Atlanta - MARTA expansion bill passes

[Eightball]

Originally Posted by shivtim

I never hear people faulting Portland's transit system for having mostly white riders. I wonder why that is?

The top 10 least diverse transit ridership cities (of the 100 biggest cities) are:
East Los Angeles CDP - 99% hispanic
Santa Ana - 92% black
Detroit - 92% black
East Orange NJ - 90% black
Union NJ - 85% hispanic
Memphis - 88% black
El Paso - 87% hispanic
Hoboken - 80% white
Miami Beach - 78% hispanic
Anaheim - 78% hispanic

MARTA sits at 74% black, so it's just outside the top 10. You can see the data here. But it's important to pay attention to the discrepancy between overall demographics and transit rider demographics. As of the 2010 census, the city of Atlanta is 54% black and 36% non-Hispanic white. So it makes sense that the majority of riders are black, especially on the southern parts of the system because the south side of Atlanta is heavily black. There are similar or greater discrepancies between transit demographics and overall demographics in cities with rail like St.Louis, Cleveland, and Charlotte, and in many bus-only cities like Cincinnati, Kansas City, Indianapolis, Jacksonville, Louisville, Nashville, and Albany. So Atlanta transit demographics really aren't out of the ordinary.

It also depends on where and when you ride it. If you take the red line in from North Springs on a morning commute, it's almost all white people. Heading up to Doraville during the day, it's a broad mix of people including Latinos and Asians.

Of course Portland would have mainly white riders, it's 76% white and only 6% black and 7% Asian. http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0108588.html

And if you had read my post correctly, I said major transit systems. None of those (with possibly the exception of Miami) systems you listed is a MAJOR transit system. Detroit is just now building its first rail line, East LA CDP is a small area (Metro in LA has much more diverse ridership), and everything else you listed are pretty much smaller transit systems. Hoboken is a city of 50k people. So what you posted supports what I said - Atlanta is either the most segregated major transit system in the country or 2nd, behind Miami.

And my anecdotal experiences are quite different than yours. I usually get on the DT Decatur station and walking around the area vs who is riding the train are completely different. Hopefully it changes soon and ridership gets more diverse on MARTA!

[shivtim]

What's your point? What does it have to do with MARTA expansion? Why do you care if the majority of people in the city of Atlanta, and therefore the majority of MARTA riders, are black? Why would it be better with more white riders? It's just weird to me that nearly every discussion about MARTA turns to race.

[Eightball]

I'm not the least bit scared of black people. I just think it's sad that so few whites ride the system. I think that speaks to a greater likelihood it will not pass. Hopefully I'm wrong and either way this is my last post in this thread.

[L41A]

It's weird to me also. And what really is sad that someone is sadden by demographics or make such a big deal of it to post. Just sit/stand and ride the trains.

I think the likelihood of it passing is great. It's the city of Atlanta voting. Even if all of the citizens in Fulton and DeKalb were voting and not inhibited by the politicians to allow the vote, it probably would pass.

The significant reason why it's not a county-wide referendum is how governance is set up. It would have taken unanimous, certainly a consensus, of all the jurisdictions in Fulton for it to happen. It only took one politician to block it from happening county-wide. What is remarkable to me is how much support and advocacy that is coming from north Fulton for MARTA expansion.

The outcome of how its now set up being just city-wide may be a blessing in disguise. I see it as accelerating transit on the Beltline and keeping the momentum of development and general favorability and growing desirability in the city continuing.

[eleven=11]

so does this mean the .5 sales tax only goes up for city of atlanta?
and not the county? what is the current sales tax for metro area?

[L41A]

Originally Posted by eleven=11

so does this mean the .5 sales tax only goes up for city of atlanta?
and not the county? what is the current sales tax for metro area?

Yes it would mean it would go up for only the city of Atlanta as it relates to MARTA expansion. However, there are separate transportation-related referendums for the county, not only Fulton but DeKalb - so sales tax could go up there as well.

There is no single sales tax for the metro area. It depends on the jurisdiction. Like answered previously by someone, the sales tax in the city of Atlanta is 8%. The sales tax in the city of Atlanta would go up to 8.5% if the MARTA expansion in the city limits of Atlanta is approved by residents of the city of Atlanta.

[ardecila]

Originally Posted by tascalisa

And that's not even mentioning the mingling with traffic the trains would do...

I agree with the others, I doubt a Peachtree light rail line would ever be funded/built. Needed capacity would be better covered with better frequency on the MARTA rather than new construction on surface streets.

Yeah, if the new lines continue to follow the pattern set by the existing streetcar line, that is a very poor use of transit funds indeed.

Streetcars on the Belt Line - mostly at grade, but on its own right of way - are fine, but mixed-traffic lanes are a recipe for problems. And many of those routing are needlessly complicated, full of jogs and panhandles (biggest being the one at Armour). It probably would be cheaper to condemn the property needed for a straight alignment.

[Ant131531]

We all know if MARTA was mostly white, people wouldn't be complaining.

[BrownTown]

Originally Posted by Ant131531

We all know if MARTA was mostly white, people wouldn't be complaining.

Not true. The big divide is between urban and suburban, not black and white. It's the same problem you get with every transit project, people who can't use it don't support it.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by BrownTown

Not true. The big divide is between urban and suburban, not black and white. It's the same problem you get with every transit project, people who can't use it don't support it.

I completely agree; the nature and structure of the suburbs practically dictates that mass transit won't work within them. Forget the lower density, just thinking of the task of getting to a station (or even bus stop) is overwhelming enough to make someone commute by car.

Who the hell wants to walk down curvy suburban streets with no sidewalks for 1-3 miles to wait on a bus to carry you 5 to 10 miles to a train station where you'll wait 5-10 min for a train to carry you 10-20 miles to your workplace in the city center?

And btw, I've spent enough time with family in Alpharetta to know that is the only way to commute to downtown w/out driving a car. Getting in a car at my aunt's home and driving to North Springs is mostly considered a novelty in their neighborhood instead of a legit transit option.

[cabasse]

^people do do it though. my younger brother works at the suntrust hq downtown, and used to drive to north springs when he lived in woodstock; now he's in cobb county not too far from the future braves stadium, and drives over to perimeter or medical center. (i forget which)

atlanta's suburbs and the existing rail lines should follow DC's model - the existing low density development is mostly hopeless, but a lot could be done to build up nodes around existing historic downtowns (which would be ripe for eventual commuter rail) which would make park and ride more palatable.

[Pink Jazz]

I wonder what will be the next line color. If it doesn't serve Atlanta's gay areas, it should be Pink, otherwise it should be Brown.

[SpawnOfVulcan]

Originally Posted by cabasse

^people do do it though. my younger brother works at the suntrust hq downtown, and used to drive to north springs when he lived in woodstock; now he's in cobb county not too far from the future braves stadium, and drives over to perimeter or medical center. (i forget which)

atlanta's suburbs and the existing rail lines should follow DC's model - the existing low density development is mostly hopeless, but a lot could be done to build up nodes around existing historic downtowns (which would be ripe for eventual commuter rail) which would make park and ride more palatable.

I don't doubt that people do do it, I just don't think that most suburbanites are willing to drive to isolated transit centers. North Springs just feels like it was built as a last ditch catch all for North Fulton for people would are willing to look past perceived inconveniences (such as parking and waiting for a train). Your brother in this case is a smart guy, it's bad enough that he had to drive from Woodstock to downtown, so he was smart enough to know that hopping on a train was probably less of a hassle than battling traffic from 20 miles outside of the Perimeter. I think the difference with your brother is that he's just smart and knows how to use transit.

I agree with your last paragraph, too. There are plenty of nodes around Atlanta that would be perfect for expanded rail service.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

I wonder what will be the next line color. If it doesn't serve Atlanta's gay areas, it should be Pink, otherwise it should be Brown.

i'll bite. why brown, pink jazz

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by cabasse

i'll bite. why brown, pink jazz

Just picked randomly if the line serves the gay areas, since Pink would be too stereotypical. Orange, Purple, or Silver could be options as well.

For my metro area, the existing light rail already serves the gayborhood (Melrose), and I think it should be the Red Line due to being the original line.

[cabasse]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

Just picked randomly if the line serves the gay areas, since Pink would be too stereotypical. Orange, Purple, or Silver could be options as well.

For my metro area, the existing light rail already serves the gayborhood (Melrose), and I think it should be the Red Line due to being the original line.

but you said should be

[Pink Jazz]

Originally Posted by cabasse

but you said should be

That is just my preference, for no specific reason. Is there any gay stereotype that relates to the color brown that I am unaware of?

For my own transit system I chose Red for the existing line that already serves the gay area of Melrose. My idea of a Brown Line for the Phoenix area would be the line serving Scottsdale. My Pink Line for the Phoenix area would serve Ahwatukee, Chandler, Gilbert, and East Mesa.

MARTA already has a Red, Blue, Green, and Gold Line, thus that leaves us with Brown, Orange, Purple, and Silver for a line serving Atlanta's gay areas, so I randomly chose Brown.

[shivtim]

The governor signed the bill today.
Atlanta can pursue $2.5 billion MARTA expansion

“The groundwork has been set for a comprehensive transit bill so we can come back in 2017,” said state Rep. Calvin Smyre, D-Columbus, who was on hand at Deal’s bill signing ceremony.“The state now has a huge stake in the process and MARTA and transit are being talked about in a comprehensive manner,” he said. “For many years, we fought for transit and we were unsuccessful.”

[electricron]

Originally Posted by shivtim

The governor signed the bill today.

A bill that allows them to hold a referendum in Fulton County, which still has to pass. An additional half cent sales tax over the full penny already in force is a regressive tax on the poor. Who knows how the electorate will react to the referendum? Maybe it will pass, and maybe it will fail. Let's wait and see the eggs hatch before we start counting chickens.

[N830MH]

Originally Posted by Pink Jazz

I wonder what will be the next line color. If it doesn't serve Atlanta's gay areas, it should be Pink, otherwise it should be Brown.

Ah, just stay away from the gay areas. Do not go there! Don't don't it. It would be very extremely dangerous for that.