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  #21  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 2:26 AM
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Originally Posted by Kenneth View Post
What is nuts to me is that with the high number of blacks in the Detroit Metro region the number of black entrepreneurs is so low. It is sad that an area with such a high number of minorities is at the bottom of the list, and i know this is true even without using census data. This is a serious issue that needs to keep being addressed. There is no reason that blacks shoild not have more control and wealth in their own community.
detroit has over 30,000 black owned businesses. there are plenty of entrepreneurs there but the lady who owns the wig shop or the dude running the bait shop or oil change place doesn't sound as sexy as the guy in atlanta with the tech start up or recording studio. detroit still has the largest black population (percent wise) of city in america, its just broke as $%^&.
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  #22  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 7:02 AM
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It's far from clear that the black entrepreneurs in Atlanta are running "tech startups and recording studios". Yes, Atlanta may have a handful of these people... but I'd wager it is more like New Orleans, where the high self-employment rate is driven heavily by black people working in construction trades and running small independent businesses (street retail/restaurant mainly).
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  #23  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 9:58 AM
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Wow, the rust belt is terrible for American blacks. I have guessed as much.
Is it that they're worse for blacks, or worse for everyone?

Plus there is certainly some selection bias. Blacks that are upwardly mobile and have the skills to get a job anywhere are choosing to move to Atlanta, which makes Atlanta look better and the residents remaining in the cities that people are leaving are worse and worse off.

I'm not saying it doesn't offer some improvements (people are moving there for a reason), but I do think it's largely the same story with the Sunbelt for whites with similar incomes. Better weather, lower cost of living, and a demographic that simply doesn't care about many of the things that make many of us on this forum prefer the older industrial cities.
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  #24  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 2:06 PM
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Originally Posted by brickell View Post
Real thread title should read "Atlanta: the unofficial capital of American blacks"

Discounts the Jamaicans, Haitians, Guyanese, Africans etc that make up significantly larger numbers in places like NYC, Miami, LA.
Agreed. For Caribbean blacks, of both the Latin and non-Latin variety, NYC and Miami figure far more heavily. Dominicans, a nominally black group, recently became NYC's largest Latino nationality, with some 750,000 calling the city home. Haitians are also a large group in both cities, and Jamaicans and Guyanese are still some of the largest net immigrant groups to NYC.

African blacks still gravitate towards Washington, DC, and increasingly NYC and Houston. In particular, the western parts of the Bronx are drawing large numbers of West African people from Ghana, Nigeria, Senegal, and Gambia. You can get pretty good Ghanaian food near Yankee Stadium/Grand Concourse these days.

LA differs from these cities in that its black population is overwhelmingly African-American. There are decent-sized Ethiopian, Belizean and Jamaican communities, but this is nothing like NYC, where the black population is nearly 50/50 African-American and Caribbean.
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  #25  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 2:58 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Is it that they're worse for blacks, or worse for everyone?

Plus there is certainly some selection bias. Blacks that are upwardly mobile and have the skills to get a job anywhere are choosing to move to Atlanta, which makes Atlanta look better and the residents remaining in the cities that people are leaving are worse and worse off.

I'm not saying it doesn't offer some improvements (people are moving there for a reason), but I do think it's largely the same story with the Sunbelt for whites with similar incomes. Better weather, lower cost of living, and a demographic that simply doesn't care about many of the things that make many of us on this forum prefer the older industrial cities.
the black middle class leaving rustbelt cities is an order of magnitude worse, it seems, at least in st. louis. is this something that can be tracked? just the physical effect of black middle class residents leaving almost literally inflicts a physical damage on some cities that historians won't be able to get their heads around for a few more generations. black middle class retention should be a top priority in midwestern cities, but that ship is and has sailed.

i cannot emphasize enough how catastrophic this is, and it seems to be rarely discussed in midwestern cities.
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  #26  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 3:07 PM
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In the midwest, Latinos seem to be replacing the middle class black population no?
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  #27  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 3:12 PM
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In the midwest, Latinos seem to be replacing the middle class black population no?
there are not enough immigrants/latinos coming into the midwest to plug the hole in any city, not even chicago. maybe minneapolis.
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  #28  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 7:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
the black middle class leaving rustbelt cities is an order of magnitude worse, it seems, at least in st. louis. is this something that can be tracked? just the physical effect of black middle class residents leaving almost literally inflicts a physical damage on some cities that historians won't be able to get their heads around for a few more generations. black middle class retention should be a top priority in midwestern cities, but that ship is and has sailed.

i cannot emphasize enough how catastrophic this is, and it seems to be rarely discussed in midwestern cities.
Well said and I agree.
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  #29  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 7:43 PM
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Originally Posted by 10023 View Post
Is it that they're worse for blacks, or worse for everyone?

Plus there is certainly some selection bias. Blacks that are upwardly mobile and have the skills to get a job anywhere are choosing to move to Atlanta, which makes Atlanta look better and the residents remaining in the cities that people are leaving are worse and worse off.

I'm not saying it doesn't offer some improvements (people are moving there for a reason), but I do think it's largely the same story with the Sunbelt for whites with similar incomes. Better weather, lower cost of living, and a demographic that simply doesn't care about many of the things that make many of us on this forum prefer the older industrial cities.
Anecdotally, I know of precious few middle class black suburbs in my city of Pittsburgh. All too often, the middle class blacks live in the old rundown mill towns with perfectly livable houses in the 40-60k range but poor schools and poor services. I can only think of one thriving largely black middle class area with housing prices in the 80-150+ range (once again, very modest middle class) which is Penn Hills.
I can't think of a single area with 200k+ range homes that is popular among professional class blacks.

The most common scenario are black neighborhoods where almost everyone rents in run down areas and often times have little hope of ever owning even a modest home.
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 8:00 PM
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we have a fragile black middle class in st. louis, and it is primarily centered in inner and mid suburban st. louis county. the raw reality is that the fallout of the ferguson riots, tragically, were primarily inflicted upon the black middle class/ownership class in ferguson and other small municipalities in st. louis county.

i've become much more aware of these often sloughed-over dynamics since then.
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 8:14 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
we have a fragile black middle class in st. louis, and it is primarily centered in inner and mid suburban st. louis county. the raw reality is that the fallout of the ferguson riots, tragically, were primarily inflicted upon the black middle class/ownership class in ferguson and other small municipalities in st. louis county.

i've become much more aware of these often sloughed-over dynamics since then.
Yes, "fragile" is a great word for it. I totally understand.
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  #32  
Old Posted Jan 24, 2015, 10:17 PM
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Well said and I agree.
I think the black middle class is leaving eastern cities, like NYC, and western cities, like LA and Bay Area. Most middle class blacks want to live in a nice, newer house in the suburbs, and housing costs in cities like Atlanta and now Charlotte for newer big houses are much, much less than NYC, LA, etc. I wonder if the blacks leaving LA and SF are moving to places like Las Vegas and Phoenix... I also guess you can also get a nice newer house that is priced within your budget closer to the city in a place like Atlanta, but for other cities you have to live in the exurbs 50 or so miles from the city to get a cheaper newer house. I think that is the case in Chicago when I lived there; the newer suburban houses were in the far western suburbs, like Bolingbrook or Elgin, and the old inner suburbs, like Harvey had smaller houses and appeared to be decaying (some of the older suburbs that held up like Skokie and Evanston had older but every expensive houses) . I know many blacks from Long Island that moved to Atlanta area because of the nice big houses that would be could get for $200K or so; such houses would run $400-500K on Long Island, plus the taxes would be double or triple.
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  #33  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2015, 2:54 AM
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I think the black middle class is leaving eastern cities, like NYC, and western cities, like LA and Bay Area.
The problem in these areas, in part, is that there is no affordable sprawl in proximity. Middle class blacks (like most middle class Americans) like sprawl to an extent, and there is no such thing available.

In NYC, LA, SF, if you are leaving the city because of affordability issues, the suburbs aren't going to be the answer. Unless you move way the hell out, 50-60 miles out, you will not get mortgage relief.
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I know many blacks from Long Island that moved to Atlanta area because of the nice big houses that would be could get for $200K or so; such houses would run $400-500K on Long Island, plus the taxes would be double or triple.
And this would be a good example. 400-500k gets you basic entry starter home on Long Island, 60-70 years old, will need work, and with sky high taxes. There are a few black areas, but they're either wealthy, poor, or immigrant. There aren't really sprawly type middle class modern tract home areas with many blacks. New construction of a decent sized house will start closer to 1 million, even in the sticks.
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  #34  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2015, 5:40 AM
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detroit still has the largest black population (percent wise) of city in america, its just broke as $%^&.
But metro wise...
http://blackdemographics.com/populat...ty-population/

Top 10 by %
Jackson, MS 257,021 48%
Memphis, TN 601,043 46%
Montgomery, AL 159,330 43%
Macon, GA 100,934 43%
Columbus, GA 119,023 40%
Shreveport, LA 155,174 39%
Baton Rouge, LA 285,911 36%
Fayetteville, NC 132,833 36%
Augusta, GA 196,695 35%
Mobile, AL 142,992 35%


Top 10 by % with Black populations over 500,00

Memphis, TN 601,043 46%
Atlanta, GA 1,707,913 32%
Norfolk–Virginia Beach, VA 522,409 31%
Baltimore, MD 778,879 29%
Washington, DC 1,438,436 26%
Charlotte, NC 421,105 24%
Detroit, MI 980,451 23%
Philadelphia, PA 1,241,780 21%
Miami, FL 1,169,185 21%
Cleveland, OH 416,528 20%

Top 10 overall #

New York, NJ-NY 3,362,616 18%
Atlanta, GA 1,707,913 32%
Chicago, IL 1,645,993 17%
Washington, DC 1,438,436 26%
Philadelphia, PA 1,241,780 21%
Los Angeles, CA 1,230,023 7%
Miami, FL 1,169,185 21%
Houston, TX 1,025,775 17%
Detroit, MI 980,451 23%
Dallas-Ft Worth, TX 961,871 15%


Quote:
Originally Posted by Kingofthehill View Post
LA differs from these cities in that its black population is overwhelmingly African-American. There are decent-sized Ethiopian, Belizean and Jamaican communities, but this is nothing like NYC, where the black population is nearly 50/50 African-American and Caribbean.

Thanks for the info. I knew LA was popular with Belizeans for some reason, just assumed it attracted others from the Caribbean also.
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  #35  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2015, 3:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
the black middle class leaving rustbelt cities is an order of magnitude worse, it seems, at least in st. louis. is this something that can be tracked? just the physical effect of black middle class residents leaving almost literally inflicts a physical damage on some cities that historians won't be able to get their heads around for a few more generations. black middle class retention should be a top priority in midwestern cities, but that ship is and has sailed.

i cannot emphasize enough how catastrophic this is, and it seems to be rarely discussed in midwestern cities.

This is NOT true, trust me I'm a member of the St. Louis black middle class and I can tell you for certain that this is NOT the trend in St. Louis. In fact, St. Louis' regional black population is still growing, according to this article 6.4% growth between 00'-13', the non-white population growth is what is keeping St. Louis afloat, native born whites have been fleeing region by the tens of thousands since 2000. One thing we also have to consider is that black families in St. Louis bring in about $31,000, which is about $5,000 more than Milwaukee, Cleveland, Buffalo, and $3,000 more than Cincinnati, Louisville, and Pittsburgh. Black St. Louis also only makes $3,000 less than Black Chicago, which is a big deal, because I would rather make $31,000 in St. Louis than $34,000 in Chicago.

One thing we also have to consider is that St. Louis has much closer ties to the traditional south than other rust belt cities. St. Louis is the only one with a HBCU with Harris-Stowe University. In many way St. Louis is more similar to a city like Baltimore, many blacks came for manufacturing jobs, but there was already an established black elite of former freeman that established a black middle class and cultural institutions. There is a long tradition of black nurses and teachers in St. Louis, Mill Creek Valley and the Ville (the historically black neighborhoods) had mansions and middle class homes for blacks during the Jim Crow era!
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  #36  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2015, 3:15 PM
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Speaking of urban areas, this really comes down to DC vs Atlanta (and maybe LA or Detroit?).

The black middle class in Chicago, Philly, St Louis, Baltimore is pretty fragile comparatively
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  #37  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2015, 3:28 PM
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Speaking of urban areas, this really comes down to DC vs Atlanta (and maybe LA or Detroit?).

The black middle class in Chicago, Philly, St Louis, Baltimore is pretty fragile comparatively
nobody is arguing that
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  #38  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2015, 3:38 PM
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Originally Posted by Centropolis View Post
we have a fragile black middle class in st. louis, and it is primarily centered in inner and mid suburban st. louis county. the raw reality is that the fallout of the ferguson riots, tragically, were primarily inflicted upon the black middle class/ownership class in ferguson and other small municipalities in st. louis county.

i've become much more aware of these often sloughed-over dynamics since then.

I agree, I worry about the fallout of the Ferguson riots and the effect on the entire St. Louis region. I disagree that the riots were primarily inflicted upon the black middle class, the riots were largely centered around the low income, Canfield apartments and other low income apartment complexes in that area. It is also not uncommon to hear middle class black St. Louis talk very....VERY disparagingly about the protestors, looting, even Mike Brown and these are not blacks most would consider "uncle toms". It is also not uncommon to hear many middle and upper middle class, even working class blacks have a extremely conservative worldview. I've always said that if the GOP wasn't so blatantly racist, got away from the Reagan is God mantra and focused on real issues, they would have a friend in working and middle class blacks.
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  #39  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2015, 3:43 PM
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Interesting article about PGC in DC and how black neighborhoods have rebounded more slowly than others

http://www.washingtonpost.com/sf/inv...y/?tid=HP_more

I will say it is interesting they didn't mention that last year PGC had the highest growth in home prices in the region.
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  #40  
Old Posted Jan 25, 2015, 6:45 PM
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I agree, I worry about the fallout of the Ferguson riots and the effect on the entire St. Louis region. I disagree that the riots were primarily inflicted upon the black middle class, the riots were largely centered around the low income, Canfield apartments and other low income apartment complexes in that area. It is also not uncommon to hear middle class black St. Louis talk very....VERY disparagingly about the protestors, looting, even Mike Brown and these are not blacks most would consider "uncle toms". It is also not uncommon to hear many middle and upper middle class, even working class blacks have a extremely conservative worldview. I've always said that if the GOP wasn't so blatantly racist, got away from the Reagan is God mantra and focused on real issues, they would have a friend in working and middle class blacks.
i think if it were left to popular media, left or right, they would have us believe some inevitable race war was brewing. i think that a bunch of baloney and the majority of rational thinking americans know better. classism is alive and well however and id say above a certain income level, nobody cares what race their neighbor is, they just want them to make as much money as they do and not steal their @$^&. atlanta is an interesting case. its seems like the dream of black suburbia is alive and well. crap, their real estate prices are great too compared to the west coast. if i could live in some 300k mcmansion close to a marta stop, sign me up....
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