DENVER | Transportation Thread

[seventwenty]

Tell ya what Cirrus, when I go out today I will take pictures and PM them to everyone but you.

[Cirrus]

[seventwenty]

This message has been edited to denote the banning.

[seventwenty]

nvm already covered

[bunt_q]

Originally Posted by seventwenty

This message has been edited to denote the banning.

Cirrus, making Bunt seem friendlier since 2001.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by wong21fr

He might mean that RTD should consider coordinating arrival departure times of the MetroRide and the Mall Shuttle with the various buses routes along the Broadway/Lincoln corridor. Which they already do.

That's not really necessary given the FMR runs 4-6 min headways and the MallRide runs 90 sec headways (in peak). At frequencies like this, you don't need to schedule transfers.

The two main routes on B/L are the 0 and 0L. The 0L only runs in the peak. The 24-hour bus lane doesn't really save any travel time, because it was already being utilized in the peaks (when there is actual congestion). Some travel time savings is gained through the stop consolidation. The test is mostly geared toward better understanding red pavement treatments and their effectiveness, providing more consistent operations for both vehicles and buses, and understanding red pavement maintenance in our climate.

The main choking point for the buses is Lincoln south of 5th. There is a flex transit-lane/parking lane in the AM peak, but Lincoln is heavily congested in the PM as well. A future phase will try to address this issue (it's more complicated because of the parking) and should reduce travel times enough to potentially add an additional bus at essentially no cost (buses travel faster and can make more end-to-end runs in the same amount of time).

To be clear, there are really only 2 sections on Broadway that are receiving the red treatment - 17th to Colfax and Bayaud to Virginia. The rest will be basic solid white lines and "bus only" markings (along with overhead signage that currently exists). And in these sections the red is not full width of travel lane (except at signalized intersection mixing areas). It's modified to test various treatments to better understand violations. Painting the whole lane can be expensive and City is interested in keeping maintenance costs low if results are same or similar. If violations are high, look for more intense markings and paint. Seattle uses red paint only between the wheel path and only at beginning and end of block as seen in the above image.

Other future phases (GO Bond) will bring Broadway to essential "Enhanced bus" status with improved stations (shelters, bulbs, etc.), full implementation of red markings in 24 lane (based on test), and coordinated signal timing (with new 2-way cycle track).

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

The test is mostly geared toward better understanding red pavement treatments and their effectiveness, providing more consistent operations for both vehicles and buses, and understanding red pavement maintenance in our climate.

I wonder how many DOTs have duplicated this kind of test. I have the results of one sitting on my desk.

Denver climate notwithstanding.

[Cirrus]

Aw screw it. I like posting pictures. Here are some red bus lanes around North America. Interestingly, the red seems to come in two varieties, a duller version and brighter one. I like the brighter one better.

Make it a game. Can you name all the cities? Some are easy. The last one is nigh impossible.

1

NACTO on Flickr

2

Public domain photo

3

NACTO on Flickr

4

NACTO on Flickr

5

Matt' Johnson on Flickr

6

Andy Tucker on Flickr

7


8


9


10


11

[CharlesCO]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Aw screw it. I like posting pictures. Here are some red bus lanes around North America. Interestingly, the red seems to come in two varieties, a duller version and brighter one. I like the brighter one better.

I think part of that is dependent on how long ago the street was painted. When Denver painted the pedestrian crosswalks red in a few auto-heavy intersections a few years ago, it was really bright. The paint faded pretty quickly after enough cars drove over it. I remember the same thing happened to (5) Church Street in San Francisco when I lived there and when they painted over the transit lanes.

Here's what Colfax and Colorado looked like right after it was painted around 2011, taken from KMGH:


http://www.thedenverchannel.com/news...estrian-safety

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

I wonder how many DOTs have duplicated this kind of test. I have the results of one sitting on my desk.

Denver climate notwithstanding.

A dozen? Until red is in MUTCD, the FHWA experimentation process requires the analysis. Denver is trying something that NYC did back in the '90s for midblock marking - an 8" solid white line next to an 8" solid red line.

1. NYC
2. Seattle
3. Chicago
4. SF
5. SF
6. Minneapolis?
7. Baltimore
8. Baltimore
9. DC
10. DC
11. DC?

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

1. NYC
2. Seattle
3. Chicago
4. SF
5. SF
6. Minneapolis?
7. Baltimore
8. Baltimore
9. DC
10. DC
11. DC?

Correct except for #10 and #11. One is not in the US, the other is from a much smaller city than the rest of the photos.

Originally Posted by PLANSIT

Denver is trying something that NYC did back in the '90s for midblock marking - an 8" solid white line next to an 8" solid red line.

Interesting. DC uses that striping technique next to the streetcar to reinforce that when car drivers park they really really really have to be close enough to the curb. No blocking the streetcar.



Come to think of it, it's also present at 2 midblock crossings, where the streetcar crosses between the curbside lane and the center lane.

[Cirrus]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

I think part of that is dependent on how long ago the street was painted. When Denver painted the pedestrian crosswalks red in a few auto-heavy intersections a few years ago, it was really bright. The paint faded pretty quickly after enough cars drove over it...

I don't think so. Baltimore striped a bunch of these at the same time earlier this summer, and half of them are dull while the other half are bright. You can see the difference in photos 7 and 8 above. Also, DC's dull red one (photo 9) has been dull since day 1, last year.

Some of these are paint and do fade (especially the older ones). But increasingly these are not really "paint." More and more are a grit substance, a thin layer of additional pavement. Here's a photo I took the day after DC's was added that shows some loose material.

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by Cirrus

Correct except for #10 and #11. One is not in the US, the other is from a much smaller city than the rest of the photos.

Interesting. DC uses that striping technique next to the streetcar to reinforce that when car drivers park they really really really have to be close enough to the curb. No blocking the streetcar.

The parking envelope red marking is basically identical (and NACTO has some guidance for) to what's going in on Broadway, but just on the GP side of the lane.

11. Toronto
12. Still no idea

[CharlesCO]

#10 is York, Ontario, but that's only because I Googled the name of the transit agency that was in the photo. Still no idea where #11 is as there's almost nothing distinct about it other than the architecture, which suggests somewhere in New England/eastern seaboard.

[wong21fr]

Originally Posted by CharlesCO

#10 is York, Ontario, but that's only because I Googled the name of the transit agency that was in the photo. Still no idea where #11 is as there's almost nothing distinct about it other than the architecture, which suggests somewhere in New England/eastern seaboard.

#11 is New Haven, CT. Looked at the license plates and figured it might be in Minnesota, but the architecture was off. So, said "screw it" and googled the image.

[TakeFive]

New Haven ^ Ah, you were quicker than I.

[Cirrus]

Correct. Toronto/York and New Haven.

[TakeFive]

Meanwhile, RTD needing to cut some fat is looking at cutting Golden's end of line frequency.

http://www.denverpost.com/2017/08/27...ublic-transit/

The RTD board of directors this fall will consider whether to curtail weekday frequency on the W-Line — from every 15 minutes to every 30 minutes — between the Federal Center Station and the Golden Station between 9 a.m. and 3 p.m. and between 6 and 9 p.m.

Consider the (bad) timing...

GOLDEN — City officials say that change, which would take effect in January, could disrupt their $100,000 pilot program that is launching Monday. It adds a second bus to its flex bus program so that every train leaving and arriving at Golden Station from 7:30 a.m. to 5:30 p.m. on weekdays is met with a shuttle that helps complete a commuter’s daily trip, by taking them from the station out at the Jefferson County government center to the Colorado School of Mines campus or to downtown Golden.

[PhilipDDG]

I wonder how differently the end-of-line ridership would look right now if Golden hadn't balked at participating in building the W-Line the additional two miles into downtown Golden/School of Mines?

[PLANSIT]

Originally Posted by PhilipDDG

I wonder how differently the end-of-line ridership would look right now if Golden hadn't balked at participating in building the W-Line the additional two miles into downtown Golden/School of Mines?

I could be mistaken, but I don't think the W Line was ever supposed to go to DT Golden. From what I understand, the G Line was always planned to do that via SH 58 in a future phase.