of narrow streets and rowhomes, but this street scene is just totally depressing looking and unappealing to me. The ugly awnings, cluttered stoops, abundance of overhead wires, cars parked on the street/sidewalk, very narrow sidewalks, grey skies...

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by edale

This has to be the ugliest color of brick out there.

i once owned a 1920s house with this kind of brick, however the tuck pointing was lightly colored and the foundation and embellishment was limestone and all of the surfaces were clean. that kind of coloration doesnt stand up well to weathering/dirt/etc, though.

that street sure is a funny slice of philadelphia book-ended by pittsburgh.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by edale

This has to be the ugliest color of brick out there. I'm normally a fan of narrow streets and rowhomes, but this street scene is just totally depressing looking and unappealing to me. The ugly awnings, cluttered stoops, abundance of overhead wires, cars parked on the street/sidewalk, very narrow sidewalks, grey skies...

That's a student rental area, so there's very little incentive to increase the curb appeal.

[Steely Dan]

the heavy overcast in that particular streetview certainly doesn't do it any favors either.

that street is a wee bit cheerier on a sunny day: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4330...7i13312!8i6656

[JManc]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the heavy overcast in that particular streetview certainly doesn't do it any favors either.

that street is a wee bit cheerier on a sunny day: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4330...7i13312!8i6656

That reminds me of the horrible color of brick used everywhere in the UK. it's depressing and drab.

[IrishIllini]

Originally Posted by Handro

I know you're trying to troll but that's correct, Chicago was the small town that east coasters decided to bet on vs. Cincinatti (which was actually more developed at the time) and St. Louis.

Chicago then became one of the world's greatest boom towns and was the fastest growing city in the world for about 100 years from the mid-19th to mid-20th centuries.



Chicago has a lot of yellow brick on the far northwest side, and I also mostly hate it. It has a very dingy vibe, mostly because of the style of building it seems to have been popular with in mid-20th century. However, it can look really nice on the right structure.

For every 10 of these:
https://www.google.com/maps/@41.9880...7i16384!8i8192

We get one of these:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/58...9!4d-87.785489

Chicago also had a number of natural advantages over St. Louis/Cincinnati. The biggie being Lake Michigan and the Chicago/Des Plaines/Illinois Rivers being tributaries to the Mississippi River.

[Steely Dan]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Chicago also had a number of natural advantages over St. Louis/Cincinnati. The biggie being Lake Michigan and the Chicago/Des Plaines/Illinois Rivers being tributaries to the Mississippi River.

in the early days, new york capital certainly saw chicago's position at one of the "end points" of the great lakes system (the other being duluth) and their city's connection to the great lakes via the erie canal as a BIG reason to be bullish on chicago.

[Centropolis]

Originally Posted by IrishIllini

Chicago also had a number of natural advantages over St. Louis/Cincinnati. The biggie being Lake Michigan and the Chicago/Des Plaines/Illinois Rivers being tributaries to the Mississippi River.

chicago had to use iron and BRAUN to lift itself from a cold swamp. at one time st. louis was also in a great natural position on a limestone saddle at the center of all of the important rivers, and essentially with its own saltwater port at new orleans (occasionally fruit ships from central america and smaller ocean going navy vessels would dock at st. louis). but yes, new york saw chicago as convenient, which is what mattered.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by pj3000

That's completely false. Toronto was a major location of heavy industry. Toronto became more diversified and prominent than Buffalo, but Toronto was the heavy manufacturing center (foundries, mills, factories, and later automobile plants) and the major rail and shipping center for all of industrial Ontario.

Steel mills, iron foundries, machinery, engine, tool, and vehicle factories, oil refining, grain milling, livestock yards and processing, coke, iron ore and coal shipping and docks, large-scale brewing and distilling... these do not fall in the category of "light industry".

Toronto did all of the stuff Great Lakes industrial cities did... but becoming the center of so much more for Canada allowed it become what it is today. I think it's THE prime example of rustbelt success.

I think of the "rust belt" as iron and steel industries (with "Fordist" mass production) which were historically dominant. Detroit is the classic example, New York being a "light industry" city (with the clothing industry being dominant).

Employment by industry, 1930/1931:

Baltimore

Iron and steel 12,130
Clothing 12,092

Chicago

Iron and steel 55,643
Clothing 21,314

Cleveland

Iron and steel 37,257
Clothing 7,530

Montreal

Iron and steel 18,421
Clothing 17,884

Philadelphia

Clothing 21,825
Iron and steel 20,505

Toronto

Iron and steel 14,297
Clothing 11,387

Toronto was a "bit" heavier than Montreal but overall closer to Montreal than to Chicago and Cleveland in its industrial structure.

[suburbanite]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

the heavy overcast in that particular streetview certainly doesn't do it any favors either.

that street is a wee bit cheerier on a sunny day: https://www.google.com/maps/@40.4330...7i13312!8i6656

Red brick on the sides here. The inverse Chicago.