Do suburbanites use a ridiculousy extensive definition of "downtown"?

[Docere]

In Toronto people in the suburbs often refer to the whole pre-1998 city of Toronto as "downtown." Is this a uniquely Toronto thing or does this happen in other North American cities as well?

[mikecolley]

Definitely! I live in Buckhead, 10 miles from downtown Atlanta. My suburban family members sometimes ask me if I like living downtown. I start to say "I've never lived downtown," before realizing they're referring to all of Atlanta as downtown.

[Steely Dan]

i think it happens everywhere.

in chicagoland it would not be unusual for someone out in dupage or lake counties to tell their friend that they're "heading downtown this weekend to go to a cubs game".

wrigley field in 4.5 miles north of the loop.


there's probably a somewhat proportional relationship between a suburbanite's distance from "downtown" and how generous their geographic definition of "downtown" is.

ie. someone from evanston or oak park (inner ring burbs) is far less likely to consider wrigely field "downtown" than someone from carol stream or gurnee (outer burbs).

[Docere]

One of the "explanations" (or excuses?) I hear is maybe an urbanist like you can appreciate the difference between "downtown" and "urban" but to someone who lives in the suburbs it's really hard to tell the difference between the Beaches (5 miles east of the CBD) and King and Spadina!

[Obadno]

Originally Posted by Docere

In Toronto people in the suburbs often refer to the whole pre-1998 city of Toronto as "downtown." Is this a uniquely Toronto thing or does this happen in other North American cities as well?

I would say its reveresed, people that live in urban areas have very strict definitions of neighborhoods and "downtown"

To sombody in a suburban neighborhood downtown will be anything within a few miles of center, to somebody that lives in that radios "downtown" is usually the couple of blocks fo the CBD and the urban neighborhoods around it arent downtown but their own thing.

If im subruban living and I go visit my freind that lives 2 miles NE of the CBD I would tell my other suburban frineds "im going to ____'s place downtown" or even "near downtown"

Its a matter of gradient.

Ive also heared in the Bay Area, Chicago and NY/NJ just refering to the "city" Sombody living out in Pleasonton or Shaumburg or West Orange will just say "they have a place in the city" "I work in the city" Wich could refere to anything that is somewhat dense, older and centrally located but far from their suburban homes.

[JManc]

I've never heard anyone in suburban Houston stretch the term 'downtown' with respect of other areas of town. Downtown Houston strictly means downtown Houston otherwise people use corresponding neighborhood terms for those areas. People are also not that cut off from Houston proper and are in and out of town enough to be familiar with most of the city to know what is or isn't downtown, Midwtown, the Galleria, Eastside, West U and so on.

[ThePhun1]

Houston is so big that even in a giant metro like this, no one would say they're going Downtown unless they literally meant it. They might say "I'm going into the city" but not necessarily DT.

[Steely Dan]

^ i wonder if houston's downtown being completely encircled by an expressway loop helps suburbanites define "downtown" more tightly?

in cities like chicago and toronto where very high levels of urbansim extend far beyond the confines of downtown, perhaps the situation is more confusing for those from the outskirts.

[JManc]

That and our downtown's footprint is pretty tiny in relation to the city's overall size...because it was hemmed in by the freeways.

[The North One]

Yes, media does it too.

[LA21st]

When I lived in NOVA, I heard "downtown" when suburbanites talked about even neighborhoods in DC like Tenleytown.

In the San Fernando Valley, I hear people refer to LA proper as the city. Sometimes they'll say, "LA" Which is kind of weird to me, since they are technically in LA.

[Docere]

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

^ i wonder if houston's downtown being completely encircled by an expressway loop helps suburbanites define "downtown" more tightly?

in cities like chicago and toronto where very high levels of urbansim extend far beyond the confines of downtown, perhaps the situation is more confusing for those from the outskirts.

Yes, we have a very smooth transition from downtown to neighborhoods particularly going west.

So I get the "it all seems like downtown to me" sentiment...to a point. But when that definition extends to say, the Beaches (5 miles east of the CBD) or Yonge and Lawrence (6 miles north) that's ridicously stretching it.

[ThePhun1]

Originally Posted by JManc

That and our downtown's footprint is pretty tiny in relation to the city's overall size...because it was hemmed in by the freeways.

Another point is that in Houston it's the opposite. Individual neighborhoods get treated like they're cities, especially outlying ones like Kingwood or Clear Lake.

[JManc]

Originally Posted by ThePhun1

Another point is that in Houston it's the opposite. Individual neighborhoods get treated like they're cities, especially outlying ones like Kingwood or Clear Lake.

Yea. I live in Kingwood and own another house in Clear Lake and even though they're both in the city of HOU, they used to be their own thing and they still act and are treated as their own communities.

[Centropolis]

yes, the entire city

[Trae]

Originally Posted by JManc

I've never heard anyone in suburban Houston stretch the term 'downtown' with respect of other areas of town. Downtown Houston strictly means downtown Houston otherwise people use corresponding neighborhood terms for those areas. People are also not that cut off from Houston proper and are in and out of town enough to be familiar with most of the city to know what is or isn't downtown, Midwtown, the Galleria, Eastside, West U and so on.

A few people I know would call anything between Uptown and Downtown (so include Greenway, TMC, etc.) as "Downtown". Going to the Galleria was just one part of Downtown in their eyes. These were people that lived west of The Grand Parkway in the Katy area, so going to Uptown was basically like going Downtown for them. So I'd say a few suburbanites in Houston consider the western half of the loop all as Downtown. To me it didn't make sense but then again, I'm a geography nerd.

I've also heard going "into the city" as well to reference anything in and around the Inner Loop.

[eschaton]

Originally Posted by Obadno

I've also heard in the Bay Area, Chicago and NY/NJ just refering to the "city" Somebody living out in Pleasonton or Shaumburg or West Orange will just say "they have a place in the city" "I work in the city" Which could refer to anything that is somewhat dense, older and centrally located but far from their suburban homes.

"The City" in the NYC area just refers to Manhattan, not all of NYC.

[Chisouthside]

In Chicago I've heard friends from Aurora/Naperville refer to Logan Square as downtown.

I live right by Japantown in San Jose and I've heard people from other parts of the southbay refer to me living in downtown.

When I lived in San Francisco I dont ever remember people referring to the financial district ever as downtown.

[Cirrus]

Yeah totally for DC. For anyone who lives outside the Beltway, "downtown" is all of the District of Columbia, or at least most of it.

Originally Posted by Steely Dan

i wonder if houston's downtown being completely encircled by an expressway loop helps suburbanites define "downtown" more tightly?

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Considering that this does happen in Chicago, and that Chicago is bigger than Houston by every conceivable measure, the size of the city isn't the determining factor here.

It'd be interesting to compare other cities with tightly-encircling downtown loop highways. I assume Dallas is probably the same as Houston. How about Phoenix where the loop is just a *little* further out? Or how about Detroit where there is a clear non-downtown delineation between the city and the suburbs?

[Trae]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Yeah totally for DC. For anyone who lives outside the Beltway, "downtown" is all of the District of Columbia, or at least most of it.

Yeah that's what I was thinking. Considering that this does happen in Chicago, and that Chicago is bigger than Houston by every conceivable measure, the size of the city isn't the determining factor here.

It'd be interesting to compare other cities with tightly-encircling downtown loop highways. I assume Dallas is probably the same as Houston. How about Phoenix where the loop is just a *little* further out? Or how about Detroit where there is a clear non-downtown delineation between the city and the suburbs?

Dallas is similar to Houston, in that anything around Downtown is considered Downtown to a lot of suburbanites. For Dallas, I'd say it's anything south of Northpark Mall area down to the Cedars neighborhood. This Downtown definition gets particularly blurry when talking about Downtown/Uptown Dallas which are right next to each other and both have multiple high-rises. Unless you live in Uptown Dallas, you won't know the difference at all and think it's all the same, except it's a little cleaner than Downtown Dallas.

And because DFW is sectioned off into numerous zoned cities/suburbs, going into Dallas for a lot of people feels like you're going Downtown or to the city.