The Manitoba Provincial Politics Discussion - Page 55

jmt18325 · #**1081** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 4:22 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by StNorberter

Are you saying that because you heard someone say that Canada's corporate tax rates are uncompetitive?

Or do you actually know how Canada's corporate tax rate compares to other countries ( specifically the US)?

That's not what I said - I said that both governments kept us competitive, by keeping us ahead of our peers.

OTA in Winnipeg · #**1082** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 4:29 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Electricity is more there of course, but you can easily control how much you use. Home insurance appears less than here, I am paying about the same in both provinces but have a commercial policy in Ontario because the house is rented. I was told car insurance was very reaonable as long as I wasn't commuting to the city.

Electricity is a LOT more in Ontario. Thousands have been cut off for non-payment. I have plenty of family there paying two to three hundred dollars a month and they are NOT heating the house with electricity. That's just regular household use.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ills-1.3860314

On the other hand, I assume we will be paying more here in short order.

StNorberter · #**1083** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 4:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by jmt18325

That's not what I said - I said that both governments kept us competitive, by keeping us ahead of our peers.

Okay.

Your post was worded so it was really easy to infer you were stating that corporate tax cuts have kept us competitive.

StNorberter · #**1084** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 4:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by OTA in Winnipeg

Electricity is a LOT more in Ontario. Thousands have been cut off for non-payment. I have plenty of family there paying two to three hundred dollars a month and they are NOT heating the house with electricity. That's just regular household use.
http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/toront...ills-1.3860314

On the other hand, I assume we will be paying more here in short order.

And while Motor Vehicle Insurance is cheaper if you've never been in an accident, the minute you get into one, your rates go through the roof.

There are lots of factors to consider, taxes is just one of them.

Riverman · #**1085** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 4:46 PM**

I don't run anything off electricity except a fridge and LED bulbs. If you are careful you can keep usage way down.

biguc · #**1086** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 5:02 PM**

So do you post from a stone tablet or a papyrus scroll?

StNorberter · #**1087** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 5:57 PM**

While hand washing all the clothes, heating water and space using a fire pit in the middle of the house and cooking food on an open fire.

bomberjet · #**1088** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 6:00 PM**

Solar power.

Wolf13 · #**1089** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 6:05 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by StNorberter

It starts at $1.25M, but at 4.3% on the amount ABOVE $1.25M. So at $2M, you pay $32,250, in Ontario you pay $39K. Oops. And if you're under $1.25M in MB you don't pay anything, but you start paying at $1 of payroll in ON.

OH NO!!! Except that many provinces have the same 12% rate as MB (AB,SK,NU), virtually the same rate (QC 11.9%), or marginally less ( ON, NT 11.5%, BC 11%)

We're A lot closer to the lower rates than we are to the higher rates ( NB - 14%, NL,YK - 15%, PEI - 16%)

Debating if we should have lower tax rates or payroll taxes is a different discussion, but don't post blatant bullshit that's too easy to call out.

Ease off the aggression their, slugger.

We are even with AB, who offers a more tax-friendly climate for corporation and citizen by a mile, and in the case of a boom, blows us out of the water. Sure enough, SK also kills us.

And we're still above BC, ONT, and technically, QB. All, except the latter, which are much more competitive than we are.

This is clear as day, and you come off strong like that? For what reason?

Also, refer to ALL THE OTHER STUFF I posted regarded the TTI, etc, which again supports my position that MB/Wpg is not competitive. But hey, that doesn't suit your narrative... cause it seems like you got one of those too

Riverman · #**1090** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 6:24 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by StNorberter

While hand washing all the clothes, heating water and space using a fire pit in the middle of the house and cooking food on an open fire.

Never heard of natural gas?

Intermittent loads like washing machines (1 hour/week) and milliamp draws like phones and tablets aren't worth mentioning. And power is $0.09/kwh overnight so if one wanted to really scrimp, all modern appliances have start timers on them.

StNorberter · #**1091** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 6:31 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf13

Ease off the aggression their, slugger.

We are even with AB, who offers a more tax-friendly climate for corporation and citizen by a mile, and in the case of a bust, blows us out of the water. Sure enough, SK also kills us.

And we're still above BC, ONT, and technically, QB. All, except the latter, which are much more competitive than we are.

This is clear as day, and you come off strong like that? For what reason?

Also, refer to ALL THE OTHER STUFF I posted regarded the TTI, etc, which again supports my position that MB/Wpg is not competitive. But hey, that doesn't suit your narrative... cause it seems like you got one of those too

There are a lot of reasons and areas why MB isn't competitive with other provinces. Corporate income taxes simply isn't one of them. In fact, our small business rate is less than every other province in the country.

There are some rates/fees/taxes that are less in MB than in other parts of the country and vice versa.

But to suggest specific fees/taxes are higher in Manitoba when they aren't, just makes your posts hyper partisan ideological BS

StNorberter · #**1092** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 6:34 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

Never heard of natural gas?

Intermittent loads like washing machines (1 hour/week) and milliamp draws like phones and tablets aren't worth mentioning. And power is $0.09/kwh overnight so if one wanted to really scrimp, all modern appliances have start timers on them.

Well, you did say you don't run anything off electricity except a fridge and LED bulbs.

You have a NG washing machine? where did you pick that up?

And most NG appliances have some sore of electric draw ( timers/displays/controls.)

Riverman · #**1093** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 6:39 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by StNorberter

Well, you did say you don't run anything off electricity except a fridge and LED bulbs.

You have a NG washing machine? where did you pick that up?

And most NG appliances have some sore of electric draw ( timers/displays/controls.)

I mentioned that the washer runs an hour per week. NG appliances (stove, dryer) have draws in milliamps. Water heaters have no draw at all and are not connected electrically at all.

Not an engineer I see.

StNorberter · #**1094** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 6:45 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

I mentioned that the washer runs an hour per week. NG appliances (stove, dryer) have draws in milliamps. Water heaters have no draw at all and are not connected electrically at all.

Not an engineer I see.

Nope.

Gas dryers don't need an electrical connection. Gas Water Heaters have a small electrical draw to operate the controls.

But I was primarily referring to Gas Stoves & Furnaces.

Riverman · #**1095** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 6:47 PM**

All furnaces have blowers so that doesn't count.

StNorberter · #**1096** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 6:51 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Riverman

All furnaces have blowers so that doesn't count.

But again, you said the only things you run with electricity are your fridge and LED bulbs

I won't argue that your electrical bill is less than average ( is it? and what's average?), but there are always going to be small draws around the house that people don't think of.

Riverman · #**1097** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 9:06 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by StNorberter

But again, you said the only things you run with electricity are your fridge and LED bulbs

Yes those are the only major draws. This is getting silly.

Wolf13 · #**1098** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 9:35 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by StNorberter

There are a lot of reasons and areas why MB isn't competitive with other provinces. Corporate income taxes simply isn't one of them. In fact, our small business rate is less than every other province in the country.

There are some rates/fees/taxes that are less in MB than in other parts of the country and vice versa.

But to suggest specific fees/taxes are higher in Manitoba when they aren't, just makes your posts hyper partisan ideological BS

On the contrary, it's the pathological defense of taxation of any variety on this forum that's pervasive in have not provinces. The

And I said what the taxes WERE, not what they were not, so you don't get to say that I misrepresented anything.

Besides, you suggested, through your tone and type of response to skylar (I'm only pulling this because you did it to my post) that Manitoba was competitive from a tax perspective. On a corporate tax basis alone, we are below the median. Meanwhile the TTI, measuring coroporate competitiveness on a taxation basis, says Winnipeg we rank 14th out of 17 Canadian cities.

Turns out I'm not misrepresenting at all.

Am I partisan? Sure. Dishonest? No. The complete resistance to a conservative or lower tax position in this province, while not our only problem, is very frustrating after 16 years of NDP completely screwing, not up, but screwing us.

The manitoba mindset needs to change, because some of Manitoba's most successful, took their mindset abroad.

jmt18325 · #**1099** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 10:04 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by StNorberter

Okay.

Your post was worded so it was really easy to infer you were stating that corporate tax cuts have kept us competitive.

They certainly helped, but they're only one factor.

drew · #**1100** Posted **Mar 10, 2017, 10:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wolf13

it's the pathological defense of taxation of any variety on this forum that's pervasive in have not provinces.

That's cuz for provinces of our approximate size both in population and geography, taxes are our only real way or raising money - since we just can't seem to mine dinosaurs and other related high value commodities out of the ground.

A good comparison is Saskatchewan - what came first - lower taxes - or extra revenue from commodities?

Can Manitoba afford to drop taxes lower than say, Saskatchewan? What do we do to make up the revenue short fall in the short term while waiting for all these new businesses and entrepreneurs to come here - or the long term, if they never do?

Our debt even with all this tax is ridiculous. I am all for some creative accounting to get the business side of this province rolling - but we have to be realistic. Just how far below other provinces would you need to cut taxes to actually force a corporations hand in saying - "well shit, now we have to move to MB"...? or even "well shit, now I have to stay".

In order for Manitoba to be competitive, IMO it's simple. We need to literally strike gold or oil. Or, we need to cut our borders down to roughly our original postage stamp size, and cede the remaining territory to Nunuvut. Hydro is worth shit anyway, and no one seems to want Churchill.