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  #32121  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2016, 7:11 PM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is online now
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Originally Posted by LouisVanDerWright View Post
See, this is the problem. We don't have a direct democracy for a reason. We are not supposed to "lobby" and elect officials because they promise us a handout (whether corporate or individual welfare). We are supposed to elect officials who will make the most rational decision on any given policy based upon the input of qualified advisors and the best interest of the people.

The poor electing people who will give them handouts is no different than public sector unions electing people who will give them raises or corporations getting people elected who will give them tax loopholes. It's all the same debasement of our society and breakdown of the rule of law.
this is all going to get deleted anyway so im not going to go to any real effort to reply other than to say that the poorest and most vulnerable segments of our society attempting to work even a small portion of the system in their favor is really the least of my concerns, given how much the system itself has fuck*ed them over the years. more power to them.
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  #32122  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2016, 7:18 PM
the urban politician the urban politician is online now
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
somehow it only a problem when the poor try to use government to advocate for them. when the rich craft policies to favor themselves, thats simply known as democracy i guess.
No it's friggin not. How many times do I have to tell you that I have a problem with BOTH of those situations?

Sheesh, it's like reinventing the wheel with you every time we have this discussion. I might as well be talking to a broken turntable
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  #32123  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2016, 7:51 PM
JK47 JK47 is offline
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Originally Posted by the urban politician View Post
Let's face it, this is an absolute corruption of zoning. Zoning laws exist to create a legal framework as to who can build what, of what size and dimensions, how many units, commercial or residential, etc etc.

You're describing how zoning functions not it's purpose. Zoning, as a process, is intended to improve the quality of life in a community by coordinating the uses of adjacent parcels in order to avoid conflicts.
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  #32124  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2016, 8:00 PM
PKDickman PKDickman is online now
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
The size of the site creates a mandatory PD. Even if the developer cut their proposal in half, it wouldn't matter... PD kicks in above 3 acres (for detached homes) or 60 units for multifamily. No matter how you develop the site it will be above those thresholds.

Because of the mandatory PD, the alderman has the leverage to demand affordable housing even when the ARO does not explicitly require it.
Certainly he has leverage, but whether he would use it is unclear in this case, because that is not what the developer asked for.

It would not be required by the ARO.

Personally, I believe the local oversight of any project put through the PD process solely on the basis of threshholds, should be limited to how the project interacts with the surrounding community. Things like curb cuts and drainage could have the force of demands, but brick color and affordability, should never raise above the level of polite suggestions.
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  #32125  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2016, 8:28 PM
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Originally Posted by PKDickman View Post
In this case that is exactly what it does.
But the framework (Approx 340 units) is not what the developer wants.
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
The size of the site creates a mandatory PD...
Because of the mandatory PD, the alderman has the leverage to demand affordable housing even when the ARO does not explicitly require it.
The alderman only has leverage to demand, has zero leverage to actually ensure those demands are met. And here his demands are apparently for 160 fewer units total (which of themselves would help control prices) for a measly 18 more affordable units. And he won't actually get those 68 affordable units because they're not going to be built.

He could have had 500/50, and walked away wanting 340/68. Makes no sense.
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  #32126  
Old Posted Feb 12, 2016, 11:19 PM
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Originally Posted by prelude91 View Post
The problem as I see it is the poor usually don't know what is good for them, they need to be told what to do in most scenarios, not the other way around.
This is a joke...right?
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  #32127  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2016, 3:15 AM
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  #32128  
Old Posted Feb 13, 2016, 6:16 PM
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Originally Posted by prelude91 View Post
The problem as I see it is the poor usually don't know what is good for them, they need to be told what to do in most scenarios, not the other way around.
This kind of thinking is backwards. You are seriously uninformed.
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  #32129  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2016, 12:12 AM
Via Chicago Via Chicago is online now
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Prelude must think he is immune from financial hardship. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

All it takes is one job loss or health issue or economic downturn. Never forget that, and never think that you are somehow superior to anyone else based on your income. It is utterly meaningless, and if you think it's not you have a lot left to learn in life. Would be far more interested to hear how your contributing to society.
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  #32130  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2016, 3:27 PM
prelude91 prelude91 is online now
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Originally Posted by Via Chicago View Post
Prelude must think he is immune from financial hardship. Ignorance is bliss I suppose.

All it takes is one job loss or health issue or economic downturn. Never forget that, and never think that you are somehow superior to anyone else based on your income. It is utterly meaningless, and if you think it's not you have a lot left to learn in life. Would be far more interested to hear how your contributing to society.
I'm not sure how any of this is relevant to what I said. Perhaps I should clarify, I'm speaking specifically about affordable housing/Gentrification.

I own 4 buildings in Pilsen, so have first hand account on the stupidity I hear in the neighborhood about the neighborhood. The fact is, virtually all of the people I speak with don't have a clue about economics, and make demands that are financially unfeasible. I don't understand how they are in a position to be telling the decision makers how the neighborhood should be run.
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  #32131  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2016, 4:55 PM
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as feared, St Adalbert is officially closing. i hope another congregation is able to step in and make use of the space.
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  #32132  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2016, 6:40 PM
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as feared, St Adalbert is officially closing. i hope another congregation is able to step in and make use of the space.
Definitely, or at least reused with the same structure. That building is too beautiful to go to waste
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  #32133  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2016, 8:41 PM
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Definitely, or at least reused with the same structure. That building is too beautiful to go to waste
I'm super sad to see this go. It was the home church for two generations of my family, now I live around the corner.

Fortunately, it's not just the church but a large parking lot and school/rectory that sits comfortably inside the TOD zone of 18th.

A fairly dense redevelopment here could save the church building, especially if the parishioners have made headway towards raising the $3M restoration cost and Solis doesn't make any bullshit affordable housing demands.

Unfortunately the Archdiocese often frowns or outright prohibits re-use for religious purposes, so a Protestant congregation can't move in.
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  #32134  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2016, 10:04 PM
Emprise du Lion Emprise du Lion is offline
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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
I'm super sad to see this go. It was the home church for two generations of my family, now I live around the corner.

Fortunately, it's not just the church but a large parking lot and school/rectory that sits comfortably inside the TOD zone of 18th.

A fairly dense redevelopment here could save the church building, especially if the parishioners have made headway towards raising the $3M restoration cost and Solis doesn't make any bullshit affordable housing demands.

Unfortunately the Archdiocese often frowns or outright prohibits re-use for religious purposes, so a Protestant congregation can't move in.
Sadly they haven't. Apparently their GoFundMe page has only raised $1,650 over 9 months.
https://www.gofundme.com/rbhwb33u
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  #32135  
Old Posted Feb 14, 2016, 10:49 PM
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As sad as it might be to see a beautiful piece of architecture go, I can't be saddened to see religion lose its grip on this city. I would gladly trade all of the basilicas, mosques, temples and grand religious structures for architecture that actually serves some use.
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  #32136  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2016, 2:24 AM
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As sad as it might be to see a beautiful piece of architecture go, I can't be saddened to see religion lose its grip on this city. I would gladly trade all of the basilicas, mosques, temples and grand religious structures for architecture that actually serves some use.
I could not disagree with you more strongly.

A city without a soul and with no place for the sublime or supernatural is not a city I want to live in.
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  #32137  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2016, 4:48 AM
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Originally Posted by HowardL View Post
As sad as it might be to see a beautiful piece of architecture go, I can't be saddened to see religion lose its grip on this city. I would gladly trade all of the basilicas, mosques, temples and grand religious structures for architecture that actually serves some use.
I'm sure you have some reasoning for disliking religion, but you do have to realize the cultural importance of these buildings and the way they bring communities together. That seems like a very harsh thing to say about religion and the people who follow them
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  #32138  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2016, 1:43 PM
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The argument that these structures don't serve some use and that we should gladly throw them out because they have a religious purpose completely disregards their historical & cultural significance.

Using those arguments, we would no longer have the Egyptian pyramids, temples, statues, etc etc because the Pharaohs are no longer around to use them, and nobody worships the Egyptian Gods any more.

Obviously these churches/cathedrals have served an important role in Chicago's history, and while we probably will still lose some of them, I believe we will need to find a way to preserve as many of them as we can based on their cultural importance. While I agree that it would be hard to argue using public money to do so, some sort of creative financing will need to be found.
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  #32139  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2016, 4:25 PM
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agreed. im athiest now, but i grew up catholic and my brother became a priest so maybe i have a different perspective on it. lord knows the church has done enough things i dont agree with. but they also serve a considerable good and the vast majority of the people involved with it are some of the most selfless individuals you will ever meet. theyre the ones down on lower wacker feeding people at the crack of dawn on winter mornings. theyre the ones organizing food and coat drives. theyre the ones who have educated (at a high degree of quality) a large portion of the chicago population. whoever it was upthread saying to "get government out of charity"...well, this is who's there to pick up the slack.

as far as the buildings, few other cities can match the variation of styles and architects that the immigrants employed at the turn of the century, and the high degree of quality the churches were built to. it will never happen again, and we throw that legacy away at our own peril.

we all worship something at the end of the day, and consumerism has no less of a cult like pursuit by many at this stage.

Last edited by Via Chicago; Feb 15, 2016 at 4:35 PM.
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  #32140  
Old Posted Feb 15, 2016, 7:11 PM
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I'm not religious, and yet I really enjoy visiting and viewing "grand religious structures" from various faiths all around the world.

The notion that these buildings shouldn't exist, shouldn't be preserved or shouldn't be as grand as they are strikes me as being very naive.

I find grand displays of religion to be far more interesting than grand displays of advertising (like Trump Tower has become, for instance).
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