NEW YORK | 461 Dean St (Atlantic Yards B2) | 322 FT | 33 FLOORS

[antinimby]

That looks terrible.

[THE BIG APPLE]

I feel that these buildings will rape the Barclay's Center, and make it loose it's luster. I know for a fact that they're definitely TOO close.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by THE BIG APPLE

I feel that these buildings will rape the Barclay's Center, and make it loose it's luster. I know for a fact that they're definitely TOO close.

"Too close" is the New York style. I hope the other residential towers will have as much density, at least a little more than has been shown.

[THE BIG APPLE]

Of course I know that too close is NYC's style, and I'm fine with it a) when it looks good b) when it mostly next to other buildings. This a) doesn't look good and b) it's next to a beautiful arena. I'd be fine if it looked good. Hell, look at the WTC site, the Barclay Vesey Building got completely raped from 3 sides, but all three buildings look good 7 and 1 WTC and to an extent GS.

[NYguy]

http://blog.archpaper.com/wordpress/archives/27872

Unveiled> SHoP’s Prefabulous Atlantic Yards



November 23, 2011
Branden Klayko

From the twisting titanium forms of Frank Gehry’s Miss Brooklyn to a prefabricated tower of 17 unique modules, the design of Atlantic Yards’ runs the gamut of the architectural spectrum. On November 17, Forest City Ratner and SHoP Architects confirmed rumors that the 22-acre project will house a collection of the world’s tallest prefabricated buildings, beginning with the 32-story B2 tower nestled alongside the Barclay’s Center on Flatbush Avenue and Dean Street.

SHoP chose to break down the visual mass of the building by forming three distinct stacked and set-back volumes in accordance with guidelines set out for the project by the Empire State Development Corporation. Even though the façade will be comprised of hundreds of identical pieces, Chris Sharples, principal and founder at SHoP, told AN that the tower is designed to hide its modularity. “It won’t be obvious that this is a modular building,” he said. “We looked at how to create variation in window sizes, color, and set-backs. The façade will create a tactile sense when you look at the building.” Deep reveals on each tower’s façade create dramatic shadow lines and perforated metal panels add variation.

[NYguy]

http://www.observer.com/2011/12/how-...a-few-million/

How Invested Is Bruce Ratner In Prefab? Oh, Only a Few Million


By Matt Chaban 12/12

Last week, The Observer looked at Bruce Ratner’s plans for a prefabricated Atlantic Yards project—whether he was serious about the project and whether he could achieve the steep 20 percent savings he claimed for the modular building process. A number of real estate professionals were skeptical on both counts, but they all pointed to the developers out-sized investment in prefab technology as an indicator of his seriousness. Now we know just how much of an investment that has been.

Forest City Ratner has spent $3.5 million on research and development for prefab construction, according to The Journal, which dug the number out of its annual report. Since Mr. Ratner began considering prefab apartment towers in 2009, that is more than a million dollars per year. Add to that the lawsuit Forest City helped fight, and this seems like a considerable commitment to this new approach.

This may put to rest claims that the developer was only looking at prefab as a means to break the unions and get a better rate from them on Atlantic Yards. Then again, with 15 towers containing millions of square feet of space, a few million could be but a drop in the bucket if it means bigger labor saving on the future of the site...

[AYInfoNYC]

Read this news....

World's Tallest Prefab Building Proposed will only employ 190 – substantially less by thousands promised

www.tinyurl.com/7omuddb

Originally Posted by M II A II R II K

Low-cost construction set for Atlantic Yards towers


Read More: http://www.crainsnewyork.com/article...TATE/111119886

[SD_Phil]

^I'm really mixed about this.

First, a question:

I read the article but couldn't tell whether the 190 employees were just at the construction site or included both construction workers at the pre-fab location AND at the site.

Either way that is a pretty dramatic savings. I'm torn about what to think. On the one hand I understand that construction especially is an industry that was hit hard by the last recession and that technologies like this seem to imply that construction jobs will probably never recover their pre-recession numbers even if the number of buildings being built returns to earlier levels.

On the other hand I think this makes for some really interesting innovation that could be a kind of game changer for mid-rise construction in the country. If the savings really do amount to 20% (did I read that right?) then that is huge. Many more buildings would pencil out if this figure is right.

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by SD_Phil

^I'm really mixed about this.

First, a question:

I read the article but couldn't tell whether the 190 employees were just at the construction site or included both construction workers at the pre-fab location AND at the site.

Just an FYI- that isn't a media article.

That's a press release by a lobbyist organization that has been fighting Atlantic Yards for years.

And that lobbyist organization has zero credibility. They've filed countless lawsuits, and all were eventually tossed.

Now, granted, I have no idea whether the jobs claims have any merit. My point is that the source is not to be trusted, and its sole aim is to discredit Atlantic Yards.

[AYInfoNYC]

AGAIN CRAWFORD... you are just espousing more Ratner propaganda... Atlantic Yards Watch IS a community-based initiative & has NEVER been a lobbyist organization... you are clueless...

We @ www.AtlanticYardsWatch.net have NEVER filed any lawsuit and what was posted is NOT attributed to us, we are passing on public FACTS about Barclay's Arena & the Atlantic Yards Project, you on the other hand post baseless garbage that has no facts or truth...... ask Jon Walton, Editor, Construction Digital, jon.walton@wdmgroup.com +1 (760) 579-7876 or is Construction Digital just another group based in Calif that is against Barclay's Arena, IT IS A a media article...

So no matter how many times you post Ratner propaganda it doesn't make it fact... I'm now convinced that you do work for FCR...

Originally Posted by Crawford

Just an FYI- that isn't a media article.

That's a press release by a lobbyist organization that has been fighting Atlantic Yards for years.

And that lobbyist organization has zero credibility. They've filed countless lawsuits, and all were eventually tossed.

Now, granted, I have no idea whether the jobs claims have any merit. My point is that the source is not to be trusted, and its sole aim is to discredit Atlantic Yards.

[AYInfoNYC]

Some interesting articles.....

http://therealdeal.com/newyork/articles/44757

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000...NewsCollection
or
http://tinyurl.com/7ff2k8l

[AYInfoNYC]

From the watchdog blog, written by journalist Norman Oder, offers analysis, commentary, and reportage about Forest City Ratner's planned $4.9 billion Atlantic Yards project, to build the Barclays Center basketball arena and 16 high-rise buildings at a crucial site in Brooklyn.

http://tinyurl.com/7mbq859

http://tinyurl.com/7mcda4k

[Crawford]

Originally Posted by AYInfoNYC

AGAIN CRAWFORD... you are just espousing more Ratner propaganda... Atlantic Yards Watch IS a community-based initiative & has NEVER been a lobbyist organization... you are clueless...

No, you are lying.

Again, Atlantic Yards Watch is a well-funded NIMBY lobbyist group.

It has NOTHING to do with traditional or new media outlets. It has NOTHING to do with the local community here in Brooklyn. It's just a few rich folks angry that Atlantic Yards is being built.

Originally Posted by AYInfoNYC

We @ www.AtlanticYardsWatch.net have NEVER filed any lawsuit and what was posted is NOT attributed to us, we are passing on public FACTS about Barclay's Arena & the Atlantic Yards Project,

This is also a bunch of lies.

Yes, technically Atlantic Yards Watch itself hasn't filed any lawsuits, but the people who organize, fund, and maintain Atlantic Yards Watch are the exact same people who filed all the frivoulous lawsuits against Atlantic Yards.

[JohnQPublic]

I'm flabbergasted by the volume of Crawford's posts...over 5,700? And so insistent that only his view should hold!

The Atlantic Yards project has been so incredibly misbegotten from the start that any defense seems incredible, and suspect. From the Gehry bait and switch to the latest lipstick on a pig from ShOP, it's still a terribly designed terrible idea. There was never any urban planning, the environmental studies bought and paid for by the developer courtesy of the reliably cooperative AKRF, and the Ratner hand firmly in the public till despite the initial promises of "100% private money." All the worst that was feared is coming to pass.

The traffic disaster is accumulating as all independent studies predicted, the arena is now mysteriously directly at the edge of the street in violation of every Homeland Security building requirement, and now Ratner wants to experiment with modular construction on an unheard of scale, without any public or professional discussion of computer stress simulations or scale models. These types of experiments usually end badly, or at the least, tremendously over budget.

And also sadly, predictably...IT'S JUST PLAIN UGLY!

[AYInfoNYC]

@Crawford: My last post directly to you.... now you are crossing the line.... "you are not productive or of no benefit to the topic of the thread and 'slandering' me," I AM NOT a public figure, Atlantic Yards Watch is a public community-based initiative that ANYONE, including you, can post to so I am NOT Atlantic Yards Watch per se, anymore that I am of forum.skyscraperpage.com

You need to research the "Ratner propaganda" you are espousing... at some point you may need to prove what you are posting here.... this forum is for pro & con so for the last time:

Specifically:
1) Atlantic Yards Watch including my involvement is not nor has ever been a "well-funded NIMBY lobbyist group" in any form or I would NOT participate in posting there; Anyone can either post or not with no editorial control imposed on postings.

Please feel free to post your opinions but in any case AYW is an open forum like:
http://forum.skyscraperpage.com

I am directing readers to Atlantic Yards Watch to inform, the reader can judge themselves the validity of the content.

2) I have never stated that I nor Atlantic Yards Watch is a media outlet! I am clearly re-posting public articles with proper legal attribution (direct linking) as such to further inform the readers of this forum. I/we are the local community unlike your posting of:

Originally Posted by Crawford: I live most of the year in Park Slope, right on 8th Ave., a few blocks past Flatbush.

So you are not a full time resident per se.

3) Be able to prove statements like, "This is also a bunch of lies." or "No, you are lying."

4) Atlantic Yards Watch is a community-based initiative that ANYONE can post to and is not editorially controlled per se by anyone any more that this forum is, I am & any other are local or not residents that can post information that they feel is a value to the readers.

You are ill-informed and any additional information that you need to enlighten yourself about Atlantic Yards Watch can be found @

http://atlanticyardswatch.net/contact

Originally Posted by Crawford

No, you are lying.

Again, Atlantic Yards Watch is a well-funded NIMBY lobbyist group.

It has NOTHING to do with traditional or new media outlets. It has NOTHING to do with the local community here in Brooklyn. It's just a few rich folks angry that Atlantic Yards is being built.

This is also a bunch of lies.

Yes, technically Atlantic Yards Watch itself hasn't filed any lawsuits, but the people who organize, fund, and maintain Atlantic Yards Watch are the exact same people who filed all the frivoulous lawsuits against Atlantic Yards.

[pico44]

I think it looks really good. As long as it isn't prefab concrete I think it'll be great.

[NYguy]

Originally Posted by AYInfoNYC

You need to research the "Ratner propaganda" you are espousing... at some point you may need to prove what you are posting here.... this forum is for pro & con so for the last time:

The forum is pro & con, but this thread is not for any particular agenda, which you do seem to have. We try to give both sides, as far as the building goes. This being a skyscraper forum, you can't be at all surprised that many people are interested in seeing this development completed. But not everyone has to agree to like it, which is fine. As you can see, some people don't like the architecture, others are ok with it. However, this thread isn't meant to debate the merits of whether or not Atlantic Yards should be built. We know everyone won't be happy, one way or the other. If the towers are delayed, there are complaints. If construction is fast tracked, there are complaints. What we do know is that this building seems to be moving forward, and whatever the method, we will follow its progress here.

[NYguy]

http://therealdeal.com/issues_articl...uilding-block/

Atlantic Yards: Can prefab be fabulous?
Will the prefab tower at Atlantic Yards look like real architecture, or will it be Lego-like?



December 29, 2011
By James Gardner

The most remarkable thing — perhaps the only remarkable thing — about the recently released plans for a residential high-rise at Brooklyn’s much-debated Atlantic Yards site is not the design itself, but rather the manner in which the project will be built. Conceived by SHoP Architects for Forest City Ratner, the building will be made up of prefabricated units constructed off-site and then assembled on the premises. The prefab component of construction should allow for considerable savings.

The project, known for now as B2 (as in “Barclays Two”), is part of Bruce Ratner’s $4.9 billion, 22-acre Atlantic Yards development. B2 is the first of what will eventually be three residential high-rises that will stand on the southern and eastern elevations of the Barclays arena, along Dean Street, Sixth Avenue and Flatbush Avenue. The building will contain 350 of the development’s 1,500 units (half of them for low- and middle-income families). At 32 stories, it promises to be the tallest prefabricated, modular structure ever built.

The building’s design was in no small degree determined by the guidelines established by the Empire State Development Corporation, the state entity backing the project, which required a complicated series of setbacks. To judge from the renderings, the stiffly geometric results, with their shifting, syncopated planes, recall the same Deconstructivist aesthetic that inspired a number of buildings on West 42nd Street, among them the Condé Nast building at 4 Times Square and the Reuters building at 3 Times Square — both designed by Fox and Fowle.

Perhaps feeling that the pared-down geometry of the structure needed some enhancement, the architects have emphasized the semi-autonomy of each zone by casting it in a different color. In any case, its severe geometry doesn’t look as though, when completed, it will work well with the demonstrative curves of the Barclays arena itself.

Surely the project revealed by SHoP looks, from the initial renderings, to be far duller and more conventional — in purely formal terms — than what Gehry had proposed. However, Gehry’s project was overrated, for all the usual mid-cult reasons — adulation of fame and the tendency to associate newness with importance — attendant upon the labors of starchitects. And B2, though perhaps not better, is surely not worse.

[Rail>Auto]

Down the road, if they decide that they are tired of looking at these buildings and want a non-lego precast look, how hard would it be to convert the buildings to look like regularly constructed buildings?

[scalziand]

Originally Posted by JohnQPublic

...and now Ratner wants to experiment with modular construction on an unheard of scale, without any public or professional discussion of computer stress simulations or scale models. These types of experiments usually end badly, or at the least, tremendously over budget.

And also sadly, predictably...IT'S JUST PLAIN UGLY!

That's not quite true. There's a company in China that has started building prefab skyscrapers with thoroughly tested scale models for much less than the price of conventional construction.

You're right about it being ugly though.