[St. John's] The Official Project Thread

[rthomasd]

As we all grow older, we have to decide what our future living arrangements will be. The old notion of dying in your homestead bed isn't so popular anymore. I'd really like to see purpose-built (ie for seniors) apartments developed in convenient locations. One of the features needed for seniors is an on-site cafeteria where you can get a decent meal without having to go offsite or cooking in-house. Doesn't have to be a fancy restaurant, can still go out for that as an option. I think that's a difference between young-professional renters and seniors, but not typically provided in apartments.

The 1970's stigma of apartments ( welfare, low-income, etc ) in St. John's has to be broken. It's still thought by many here that only losers use the bus, the opposite of eveywhere else; many people still see apartments that way.

As a boomer, I don't want to be shovelling snow, repairing the house, etc when I'm in my 70's. Selling the house and moving into a nice apartment is looking attractive to me. Getting more apartment complexes built is the way to go for the next few years.

[statbass]

Originally Posted by rthomasd

It's still thought by many here that only losers use the bus, the opposite of eveywhere else; many people still see apartments that way.

So true! I worked in Ottawa for four summers and rode public transportation during those times. It was very common to see professionals in their expensive business suits riding the bus. Albeit, Ottawa is a government/business/technology town so even if public transportation dramatically improved here I wouldn't expect to see it at that level. The stigma surrounding buses and apartments needs to change.

[goodgrowth]

Originally Posted by statbass

So true! I worked in Ottawa for four summers and rode public transportation during those times. It was very common to see professionals in their expensive business suits riding the bus. Albeit, Ottawa is a government/business/technology town so even if public transportation dramatically improved here I wouldn't expect to see it at that level. The stigma surrounding buses and apartments needs to change.

I lived in Ottawa for a few months and yeah the bus system is very good and a lot of people used it including working professionals. Almost any where in the city you could walk no more than 5 mins and you were at a bus stop with buses coming at every 20 min interval maybe less. If you have a phone with google maps you are set. Clearly you can tell the bus system was part of the urban planning process by some of the large bus stations. Coming from St. John's I was like "oh, so this is what a bus system looks like".

One thing I would argue is...If you look at the development of the Northeast Avalon on a map it does not look like a typical city. It doesn't spread evenly from the city core. St. John's doesn't have the typical North American gridded road system..it has a web of roads. I think this hurts a little when it comes to things like public transport. You don't get the same efficiency. The only way I could see it really start to gain popularity is having some express routes from outer area subdivisions (Paradise) into areas like downtown/malls/big box store centers/mun/cona.

But I seriously think you won't see any improvement until there is amalgamation of Paradise and Mount Pearl into St. John's. Otherwise there will be arguments over how much to pay and invest into further development.

[nando]

Plans for Temperance Street have changed... larger footprint, but different type of building altogether. Thoughts?

http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...nce%20St-2.pdf

[SignalHillHiker]

Hate the setback.

But fine with the building design.

[SignalHillHiker]

November 3

A delightful taste of late summer in St. John's today. Sunny and the temperature peaked at 18.5C.

• Video Link

[Horsell]

WOW !! Your pictures just get better and better!!

[J_Murphy]

The new project on Temperance Street replacing the old Harbourside Condominium project.

Discretionary Use Application has been submitted by RJC Services to develop the property at 32-36 Temperance Street. The proposed residential development will comprise of a 38 unit, four-storey residential condominium building with 44 underground parking spaces. Parking will be accessed from U.S. Army Dock Road with no parking or entrances on Temperance Street. The building design will terraced in line with the slope of Temperance Street with height of just one floor above Battery Road. Council has the discretion to allow residential use on the ground floor (first storey) in a building in the CCM Zone.

This application may be viewed at the Department of Planning, Development and Engineering, third floor, St. John’s City Hall. For further information or to view this application, please phone 709-576-8220, or email planning@stjohns.ca.

Any person wishing to make a submission on this application must provide a signed written statement to the Office of the City Clerk by noon, Tuesday, Nov. 11, 2014, either by mail: P.O. Box 908, St. John’s, NL, A1C 5M2; fax: 709-576-8474 or email: cityclerk@stjohns.ca. Written submissions received will become a matter of public record and will be included in the agenda for the regular meeting of Council on Monday, Nov. 17, 2014, at which time Council is scheduled to make a decision on this application.

http://www.stjohns.ca/public-notice/...perance-street

http://www.stjohns.ca/sites/default/...nce%20St-2.pdf

[delesseps]

From VOCM:

A new courthouse complex is in the works for St. John's, but there's no cost, location or timelines yet associated with the project. The Premier announced today that a request for proposals for the design of the facility will be issued 'in the very near future'.

It's a non-announcement, but not what I would have hoped for even if there were numbers and a location included. The Supreme Court downtown should continue to be used as a courthouse by the trial division, as that's the only way the interior will be preserved. People who visited on Open Doors Day will have seen the original finishes scattered through the building, including the British coat of arms in each courtroom. A lot of those would be lost if the building were converted to other uses.

The courtrooms in Atlantic Place definitely needs to be replaced with a proper courthouse, and co-locating the new provincial court with the Family Court, Court of Appeal and related services is a good idea, but replacing HMP should be a higher priority. The provincial criminal justice system isn't much good without a prison that's fit for purpose.

[Horsell]

There have been a few interesting things in the media in recent days regarding shopping patterns and why people don’t shop downtown as much. To no one’s surprise, lack of parking downtown was the big excuse for all those people interviewed in the Costco parking lot.

With the closing of O’Brien’s and a few other empty storefronts downtown there seem to be questions about what is going on, is there a change in attitudes towards shopping.

Many of us have commented in the past that there are some vital services, such as a grocery store, that are lacking downtown but what is the best mix for such a location.

Is the retail trend, along with the many developments on the shelf, a sign that maybe the economy isn’t quite as rosy as the politicians and real estate agents would have us believe?

There has been a fair bit of activity in the past 5 years, is it possible we are now saturated in terms of office supply, condos, hotels and big box stores? Does development drive the economy or does the economy drive development? I’m leaning more towards the latter.

Let’s face it, St. John’s (North east Avalon) is still a pretty small economic region and it doesn’t take much to satisfy a demand in any given area for a few years. It’s not as if there are tens of thousands of people flocking to the area each year, it has been much less than that.

It would be nice though to see one of our pet projects get underway soon so that we will have something to comment on here.

[SignalHillHiker]

Fingers crossed.

I hate seeing empty storefronts downtown. It still has the bustle, thank God, but there are noticable empty stretches now.

[statbass]

Originally Posted by Horsell

There have been a few interesting things in the media in recent days regarding shopping patterns and why people don’t shop downtown as much. To no one’s surprise, lack of parking downtown was the big excuse for all those people interviewed in the Costco parking lot.

With the closing of O’Brien’s and a few other empty storefronts downtown there seem to be questions about what is going on, is there a change in attitudes towards shopping.

Many of us have commented in the past that there are some vital services, such as a grocery store, that are lacking downtown but what is the best mix for such a location.

Is the retail trend, along with the many developments on the shelf, a sign that maybe the economy isn’t quite as rosy as the politicians and real estate agents would have us believe?

There has been a fair bit of activity in the past 5 years, is it possible we are now saturated in terms of office supply, condos, hotels and big box stores? Does development drive the economy or does the economy drive development? I’m leaning more towards the latter.

Let’s face it, St. John’s (North east Avalon) is still a pretty small economic region and it doesn’t take much to satisfy a demand in any given area for a few years. It’s not as if there are tens of thousands of people flocking to the area each year, it has been much less than that.

It would be nice though to see one of our pet projects get underway soon so that we will have something to comment on here.

I agree with your assessment above. The market for office space and condos appear to be over-saturated and I don't think we will be seeing many larger developments like it has been for the past 6-7 years - at least not in the short term. The dwindling price of oil doesn't make the situation any better either.

As for the retail market, St. John's always seems to be lagging nationally. We are, in part, the retail centre for the island so I can see some more development on that front. How much? That's hard to say.

The trend of loosing retail in the downtown doesn't seem to be isolated to St. John's; many small/medium sized cities are experiencing this trend as well. Take Moncton for example - they are experiencing unused retail space in their downtown yet major retail development is still happening (e.g. Cabelas and Bass Pro Shop). I believe Halifax is experiencing the same trend too. I'm not using the above examples as an excuse, just for illustrative purposes. I do believe, wholeheartedly, this trend needs to be reversed before things spiral out of control (unfortunately Dannyland and Stavanger aren't helping the cause).

With that being said, I noticed heavy equipment clearing land on Kenmount where the Sandman hotel is proposed. Looks like that development is pushing ahead and hopefully we'll have more to talk about soon (and hopefully others).

[Architype]

All the city has to do is not build any more big box developments, but instead they are developing areas like Galway. Isn't it as simple as that?

[displacednewfie]

Originally Posted by Architype

All the city has to do is not build any more big box developments, but instead they are developing areas like Galway. Isn't it as simple as that?

If it were only that simple. Where I think the problem lies is with the types of stores that are downtown (the aspect that the majority of stores do not appeal to the masses) Once the court house leaves Atlantic Place I honestly think that the entire building should go back to retail and not office space. I know that may seem counter productive but something drastic has to be done if they want to keep the vibrant atmosphere.

Another aspect to this could be the fact that the economic boom is not actually as strong in NL as they want us to think.

[Arrakis]

I think you hit the nail on the head there. Be nice if Atlantic Place returned to be a shopping mall as it was in the mid 70's with dozens of stores on the first three floors. I don't think that will ever happen though. It's probably much easier and cheaper to rent out the space as offices than have retail there as retail success is so sketchy.

Another thing you have to take into account too is parking. The main big complaint about avioiding downtown. Weather is another big issue too. Winter time is brutal with lack of snow clearing on sidewalks.

Overall I think the main people who shop downtown are the ones who work downtown. But once it's quitting time, all those people are gone home and downtown is empty. I worked downtown for over 20 years and would check out the shops and eateries all the time during my lunch break. I changed jobs recently and I'm no longer working downtown and haven't had the urge to go downtown now. Just not worth the hassle. Most of the specialty shops benefit mostly from walk by traffic so I don't think most people would make a special trip to downtown if they could get it elsewhere. Just the way it is.

All of the proposed condos that would have brought hundreds of people to live practically on the doorsteps of the downtown stores all seem to have fizzled. The Mix and CBC building condos are cancelled. The star of of the sea condos are in limbo. The newly finished condos at the east end of water street are mostly unsold. Don't know if the atlantic place garage condos/hotel will ever proceed with the current state of condo sales.

A lot of people like to blame the big box stores for the woes of empty retail space but I don't really feel it's their fault. The closing of O'Briens Music Store wasn't the fault of big Big box stores, it was just poor financial management unfortunately. Also, Lease rates are very high in most locations, many buildings are old and in need of upgrades that landlords (many of whom don't even live in the province) refuse to spend money on.

Originally Posted by displacednewfie

If it were only that simple. Where I think the problem lies is with the types of stores that are downtown (the aspect that the majority of stores do not appeal to the masses) Once the court house leaves Atlantic Place I honestly think that the entire building should go back to retail and not office space. I know that may seem counter productive but something drastic has to be done if they want to keep the vibrant atmosphere.

Another aspect to this could be the fact that the economic boom is not actually as strong in NL as they want us to think.

[SignalHillHiker]

Yeah it's a pity the saltpile view condos were first finished. They're not selling because the location sucks.

I find the problem with downtown isn't lack of parking. It's the expectation there be parking. With half the city's population in car-dependent suburbs and no real form of convenient public transit... This is what you get. When I feel super lazy and don't want to walk back uphill after going downtown, I'll park at the bottom of Garrison Hill. But it seems shoppers want to park on the shop floor.

And yes the non-entertainment areas of Water and Duckworth die when the offices close. But most of the shops close then too. The pockets with restaurants and bars and the like tend to stay busy. Always a crowd on the street outside Grapevine for example.

[SignalHillHiker]

Tender's been called for a new school in Paradise. I wonder if this will further reduce the likelihood of one in Kenmount Terrace.

[delesseps]

Originally Posted by SignalHillHiker

I find the problem with downtown isn't lack of parking. It's the expectation there be parking. With half the city's population in car-dependent suburbs and no real form of convenient public transit... This is what you get. When I feel super lazy and don't want to walk back uphill after going downtown, I'll park at the bottom of Garrison Hill. But it seems shoppers want to park on the shop floor.

Agreed. I've never had trouble finding parking somewhere downtown when I needed it. With the new parkades, there's no reason for anyone able to walk the length of Duckworth Street to complain.

[MrChills]

Originally Posted by delesseps

Agreed. I've never had trouble finding parking somewhere downtown when I needed it. With the new parkades, there's no reason for anyone able to walk the length of Duckworth Street to complain.

How often do you go downtown? Granted I haven't lived "home" for nearly four years and unless there has been some sort of mass exodus since I have lived away, but usually you have drive 10-15 minutes around in circles at any peak time of the day to ever get parking on Duckworth or Water.

[SignalHillHiker]

http://happycity.ca/density