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View Poll Results: Do you think an LA-SD megalopolis or mega region is possible?
Yes 9 15.00%
No 30 50.00%
Already happening 21 35.00%
Voters: 60. You may not vote on this poll

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  #41  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 6:05 AM
CaliNative CaliNative is offline
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Originally Posted by LA21st View Post
Why would they leave that new stadium? I dont see that at all. And you need to develop a fan base here. it' going to take years. it's foolish to think it would happen over night.

Its like people talking about the Clippers leaving. it will never happen.
I'm just throwing a HM pass and hope it lands.
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  #42  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 1:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post

the better analogy for DC/Baltimore in california would be SF/SJ.
Well, yes. But nobody is arguing that those two cities (SF and SJ) are part of the same Metro region.

People are arguing SD and LA being or not being part of the same metro, just like people argue about DC and Baltimore being or not being part of the same metro.

I wasn't pointing out obvious and/or agreed upon metro region city combos.

Also, the thread called this an LA-SD Megalopolis. Arguing that these two cities don't form a megalopolis is like saying NYC and Philly don't form one either, which they do.
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  #43  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 2:56 PM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
^ megalopolis isn't a bunch of cities functioning as one. New York and Philly are still too far apart to ever really grow into one giant metro area and very few people other than some on the fringes of either metro would actively commute into the other. Same with SD and LA and the latter are more or less already developed along the I-5 and I-15 corridors around Pendelton.
NYC and the city of Philadelphia will always be separate, but there's plenty of overlap between the metro areas already. They even have public transit overlap, since New Jersey Transit operates trains and buses into both New York and Philadelphia.

NY and Philadelphia are probably the only two major cities in the U.S. that are located in two different states but you can still get from one to the other by only using local public transit services (i.e. not Amtrak or Greyhound).
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  #44  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 3:24 PM
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The main problem to them, be it for NYC-Philly or LA-SD, is the current low growth.

If they were booming, densification of Bucks, Mercer, Somerset and Middlesex counties would create lots of overlapping between New York and Philadelphia metro area, with tens of hundreds of people, crossing their borders to work in both directions.

For Southern California, things are a bit more complicated as there are less people in between. If a strong growth, densification of core LA-Orange core would create lots of jobs while Inland Empire would keep very fast growth, which would make many people leaving in northern San Diego County crossing into LA area for work and people in Riverside County working on San Diego core.

I guess it would require extra 5 million people in both regions to make this scenario to work.
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  #45  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 4:02 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post

NY and Philadelphia are probably the only two major cities in the U.S. that are located in two different states but you can still get from one to the other by only using local public transit services (i.e. not Amtrak or Greyhound).
You can exclusively use local transit between Chicago and Milwaukee as well.

Take Metra's UPN commuter rail line from Chicago to its northern terminus in Kenosha, then transfer to the Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee commuter bus into Milwaukee (the two routes actually are scheduled to sync up when they can).

Of course, doing that will take you at least 2x longer than just taking Amtrak's Hiawatha route between Chicago and Milwaukee, but it is possible
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  #46  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 4:13 PM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
NYC and the city of Philadelphia will always be separate, but there's plenty of overlap between the metro areas already. They even have public transit overlap, since New Jersey Transit operates trains and buses into both New York and Philadelphia.

NY and Philadelphia are probably the only two major cities in the U.S. that are located in two different states but you can still get from one to the other by only using local public transit services (i.e. not Amtrak or Greyhound).
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Originally Posted by Steely Dan View Post
You can exclusively use local transit between Chicago and Milwaukee as well.

Take Metra's UPN commuter rail line from Chicago to its northern terminus in Kenosha, then transfer to the Kenosha-Racine-Milwaukee commuter bus into Milwaukee (the two routes actually are scheduled to sync up when they can).

Of course, doing that will take you at least 2x longer than just taking Amtrak's Hiawatha route between Chicago and Milwaukee, but it is possible
This applies to LA/SD as well.

I feel that Los Angeles and San Diego are separate metros, but there is some overlap and transit overlap as well. If Temecula in southern Riverside County is considered part of the IE, then I know of a person who commutes from Temecula to San Diego for work, and I know of a person who lives in San Diego who actually commutes to Temecula.

Also, the LA commuter rail Metrolink goes as far south as Oceanside in northern San Diego County. From there, you could transfer to the local SD County commuter rail network (COASTER and SPRINTER).

And then of course there's Amtrak's Pacific Surfliner service that goes from San Luis Obispo with a stop at LA's Union Station (and other stops of course) and then terminates in San Diego.
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  #47  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 4:17 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
NYC and the city of Philadelphia will always be separate, but there's plenty of overlap between the metro areas already. They even have public transit overlap, since New Jersey Transit operates trains and buses into both New York and Philadelphia.

NY and Philadelphia are probably the only two major cities in the U.S. that are located in two different states but you can still get from one to the other by only using local public transit services (i.e. not Amtrak or Greyhound).
That means you guys only have NJ Transit separating you from this. Be wary...
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  #48  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 4:22 PM
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Originally Posted by CaliNative View Post
Well said sopas ej. I guess he never spent time in the populous and vast liberal districts of affluent west L.A., Silver Lake etc. Almost as blue as San Francisco. I was there in the 1970s/early 80s when the environmental activists on the westside stopped the freeway expansion (at one time a freeway through Laurel Canyon was planned-we stopped that), saved the Santa Monica Mountains from tract housing with the state parks and National Rec. Area, got the subway rolling, etc. I was side by side with Councilman Braude and Mayor Bradley. Unfortunately, in many cases, the supervisors don't always mirror these attitudes. If Tejon Ranch were put to a vote of the people, it would probably be defeated 60/40. 5 supervisors are not enough for such a populous county. Bikemike is right about that. We can do better.
And during the 1970s-1980s, people would refer to Santa Monica (somewhat derisively) as the "People's Republic of Santa Monica." Santa Monica was pretty progressive with its rent control policies and its attitude towards the homeless, among other things.

And yes, Los Angeles County needs better representation in terms of its Board of Supervisors. I remember reading somewhere back in the 1990s that by virtue of LA County being the most populated county in the whole US, and having only 5 Supervisors, for a locally elected government position, each Supervisor is in a very politically powerful position.
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  #49  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 4:28 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
And during the 1970s-1980s, people would refer to Santa Monica (somewhat derisively) as the "People's Republic of Santa Monica." Santa Monica was pretty progressive with its rent control policies and its attitude towards the homeless, among other things.

And yes, Los Angeles County needs better representation in terms of its Board of Supervisors. I remember reading somewhere back in the 1990s that by virtue of LA County being the most populated county in the whole US, and having only 5 Supervisors, for a locally elected government position, each Supervisor is in a very politically powerful position.
Southern California always struck me as more 'down to earth' politically compared to the Bay Area which tends to act more abstractly.
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  #50  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 5:24 PM
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Originally Posted by yuriandrade View Post
The main problem to them, be it for NYC-Philly or LA-SD, is the current low growth.

If they were booming, densification of Bucks, Mercer, Somerset and Middlesex counties would create lots of overlapping between New York and Philadelphia metro area, with tens of hundreds of people, crossing their borders to work in both directions.

For Southern California, things are a bit more complicated as there are less people in between. If a strong growth, densification of core LA-Orange core would create lots of jobs while Inland Empire would keep very fast growth, which would make many people leaving in northern San Diego County crossing into LA area for work and people in Riverside County working on San Diego core.

I guess it would require extra 5 million people in both regions to make this scenario to work.
I believe we call tens of hundreds "thousands"

*forgive me if you are ESL. Just joking.
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  #51  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 5:39 PM
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Would the LA-SD megalopolis include Tijuana as well? I believe there are 90,000 border crossings daily at the San Ysidro Port of Entry. I wonder what the daily commute numbers are like between LA and SD. It seems as if SD might share more overlap with Tijuana than it actually does with LA. I'm not sure how many commute daily from LA to SD or vice versa. Maybe just those that live or work in the southern parts of OC or IE.
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  #52  
Old Posted Sep 21, 2020, 9:11 PM
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Originally Posted by edale View Post
I believe we call tens of hundreds "thousands"

*forgive me if you are ESL. Just joking.
In fact, I remember I wanted to say hundreds of thousands...
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  #53  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 1:15 AM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Would the LA-SD megalopolis include Tijuana as well? I believe there are 90,000 border crossings daily at the San Ysidro Port of Entry. I wonder what the daily commute numbers are like between LA and SD. It seems as if SD might share more overlap with Tijuana than it actually does with LA. I'm not sure how many commute daily from LA to SD or vice versa. Maybe just those that live or work in the southern parts of OC or IE.
TJ is a part of the San Diego metro area so presumably it would be included as well. Tons and tons of people commute over the border daily, including many Americans who prefer the cheaper rents in TJ.

There is virtually no commuting between LA and SD, there's no point in driving 4-8 hours everyday from one expensive area to another expensive area. Some people commute in from southern OC to North County San Diego, furthest I've heard of is from Mission Viego, but not so many as you might think. The only place that has large amounts of people commuting into San Diego county is Temecula/Murrieta in the IE.
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  #54  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 1:35 AM
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Originally Posted by JManc View Post
Southern California always struck me as more 'down to earth' politically compared to the Bay Area which tends to act more abstractly.
SoCal, or at least LA, tends to make more sensible decisions than NorCal at the public voting level. But the efforts determined by the LA city council and county supervisor are a shitshow of non-sense progressive grandstanding. I don't think NorCal takes it as far, but they're not immune to stupid experiments that result in San Franciscans now having to pay close attention not to step on sidewalk needles. Of course, there have been decades of anti-housing masquerading as progressive local control and preservation that NorCal has only recently developed a counter-movement against.
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  #55  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 4:25 AM
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Originally Posted by iheartthed View Post
NYC and the city of Philadelphia will always be separate, but there's plenty of overlap between the metro areas already. They even have public transit overlap, since New Jersey Transit operates trains and buses into both New York and Philadelphia.

NY and Philadelphia are probably the only two major cities in the U.S. that are located in two different states but you can still get from one to the other by only using local public transit services (i.e. not Amtrak or Greyhound).
You can get to LA from San Diego (and back) by using the Coaster and Metrolink commuter rail. In Oceanside you transfer from the Coaster train (from downtown SD) to the Metrolink train which takes you on to L.A. Union Station, and all the other places served by the vast Metrolink system. I'm not sure if the covid has cut trains, but this was true before. Amtrak also makes the same run.
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  #56  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 4:39 AM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
And during the 1970s-1980s, people would refer to Santa Monica (somewhat derisively) as the "People's Republic of Santa Monica." Santa Monica was pretty progressive with its rent control policies and its attitude towards the homeless, among other things.

And yes, Los Angeles County needs better representation in terms of its Board of Supervisors. I remember reading somewhere back in the 1990s that by virtue of LA County being the most populated county in the whole US, and having only 5 Supervisors, for a locally elected government position, each Supervisor is in a very politically powerful position.
Each LA County Sup. Has about 3 times more constituents than a member of the U.S. House of Representatives. This is absurd. It makes them remote and indifferent to their constituents. There should be at least 15 Sups.
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  #57  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 4:43 AM
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Originally Posted by CaliNative View Post
Maybe not the only 2.
Definitely not. As mentioned earlier in the thread, Chicago/Milwaukee are also connected by local transit.

And so are Boston/Providence and DC/Baltimore.

Perhaps some others as well.
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  #58  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 6:49 AM
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Looks like the poll is split fairly evenly. I think it might be due to differing personal definitions of what a megalopolis is. Is there even an official definition? To me, it implies that there is one great, dominant central city that all the other smaller cities and towns depend on. Basically a MSA or CSA.

That being said, I don't think LA-SD fits this. I've always thought of them as being their own thing. I don't think SD relies on LA economically the same way as Long Beach or Riverside might. Just because the fringes of SD's metro have sprawled all the way to nearly meet the fringe sprawl of LA's metro doesn't turn it into a megalopolis, IMO.

Likewise, I wouldn't call SF-Sacramento a megalopolis either just because of developments in Vacaville, Dixon, and Davis connecting them.
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  #59  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 2:31 PM
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Originally Posted by homebucket View Post
Looks like the poll is split fairly evenly. I think it might be due to differing personal definitions of what a megalopolis is. Is there even an official definition? To me, it implies that there is one great, dominant central city that all the other smaller cities and towns depend on. Basically a MSA or CSA.

That being said, I don't think LA-SD fits this. I've always thought of them as being their own thing. I don't think SD relies on LA economically the same way as Long Beach or Riverside might. Just because the fringes of SD's metro have sprawled all the way to nearly meet the fringe sprawl of LA's metro doesn't turn it into a megalopolis, IMO.

Likewise, I wouldn't call SF-Sacramento a megalopolis either just because of developments in Vacaville, Dixon, and Davis connecting them.
I agree with you; to me, a "megalopolis" implies that a huge region functions as one, and it's common for people to zip around from one end of it to the other. Like I said in an earlier post, LA and San Diego don't really depend on each other economically; each is its own entity.

And I totally agree with you in regards to SF and Sacramento; I'm glad you brought it up. In recent years, I've encountered people who live in the Sacramento area who consider themselves to be part of the Bay Area. I'm like "Whaaat??" I guess there might be super-commuters who commute from Sacramento to SF, or at least from Sac to somewhere in the Bay Area?

I know that Tracy has grown into a bedroom community, and some people in Tracy say they are part of the Bay Area, even though Tracy is closer to Modesto than it is to SF, or even the San Francisco Bay. What are your thoughts, homebucket, regarding this?
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Last edited by sopas ej; Sep 22, 2020 at 2:49 PM.
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  #60  
Old Posted Sep 22, 2020, 3:27 PM
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Originally Posted by sopas ej View Post
I know that Tracy has grown into a bedroom community, and some people in Tracy say they are part of the Bay Area, even though Tracy is closer to Modesto than it is to SF, or even the San Francisco Bay. What are your thoughts, homebucket, regarding this?
I think Tracy is right at the border. I don't know the exact numbers but I believe there is a decent number of residents from Tracy that commute into the inner Bay Area for work. There is commuter rail called ACE (Altamont Corridor Express) that connects Tracy to San Jose, so even though Tracy itself is mostly agricultural, it still contributes directly to the Bay Area economy via employment. The Altamont Pass is basically like a mini Grapevine. I imagine there's also a decent amount of people commuting daily over the Grapevine into LA and is probably the stimulus for the Tejon Ranch community. Are there also a lot of commuters from Lancaster/Palmdale?
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