London's Malls

[Djeffery]

Makes sense. That part of the parking lot is probably used only a few days a year (Black Friday, Boxing Day and maybe a few other busy days around Christmas). I don't know what mid-rise is defined as, but I suspect they will get major pushback from the neighbourhood, probably for anything, but especially if they go higher than the 3.5 storeys that are next door. I wonder if a parking garage component will be included in their plans and if any of that would be public parking for the mall.

[MrSlippery519]

Originally Posted by Djeffery

Makes sense. That part of the parking lot is probably used only a few days a year (Black Friday, Boxing Day and maybe a few other busy days around Christmas). I don't know what mid-rise is defined as, but I suspect they will get major pushback from the neighbourhood, probably for anything, but especially if they go higher than the 3.5 storeys that are next door. I wonder if a parking garage component will be included in their plans and if any of that would be public parking for the mall.

A mid rise building in most places is considered 4-11 stories.

The South side is the old Target correct? If so that would be a great place for a nice 8-11 story apartment along with some ground level retail and a transit hub to add to it.

You are right per usual there would be major push back as some people would rather have an empty (unsafe) building sitting there

[Djeffery]

Originally Posted by MrSlippery519

A mid rise building in most places is considered 4-11 stories.

The South side is the old Target correct? If so that would be a great place for a nice 8-11 story apartment along with some ground level retail and a transit hub to add to it.

You are right per usual there would be major push back as some people would rather have an empty (unsafe) building sitting there

Yes, the side where the old Target (current Marshalls and Rec Room) is. This wouldn't be connected to the mall though from what the story sounds like. Sounds like they want to build on the parking lot at the extreme south end, basically that square adjacent to Sunnyside, with Jacksway and North Centre on either side of it. The parking lot is rarely used, other than those days I mentioned above, and if they move the transit hub over there, then they can gain that parking over on the Richmond side where the current transit hub is. Unless they decide to build something over there too, which I could see happening.

[Stevo26]

Originally Posted by ssiguy

A lot of you people are far too young to remember why Westmount expanded so much in the first place and frankly it did seem logical.

Westmount was just a tiny collection of stores until 1973 when it added 50 stores and became the largest mall in SWO. It became THE mall in London and business soared after 1977 because that's when the Guy Lombardo Bridge was built. Before that to get from north of the Thames to Westmount required going either all the way thru Byron or going all the way down Wharncliffe. Neither of those options were very appealing. The 402 was also starting to open in segments and was completed by the early 80s and Westmount was the easiest mall to be access from those Middlesex and Lambton regional shoppers.After the GLB was built literally tens of thousands of new potential customers were within a few minute drive and with the 402 regional shoppers were also new customers. Even Eaton's saw the potential as it replaced the old Horizon dept store, that's right Eaton's was not built there initially.

Westmount itself was also one of the fastest growing areas of the city and the demographics were young families which is exactly what Westmount wanted and London's economy was booming in the late 80s and it's population was also.. Masonville didn't open until 1983 and it wasn't near as big as it is now so the huge Westmount expansion in the late 80s made sense. I think a lot of you seem to think Westmount expanded just to follow a craze of mall building in the 80s which certainly didn't help but Westmount's expansion did have some very solid economics to back it up.

Interesting. Had no idea Westmount was that popular back in the 1970s. Nor that it was once the largest shopping mall in southwestern Ontario.

From my occasional visits to visit relatives in London throughout the mid to late 1970s, I was always under the impression that White Oaks was the big, popular mall.

[Djeffery]

Within about a 3 year stretch in the late 80's, Galleria was built, Westmount for the most part was totally rebuilt, Masonville almost doubled in size and White Oaks put on their second big expansion (only a couple years after their first big expansion). It was crazy how fast retail exploded in this city. All the chains wanted to be in all the big malls. It didn't take long for that early 90's recession to take it's toll though, and all of those malls charged huge rent. I remember the Channers Menswear owner saying back when they built their new store at Commissioners and Wonderland saying he would pay for the new store in no time by not paying Westmount rent, and having control over his hours. I always liked Westmount after they rebuilt, because of the free indoor parking, they even used to have a car wash down there. I just wish they had a reason to go there anymore. White Oaks I never liked. Even after the huge renovation they did a couple years ago, it's still a dumpy mall to me. Whereas Masonville looks great after their reno at the same time.

[SpongeG]

CF Masonville Adds New Retailers Amid Increasing Mall Productivity
March 05, 2020

By Mario Toneguzzi
Retail Insider

Since a redevelopment in 2016, CF Masonville Place in London, Ontario, has seen some significant growth as the shopping centre is being buoyed by strong demographics in the expanding marketplace.

Sandra Lorentiu, General Manager of CF Masonville Place, said the mall has been really fortunate in the market to bring unique retailers that are not available within southwestern Ontario such as Zara, Disney, Lululemon, The Keg, and the Rec Room.

“That continues to allow us to have a strong foothold in the market and positions us as the predominant destination within southwestern Ontario,” said Lorentiu of the Cadillac Fairview property.

...

“This year we have the likes of Nike joining us as well too. A Bailey Nelson which is an eyewear concept as well we are expanding our American Eagle, expanding our Shoppers Drug Mart Beauty Boutique concept and next year an exciting component for us from a retail perspective is that we’ll be enhancing and renovating our food court.”

The food court right now produces over $2,000 per square foot in sales and the shopping centre will be adding more seating and replacing the existing seating. Out of the 14 food vendors on site, 10 of them will be bringing in new concepts. Enhancements will be made to the washrooms as well as the introduction of a universal washroom.

...

https://www.retail-insider.com/retai...l-productivity

[Djeffery]

Always amazes me how that mall bounces back from adversity. I did a lot of work in there when Sears and Target left and I would talk to Brian O'Hoski, (first I heard he wasn't the GM there anymore), and he would be like "no worries, we got this".

[ssiguy]

When I was growing up, London had way too many malls most of which has been weeded out turning into plazas and big box centres. Except for niche malls with a captive audience like Cherryhill {originally known as Westtown Plaza Mall}, London has settled into basically 2 big malls that do not compete with a resurging downtown smack in the middle. White Oaks will never be as appealing as Masonville but it has a great geographic advantage being at the 401 & 402 meaning anyone coming to the city on the routes will automatically head there or downtown but the trek thru London traffic to get to Masonville is simply to torturous for most to bear.

Also, despite their dominance in London, neither Masonville nor White Oaks are particularly large. Even in Southern Ontario, Hamilton, Windsor, KWC, and St.Catharines all have significantly larger malls. Hell, even Nanaimo's Woodgroove and Kelowna's Orchard Park are much bigger malls.

[Djeffery]

Well, good for Nanaimo and Kelowna. Those are probably THE shopping areas for those cities as well. Devonshire and Pen Centre are also regional centres that also were built to attract cross border shopping. Cambridge Centre has an arena and an empty anchor, is barely 5% larger than White Oaks. Lime Ridge is expected, Hamilton is a large city. It's also the only mall in Hamilton larger than London's 2 large malls. Same goes for KWC (and the other cities you mention). Maybe if London had developed to the south instead of the north, White Oaks would have grown into a huge regional mall and Masonville might not have been more than a neighbourhood plaza.

[jammer139]

Changes are coming for London Malls. Recent purchase of White Oaks by Westdel Developments add momentum to future mall projects.



https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/londo...olve-1.6933682

[MolsonExport]

Meanwhile Westmount gets deader by the hour. What a sad sack of a mall. I recall moving here in 2005...we lived across the street, and the mall was packed with stores. Very soon after, there was a lemming-like exodus, as the DumbCentre expanded at Wonderland and Southdale Rds. The second floor started emptying out fast...first replaced by popups and trinket sellers, then by empty storefronts. The disease metastasized to the first floor. Within one year, a third of the storefronts were empty.

There are maybe 15 shops left in Westmount, along with a few trinket sellers (and of course, the cellphone bling slingers).