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  #21  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2014, 10:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
what, only 16 years ahead of projections?

j/k, that really is awesome! i knew the green line was going to be a major success. connecting the two downtowns of a bipolar metro with rail is so obvious, and then you throw in one of the nation's largest universities along the route and it's like "holy shit, why wasn't this done ages ago?".
Agreed. The Green Line is a no-brainer.

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Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Weren't there some comments earlier about there being more ridership potential if they built the line along I-94 instead?
Yeah, that was miketoronto. He categorically refuses to provide any support for any of his many claims, though, so this one (like the rest) will just float out there in the wind like a slowly dying birthday balloon. I think M-SP made the right choice in that the in-town route will continue to rapidly accelerate redevelopment in the neighborhoods and cores which it serves. That kind of redevelopment isn't as likely when trains run in freeway medians.

Quote:
Skeptic that I am, though, I wonder if the poster on Twitter confused his data somehow.
It does seem very high for just one brand-new light rail line, but it's not out of the ballpark of possibility (e.g. SF's busiest line carries slightly more daily riders). Perhaps curious daytrippers have created an inflating effect on daily ridership so far this year?
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  #22  
Old Posted Sep 19, 2014, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ardecila View Post
Skeptic that I am, though, I wonder if the poster on Twitter confused his data somehow.
He is the Hennepin County Commissioner, and took the lead in putting this project together. This is as close to an official source as it gets without it being in a press release.

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Originally Posted by fflint View Post
Perhaps curious daytrippers have created an inflating effect on daily ridership so far this year?
It is possible that is the case, but on the other hand these numbers are mostly from the time when the University was out of session. A lot of students use transit (or bike) because parking on campus is expensive and difficult.

Last edited by Chef; Sep 20, 2014 at 3:51 AM.
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  #23  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2014, 4:20 AM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
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http://streets.mn/2014/07/07/strangu...he-green-line/
"When federal money became available for LRT to connect St. Paul and Minneapolis, the train seemed destined for I-94, along highway and Soo Line railroad right of ways. A Draft Environmental Impact Statement released in 1993 compared three routes: Burlington Northern (along Pierce Butler), University Avenue, and Soo Line/I-94. The Ramsey County Regional Rail Authority apparently favored the route along the freeway for many reasons, including fastest travel time, least impact on local access, fewest environmental concerns, lowest energy consumption, lowest cost of relocating utilities, and fewest traffic diversions. University Avenue was clearly least desirable on those counts. Most significantly, the study stated that the Soo Line/I-94 alignment would have the highest ridership, 33% more than University Avenue. But, the study got waste-basketed by new commissioners who preferred a train in the middle of University Avenue."

"Consequently the train will have a transit speed only about the same as the present Route 16 bus, but with 46 fewer places to get on and off. It’s likely to run more slowly, on average, than the Route 50 limited stop bus, which had at least eight more passenger stops. The 50 was dropped when the new train started operating, the 16 service has been significantly reduced, and, importantly, the Route 94 express bus service was eliminated outside of rush hour–even though it gets from downtown to downtown far more quickly than the train. "
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  #24  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2014, 1:39 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
http://streets.mn/2014/07/07/strangu...he-green-line/
"When federal money became available for LRT to connect St. Paul and Minneapolis, the train seemed destined for I-94, along highway and Soo Line railroad right of ways. A Draft Environmental Impact Statement released in 1993 compared three routes: Burlington Northern (along Pierce Butler), University Avenue, and Soo Line/I-94. The Ramsey County Regional Rail Authority apparently favored the route along the freeway for many reasons, including fastest travel time, least impact on local access, fewest environmental concerns, lowest energy consumption, lowest cost of relocating utilities, and fewest traffic diversions. University Avenue was clearly least desirable on those counts. Most significantly, the study stated that the Soo Line/I-94 alignment would have the highest ridership, 33% more than University Avenue. But, the study got waste-basketed by new commissioners who preferred a train in the middle of University Avenue."
You listed just about every variable except total costs, a really important stat that determines affordability, that might determine which route actually gets built.
I suppose a subway under the existing route would have been far more expensive - which is why it wash't built.

Light rail lines aren't always built where they move the most passengers in the quickest possible way - they're usually built where local politics wants them.
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  #25  
Old Posted Sep 20, 2014, 4:36 PM
miketoronto miketoronto is offline
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Originally Posted by electricron View Post
You listed just about every variable except total costs, a really important stat that determines affordability, that might determine which route actually gets built.
I suppose a subway under the existing route would have been far more expensive - which is why it wash't built.

Light rail lines aren't always built where they move the most passengers in the quickest possible way - they're usually built where local politics wants them.
Seriously the cost issue is being blown out of proportion. We can't always do the cheapest thing. We have to build the best.
This is what we did previously. Why even built LRT. Why not just do BRT and save even more money???????? Where does the cheapness end?

If you want to continue promoting a car culture, then sure lets keep building these slow LRT lines that are no faster than the bus routes they are replacing. Enjoy your 60 minute commute by LRT while people whizz by you on the highway and get there in 15 minutes.
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Last edited by miketoronto; Sep 20, 2014 at 4:52 PM.
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  #26  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2014, 2:17 PM
MNMike MNMike is offline
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Most Innovative Cities
How the Twin Cities got transit


http://money.cnn.com/interactive/tec...is-light-rail/
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  #27  
Old Posted Oct 23, 2014, 3:35 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by miketoronto View Post
Seriously the cost issue is being blown out of proportion. We can't always do the cheapest thing. We have to build the best.
Where does the cheapness end?
I wasn't advocating building the cheapest thing - what I was advocating was including cost factors within the discussion, not eliminating cost completely.

And it really doesn't matter if a major capital project is public or private, it almost always gets built by the cheapest bidder with the cheapest products and cheapest labor possible - while meeting the published specifications.

To answer your question on where cheapest ends, the answer is with the published or desired specifications. It's okay to build a subway vs light rail when its benefits are deemed worthy of the extra expenditures, likewise light rail over streetcar, streetcar over rapid bus, rapid bus over bus, bus over van, van over no public transit.

There will always be limited financial resources, costs should always be in play in these discussions. It's wrong to dismiss costs entirely.
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  #28  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2014, 2:37 PM
CCs77 CCs77 is offline
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The apta ridership statistics for Q3 have been released

http://www.apta.com/resources/statis...rship-APTA.pdf


According to that, Minneapolis-Saint Paul had an increase of over 100% with a total for the quarter of 5636900 boardings vs 2806000 for Q3 2013 with an average of 64100 riders on weekdays. Putting it at the 10th place, after Salt Lake when considering weekday ridership, and on the 9th place considering total ridership for the trimester (excluding NJ Transit) ahead of Salt Lake and after Denver.

Last edited by CCs77; Dec 19, 2014 at 4:19 PM.
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  #29  
Old Posted Dec 19, 2014, 11:34 PM
zilfondel zilfondel is offline
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  #30  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 4:23 AM
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maps are new.......
check out the vikings stadium
anybody know the date of picture
the stadium is full of people
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  #31  
Old Posted Jan 8, 2015, 7:18 AM
eleven=11 eleven=11 is offline
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maps are new
wiki or google maps
check out the new ballpark in downtown st paul
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