Community Thread (Off Topic) - Page 6

SignalHillHiker · #**101** Posted **Jan 10, 2013, 2:37 PM**

A private, for-profit company shouldn't have a monopoly. It should be public, with the utility allowed only to keep as much profits as necessary to top up its investment and emergency funds. Then, as Manitoba Hydro does in that province, rebate cheques should be sent out annually to ratepayers in order to pay back the difference.

J_Murphy · #**102** Posted **Jan 10, 2013, 2:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

A private, for-profit company shouldn't have a monopoly. It should be public, with the utility allowed only to keep as much profits as necessary to top up its investment and emergency funds. Then, as Manitoba Hydro does in that province, rebate cheques should be sent out annually to ratepayers in order to pay back the difference.

Agreed. It seems a bit shady and greasy to me that Newfoundland Power is raising residential power rates in order to ensure a guaranteed return to the shareholders. I dunno, maybe more of us need to be shareholders in Newfoundland Power.

I must admit I am a bit uneducated on the power structure in this province, but I have to ask why Newfoundland Power exists as it does. In parts of this province, people pay Nalcor (Newfoundland Hydro) directly for their power. Why do we need Newfoundland Power to basically buy the power that is mostly generated by Nalcor (NL Power does have some very small generation) and then turn around and sell it to consumers. Why can't we just buy from Nalcor directly?

statbass · #**103** Posted **Jan 10, 2013, 2:49 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

A private, for-profit company shouldn't have a monopoly. It should be public, with the utility allowed only to keep as much profits as necessary to top up its investment and emergency funds. Then, as Manitoba Hydro does in that province, rebate cheques should be sent out annually to ratepayers in order to pay back the difference.

NL Power is a subsidiary of Fortis Inc., which is a publicly traded company (TSX:FTS). However, I do agree with J_Murphy and think it ridiculous to ask for such a rate hike so Fortis can essential increase it's dividend payout (at the expense of rate-payers). This surmounts to nothing more than price gouging if you ask me.

SignalHillHiker · #**104** Posted **Jan 10, 2013, 2:52 PM**

I think I'm using public wrong. I thought that meant nationalized? Owned by the state? Like public schools, or crown corporations?

That's what I think a utility should be. It was brilliant in Manitoba.

It's an essential service. It shouldn't involve dividends and shareholders.

statbass · #**105** Posted **Jan 10, 2013, 3:38 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I think I'm using public wrong. I thought that meant nationalized? Owned by the state? Like public schools, or crown corporations?

That's what I think a utility should be. It was brilliant in Manitoba.

It's an essential service. It shouldn't involve dividends and shareholders.

There is public sector intervention though. NL Power is requesting this increase; however, this needs to be approved by the PUB. So in essence the PUB must do it's due diligence and make sure this rate request is perfectly justifiable. The consumer advocate will also play a role in the aiding the decision. So is this a good process? Maybe so, maybe not.

Just to let you know, I'm kind of playing devil's advocate here - I completely agree with you're argument. It's just that many regions have privately-own (publicly traded) utility companies which operate efficiently and effectively. I'm not trying to sound too much like a capitalist pig here....

SignalHillHiker · #**106** Posted **Jan 10, 2013, 3:41 PM**

Oh, by all means, play Devil's advocate. I don't know a great deal about this sort of thing and it's wonderful to learn.

If it works efficiently, then that's fine. I still take some offense that the profits of a monopoly wind up in private, rather than public, hands but... fuel, food, shelter... all those profits end up in private hands most of the time as well.

And, it is Fortis, which is good. It's not like it's Quebec Hydro or something.,

statbass · #**107** Posted **Jan 10, 2013, 4:03 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by J_Murphy

Agreed. It seems a bit shady and greasy to me that Newfoundland Power is raising residential power rates in order to ensure a guaranteed return to the shareholders. I dunno, maybe more of us need to be shareholders in Newfoundland Power.

I must admit I am a bit uneducated on the power structure in this province, but I have to ask why Newfoundland Power exists as it does. In parts of this province, people pay Nalcor (Newfoundland Hydro) directly for their power. Why do we need Newfoundland Power to basically buy the power that is mostly generated by Nalcor (NL Power does have some very small generation) and then turn around and sell it to consumers. Why can't we just buy from Nalcor directly?

I think the short answer is that large corporate organizations and governments try to make economics so convoluted so that folks like us decide to give up trying to understand it and just learn to put up with it.....

All jokes aside, I don't really know why the province decided to go down this path (unlike Manitoba Hydro did). Maybe the province wants to focus on production and transmission of power and steer away from selling and distribution. That latter does seem to be more along the lines of business and not in scope with government. If anyone has knowledge regarding this I would love to learn more about it.

Copes · #**108** Posted **Jan 10, 2013, 6:33 PM**

As the capitalist pig in the group (

) I very much believe that utilities should be publically traded companies, outside the hands of government. Government should have nothing to do with utility distribution. I firmly believe that businesses run more effectively, have people better trained to manage funds / resources / inventory / customers / etc., and ultimately could put every penny to the best possibly use. I support Fortis owning Newfoundland Power.

What I have a problem with is a publically traded company having a monopoly on an industry. Go nuts Fortis, provide us with power... but when you increase your rate above something I'm willing to pay, I want to have the option to go and get my power from the cheaper guy. I want options. Options, and competitions force companies to be constantly innovating and constantly striving to provide the cheapest, best bang-for-your-buck product. Currently, in Newfoundland this is not happening.

The utility being provided by a private company isn't the problem here. The problem is that one of the other foundations of capitalism is being ignored: competition.

statbass · #**109** Posted **Jan 10, 2013, 6:59 PM**

Quote:

Originally Posted by Copes

As the capitalist pig in the group (

) I very much believe that utilities should be publically traded companies, outside the hands of government. Government should have nothing to do with utility distribution. I firmly believe that businesses run more effectively, have people better trained to manage funds / resources / inventory / customers / etc., and ultimately could put every penny to the best possibly use. I support Fortis owning Newfoundland Power.

What I have a problem with is a publically traded company having a monopoly on an industry. Go nuts Fortis, provide us with power... but when you increase your rate above something I'm willing to pay, I want to have the option to go and get my power from the cheaper guy. I want options. Options, and competitions force companies to be constantly innovating and constantly striving to provide the cheapest, best bang-for-your-buck product. Currently, in Newfoundland this is not happening.

The utility being provided by a private company isn't the problem here. The problem is that one of the other foundations of capitalism is being ignored: competition.

Well put, but having independent bodies such as the PUB and the consumer advocate does, in theory, create an indirect form of competition - provided these entities perform their rightful duties. NL Power can request a rate increase but ultimately the PUB can accept or reject this. The realism is that rates will increase - the cost of doing business + our propensity to have increasingly more damaging storms + inflation + a whole host of other factors will drive rates up. It'd be naive to think rates will stay the same. The issue I have is the magnitude of the increase; I don't think it's justifiable. I hope the PUB with do it's due diligence here and not raise the rates by this amount (+7.2%), that's just too high. If not, this process becomes a load of horse$**t!

This is only one example of how NLers (and Canadian consumers for that matter) get the short end. For instance, look at cell phones - The CRTC puts so much red tape on the industry it makes it near impossible for non-Canadian mobile companies to compete in this market. That, in turn, allows Rogers, Telus, and Bell to form a cartel and set prices how they see fit... no free market competition here, just an illusion. I'm sure many of you know that consumers in Europe and the US have better plans that cost less. Sorry for flying off on a tangent.. It's a sensitive subject for me....

Townie709 · #**110** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 12:17 AM**

It's snowing.. Alot!!

Marty_Mcfly · #**111** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 12:50 AM**

Man, why is honeydew so good?

SignalHillHiker · #**112** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 3:57 AM**

Storm... Snow... Fun...

SignalHillHiker · #**113** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 3:58 AM**

I am watching World War II in Colour, episode 8, The Soviet Steamroller. Sounds like a disgusting sex move... but it's not.

Townie709 · #**114** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 4:00 AM**

Sure it isn't...

I am watching this. Over and over again

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3GZaJMYM98

I can't figure out how to get the video to display in the post..

SignalHillHiker · #**115** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 4:01 AM**

A video that doesn't exist, over and over?

Townie709 · #**116** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 4:03 AM**

It exists now! I just can't get it to display so you don't have to click the link

SignalHillHiker · #**117** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 4:04 AM**

You have to put just the video ID portion, in your link, it would be this:

J3GZaJMYM98

Inside the YOUTUBE tags with those square brackets:

• Video Link

Townie709 · #**118** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 4:05 AM**

I see said the blind man.. I see

SignalHillHiker · #**119** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 4:06 AM**

Oh, I saw that on Facebook today. I don't understand... is he a comedian or someone with special needs? If it's the latter, good on him. It's cool that he can get a laugh with his over-the-top interest and concern. If it's the former... what?

Townie709 · #**120** Posted **Jan 11, 2013, 4:09 AM**

No, he's special needs and his dream is to be a weatherman. I just love his enthusiasm! I'm also glad to see that most of the comments are supportive and not hateful and rude. It's fine to have a laugh at something, but I can't stand when people attack the person in the video. Glad to see that we are morally good people

His enthusiasm is very amusing all the same!