Walterdale replacement and discussion

[Coldrsx]

What a mess, again.

[CMD UW]

^Ohhh boy, not good.

[Makenosmallplans]

Argh. Not again.

[Black Star]

Originally Posted by Airboy

I was told about substandard welds. That is why the work is taking longer because every weld is being redone mostly on the product from Korea.

The story states the COE had inspectors on site in Korea. Another swing and a miss for the COE. Before any project like this is even started the procedures are to be inspected and then constantly evaluated and overseen during construction!! Odd.

[edmontonoilers89]

And another one...what a surprise.

[McBoo]

This is really serious and requires independent, possibly even police criminal investigation - regardless of the veracity of the civil claims and counter-claims.

I mean, we're only talking public safety and human lives here ...

CoE Transportation is looking ridiculous. Sorry, I mean even more ridiculous if such can be possible.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by McBoo

This is really serious and requires independent, possibly even police criminal investigation - regardless of the veracity of the civil claims and counter-claims.

I mean, we're only talking public safety and human lives here ...

CoE Transportation is looking ridiculous. Sorry, I mean even more ridiculous if such can be possible.

It is not possible. The public have NO confidence whatsoever in the City managing any aspect of transportation projects or much else for that matter. I wish this project had moved forth as a P3 or project management outsourced from project inception to construction completion.

[s4.audios]

Not much the city could have done could they? Awarded the job to the wrong bidder from the get go.

I remember lot of people were upset when it was initially announced that steel will be coming from Korea, and quality was one of the main concerns.

[EdmTrekker]

Originally Posted by s4.audios

Not much the city could have done could they? Awarded the job to the wrong bidder from the get go.

I remember lot of people were upset when it was initially announced that steel will be coming from Korea, and quality was one of the main concerns.

Subcontractors should not be subjected to gag orders. The City could have implemented a project plan room that the entire team used. Unfettered communication and reporting of issues should be transparent. This could have been defined in the Bid and Contract Documents.

[240glt]

Originally Posted by s4.audios

Not much the city could have done could they? Awarded the job to the wrong bidder from the get go.

I remember lot of people were upset when it was initially announced that steel will be coming from Korea, and quality was one of the main concerns.

Korean and Chinese steel is known to be rich in carbon, it is a low grade steel commonly used for these types of applications. Canadian steel is a much higher grade and costlier, but is more suited for higher grade applications. Sounds like the issue is the welds, which is a little scary as the most important part of a weld is the part you can't see. To fully analyze a weld it needs to be x-rayed. If the QC was not followed for the welding portion of the work there could be serious issues down the road

[240glt]

Originally Posted by EdmTrekker

It is not possible. The public have NO confidence whatsoever in the City managing any aspect of transportation projects or much else for that matter. I wish this project had moved forth as a P3 or project management outsourced from project inception to construction completion.

I am in awe at some of the stuff that goes on in this city. I have worked in a dozen other municipalities on public projects, I have never seen the level of ineptitude in other municipalities as I have seen in this city. It's quite shocking really.

Edit: correction: I did a health centre in Pangnirtung Nunavut that was worse, but that was an SNC Lavalin botch job

[McBoo]

Dovetails with the city auditor's finding that Transportation routinely signed off on projects it knew didn't meet specifications outlined in the contract.

If it didn't do dis-service to backwoods Arkansas country bumpkins I'd say CoE Transportation behave like, well, backwoods Arkansas country bumpkins.

As to WDB, we can't wait for the lawsuits to be settled, need an inspection before anything else gets done on that site.

[Airboy]

Never had any luck with the Quebec Based contractors in Nunavut.

[SHOFEAR]

Not surprised.

COE staff are too busy dealing with bus pads not being installed monolithically with the concrete sidewalk in various neighborhoods or raising ridiculous concerns about thermal expansion of concrete pipe during install in industry seminars.

Just contract out the entire engineering group to private industry if you want results.

[Makenosmallplans]

City responds... everything is fine...

http://edmontonjournal.com/business/...lding-problems

[240glt]

"..these things happen all the time.."

Jeebus, this city is truly being run by idiots

[McBoo]

Well, to be fair, if they really do have an independent third party on site, that's re-assuring.

[mick]

These are allegations in a statement of claim. You cannot take them as the hard and fast truth. The bottom line is that a sub is suing a general contractor because the relationship went sour; those types of claims are usually messy and, from the looks of it, this one will require extensive expert testimony to unravel.

As mentioned, does the following not address the joints issue:
ISL Engineering is the city’s independent expert on site monitoring the work, and that includes documenting every weld and X-ray for quality control, each steel deficiency and how it’s been corrected, he said.

Shofear - how is this potential problem, as described, not the fault of private industry contractors?

[Hardhatdan]

Yeah, honestly the city's response is what needs to be heard. It's exactly the quality process that needs to be in place.
The big question I would have is did the steel leave the fabricator with known defects, someone made a decision to fix it here and that's fair. If it left and they found it here when they starting erecting, that is bad...but I honestly have to belive that wasn't the case. NDT on structural or pressure welding is just day to day business.
I lament, but ive seen the use of third party inspectors at fabricators facilities, mostly around mechanical process equipment for industrial facilities, to be an absolute disaster. It gets 'inspected' gets a shipping release then shows up only to be peeled apart and brought up to code and spec. It's certainly and sadly common place in the private sector as well for broad procurement programs.
That said, another marquee project for the city mired in Controversy and bad press...I wish the city could get out in front of these things. If they know a suit is being filed and will be a matter of public record it might be best to get out in front of it for damage control.
Lastly, the bid evaluation...they need to really step up that process, certainly beyond lowest price on these bigger spotlight projects, if that's all they are using.

[Hardhatdan]

Originally Posted by 240glt

"..these things happen all the time.."

Jeebus, this city is truly being run by idiots

Weld failure does happen all the time, it's actually expected as part of the process, but usually the group doing the welding fixes it,not a third and it usually doesn't result in a lawsuit.
My guess is the failure rate was so high they didn't trust the fabricator to fix it, or thee wasn't time, and they decided to ship the steel and repair it on site...expensive but maybe the plan was to backcharge the fabricator.
Anyways, lots of moving pieces and another black eye regardless of the truth.