Taipei: The World's Most Underrated City?

[Fabricio JF]

Originally Posted by Quixote

Aside from old palaces, castles, hutongs, and Shanghai's Bund, Asian cities aren't really about architectural beauty. Although I do think that Tokyo's skyscrapers have a certain cosmopolitan language that is absent from even NYC's newest towers. For the most part though, glass skyscrapers are copied and pasted these days. Taipei's Fubon Xinyi A25 looks like a cross between the NYT Building and 3 WTC.

For such a young and relatively small country, Taiwan punches well above its weight — food paradise, history, cultural influences, arts and crafts, nature and scenery, etc. It's a hidden gem that gets overshadowed by its much-larger Han neighbor and the country it looks up to (Japan).

Still, I see Taiwan as visitable for local reasons. There seems to be a greater interest in receiving tourists than in neighboring countries and a lot of freedom.

In Japan, everything seems to indicate that they would be more satisfied if it were the visitor who set foot in Tokyo first. They are right on this point, Tokyo Skytree is the tallest observation tower in the world, but their deck is at 450 meters, putting them in 7th position and a little higher than the Toronto Sky Pod I visited (447 meters)

The Japanese capital is still dispersed and inviting for exploration, as it is advanced and technological.

As for China, they also think that we should like Beijing first and then the others. But in China, at least for some two points seem to stand out more: Many would be more satisfied with stepping into Hong Kong, Macau and Shenzhen (If possible Guangzhou after Shenzhen) afterwards, even with the greatest heat. And others for obvious reasons will prefer Shanghai to Beijing. Despite all this abundance, Mainland is seen with more skeptical eyes, with foreigners and dissidents who have had contact with them believing that they are dealing with people who are more cliquey and less open to dialogue outside their group.

In Taiwan I don't see this tendency to monopolize cities, tourists can choose the one they are most interested in visiting, even if it is Kaohsiung, Tainan, Taichung or making a tour in small villages.

And believe or not, Taiwan has its own light even around giants. It is already recognized for its gastronomy, and also for its boldness. It has a welcoming style just like the Thais and their citizens seem to spread around the world and build an excellent image of the country.

[giallo]

I've been going to Taipei for the last twenty years, and yeah, it's a fantastic city. Whenever I go back to Taiwan to visit my in-laws in Kaohsiung, we always stay in Taipei for a few nights. It's got a really good vibe.

I shot this a couple of years ago when we were back.

• Video Link

[craigs]

I have wanted to visit Taiwan since I was in 4th grade, when one of my best friends told me about his home city of Taipei. He painted a picture of an exotic city even more enticingly chaotic than New York, and I was intrigued. In subsequent decades, I also knew a gaggle of brothers who moved to Kaohsiung and posted a ton of YouTube videos in the early days, so I wanted to go to both Taipei and Kaohsiung. Also, "Monkey Mountain."

[mrnyc]

i regret not going here around a trip to singapore.

plus we have a taipei friend who was recommending it.

so we thought about it, but then plans changed and we did hk and tokyo instead.

however, we flew right over taipei on a very clear day and i was mesmerized.

so it looks great from above - heh.

i hope to go sometime, but for now down under is calling in november.

despite the china tensions if you are young or on your own or something flexible like that i think now would be a good time to visit — i bet they could use the tourism.

oh, and you should visit cleveland too. also underrated.

[Fabricio JF]

There are so many addresses to visit. I still have Auckland, Montreal, French Polynesia, all the 3 alone plus Rome, South of France, Croatia, Bosnia and after those as my most likely destinations and if I don't find a friend who can change my mind, I'll start thinking about Asia, but alone at first it would be Singapore as the first. The others would come later and have similar chances in relation to me choosing to visit Scandinavia instead.

Most appealing places that I don't know for a 4th visit to America in my mind right now in this order:

1 DC (Museums - All)
2 Philly (Food + cosmopolitan vibe)
3 LA (trip to SNF + Downtown + Rodeo Drive + Hall Of Fame)

On my last flight IAH-GRU, an American social worker was my seatmate and we talked a lot. The topic came up about what other places I still need to visit in US. She lived in Virginia, but had previously lived in NYC and is a Seattle native. DC's suggestion was the same as what I thought of as my next destination. An incredible coincidence.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by craigs

I have wanted to visit Taiwan since I was in 4th grade, when one of my best friends told me about his home city of Taipei. He painted a picture of an exotic city even more enticingly chaotic than New York, and I was intrigued. In subsequent decades, I also knew a gaggle of brothers who moved to Kaohsiung and posted a ton of YouTube videos in the early days, so I wanted to go to both Taipei and Kaohsiung. Also, "Monkey Mountain."

I was blown away by the vibrancy of Manhattan when I visited for a week back in June, specifically the density of buildings and the throngs of pedestrians (at least half whom were tourists).

What Taipei has is density of businesses. I see very few retail or food/drink establishments taking up an entire block's worth of storefront real estate. The backstreets being what they are means that you can wander about aimlessly, almost guaranteed of stumbling upon fantastic hole-in-the-wall joints and neat little shops. Visitors can really immerse themselves in the local atmosphere and get a sense of what it's like to live in Taipei. Most cities in the developed world display their "best face" by having the attractions located in polished-looking commercial areas dominated by corporate skyscrapers, chain establishments, and luxury hotels. Residential nabes that are part of the core tend to be wealthy. Taipei doesn't feel "staged" in that way.

I mean, come on, look at how awesome this looks: https://goo.gl/maps/1s3RkNrnAVXMuQa49

[giallo]

Taipei also looks fantastic in the rain. These were taken in the Da'an district.

[Crawford]

Definitely has Blade Runner vibes. Looks wonderful for wandering, at least for urbanites.

[Quixote]

That’s another appealing thing about Taipei. I love rain, and the annual rainfall total there is 93 inches. Too bad for the humidity.

[Quixote]

I’m not sure if I’d want Taipei to undergo the Tokyo treatment and replace its ramshackle-looking housing with something that’s aesthetically utilitarian. You can see that the new residential construction tends to look pretty austere and the buildings are set back.

It also seems to follow a London model where the new/er buildings are more concentrated in the outskirts of the core:

https://goo.gl/maps/Vwyn2HyGzkoaTb7D8

Design-wise though, Taipei and Taiwan have a ways to go to catch up to Japanese standards. Lots of buildings with cheap glass, soft pink tiles, elements that seek to draw attention, etc. One thing I like about banal Japanese architecture is that, even if not pretty, it’s also not offensive-looking.

[Wigs]

Originally Posted by Crawford

Definitely has Blade Runner vibes. Looks wonderful for wandering, at least for urbanites.

From these rainy photos, definitely.

Overall just based on photos and streetview I get Singapore meets Tokyo vibes.
The cleanliness, nice landscaping/trees/shrubs and orderliness of Singapore with the more exciting vibe of Tokyo. And the late night markets where everyone is out and about.

[hipster duck]

Originally Posted by Quixote

What are your thoughts about Taipei and Taiwan as far as urbanism, food, culture, and general inscape?

Taipei is great. The city invites wandering, since 90% of it is built at Parisian-level densities, and the Taiwanese have a strong culture of living their lives on the street, which adds to vibrancy and makes for tasty street food. For those of us who live in cold climate cities, it's very welcome to walk through a place where the front "wall" of a store is largely open and missing.

As a tourist, there are still a few things that I didn't like about Taipei:

It still does kind of feel like a bit of a peripheral place. It's not a cowtown, of course, but it's not very cosmopolitan and it is the primary city for Taiwanese people, not a place where people from far away come to try out new things. East Asian cultures are not immigrant societies, and I don't hold that against them, but there are Asian cities that have had more of a culture of attracting people from far away, because that's where you have to be to do what you want to do. Taipei is not a city anyone who's not Taiwanese really needs to settle in, and it shows.

Similarly, I'd say that while Taipei is great for wandering, eventually the neighbourhood experiences kind of repeat themselves, and traveling through the city feels like going through a Flintstones backdrop. I probably have biases, though: if not immigrants who are visibly different, there may be Taiwanese/Chinese subcultures that sort into one neighbourhood or another, and I'm just oblivious to these.

And, as people have mentioned, the architecture is generally bad and unvaried. It's made up by the fact that the street level is so great, but if you look up you generally see a lot of ugly, clunky buildings with mildewed tile and bits and pieces hanging off the walls.

Even if the underlying urban fabric is fantastic, cities should have a variety of neighbourhoods with different architecture and urban forms - even if some of those urban forms are less "urban" than the ideal. In very dense, vibrant cities I really appreciate visiting genteel upscale neighbourhoods where there are sometimes detached homes and plenty of greenery. I'm not talking about suburban, car-oriented detached home neighbourhoods, but more like what we would think of as "streetcar suburbia". Taipei would do well if it had an area like the French Concession of Shanghai, or something like that.

[3rd&Brown]

Originally Posted by Fabricio JF

There are so many addresses to visit. I still have Auckland, Montreal, French Polynesia, all the 3 alone plus Rome, South of France, Croatia, Bosnia and after those as my most likely destinations and if I don't find a friend who can change my mind, I'll start thinking about Asia, but alone at first it would be Singapore as the first. The others would come later and have similar chances in relation to me choosing to visit Scandinavia instead.

Most appealing places that I don't know for a 4th visit to America in my mind right now in this order:

1 DC (Museums - All)
2 Philly (Food + cosmopolitan vibe)
3 LA (trip to SNF + Downtown + Rodeo Drive + Hall Of Fame)

On my last flight IAH-GRU, an American social worker was my seatmate and we talked a lot. The topic came up about what other places I still need to visit in US. She lived in Virginia, but had previously lived in NYC and is a Seattle native. DC's suggestion was the same as what I thought of as my next destination. An incredible coincidence.

I live in Philadelphia. If you come, we also have amazing museums but I understand if you didn't want to make it the focus of your visit. That being said, you absolutely MUST go to the Barnes Museum. It's the worlds largest private collection of French Impressionist and Post Impressionist paintings, all acquired by a local business man at the start of the last century. He personally befriended many of the painters and they did a ton of commissions just for him. Among the collection, there are about 180 Renoirs, 70 Cezannes, 60 Matisses, 50 Picassos etc etc etc etc. The last time it was calculated, the collection was estimated to have a value of $25 BILLION dollars, though I wouldn't be surprised if it was even higher now.

The building is also stunning. Visitation is capped and managed tightly so you have to book your tickets far in advance usually. I would recommend getting a guided tour because there is a ton of information not just about the paintings, but about the building and the history of the collector, Albert Barnes.

A documentary was actually made about it called "The Art of the Steal".

Philly also has the only museum devoted to Rodin outside of Paris. It's right next to the Barnes and a very quick visit because it's quite small. Highly recommend that as well. Lastly, the Philadelphia Museum of Art is massive. Not quite as big as the Met or the National Gallery, but not that far off either. It's a bit overwhelming and I would probably skip it, but it does usually have really good temporary exhibits that you can buy separate tickets for so I would check if there's any thing of interest before you arrive. When there are blockbuster roaming exhibits that go to only 5 or 10 museums globally, Philly is very often one of them.

EDIT to add: In DC you also should go the the National Museum of African American History. Also have to book in advance. I personally think its' the best museum in DC (or anywhere for that matter). However, I do believe it's one of the few museums in DC that charges an admission fee.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by hipster duck

It still does kind of feel like a bit of a peripheral place. It's not a cowtown, of course, but it's not very cosmopolitan and it is the primary city for Taiwanese people, not a place where people from far away come to try out new things. East Asian cultures are not immigrant societies, and I don't hold that against them, but there are Asian cities that have had more of a culture of attracting people from far away, because that's where you have to be to do what you want to do. Taipei is not a city anyone who's not Taiwanese really needs to settle in, and it shows.

I’d say Taipei has the stature of an Osaka. An international but not cosmopolitan city that fewer Westerners know about, visit, or expatriate to. Only difference is that Taipei looks way more interesting than Osaka. However, I think the fact that many Taiwanese can speak at least some Japanese and that there are lots of retail and food/drink establishments that have descriptions in Japanese, as well as textual information at museums and historic monuments being in Chinese, English, Japanese, and Korean says a lot.

I think as long as Taiwan is not recognized by the international community as an independent, sovereign country, then Taipei and Taiwanese culture will continue to be shrouded in relative obscurity. It’s a hidden gem. That’s the root of my fascination.

[Quixote]

Originally Posted by Wigs

From these rainy photos, definitely.

Overall just based on photos and streetview I get Singapore meets Tokyo vibes.
The cleanliness, nice landscaping/trees/shrubs and orderliness of Singapore with the more exciting vibe of Tokyo. And the late night markets where everyone is out and about.

Tokyo has a solid, though relatively small, polished core for being the world’s largest metropolis, especially considering the main mode of transport is overwhelmingly rail. Outside the core, Tokyo tends to be nodal- and arterial-based, and the aesthetics of its built environment as well as the level of vibrancy quite capricious. Though not a perfect comparison, it’s akin to London.

Tokyo’s backstreets resemble alleys but function as residential streets, while Taipei’s residential streets aren’t treated as an afterthought. In fact, the most interesting businesses are probably tucked away in this maze. It’s three-dimensional over a 20-plus-square-mile area with no real center. The entire core is the center, akin to Paris. But even Paris has somewhat of a center of gravity (the Seine).

If I have one criticism of Taipei’s urbanism, it’s less the architecture and more the need for better rail coverage.

[Muji]

I lived for a lot of my childhood and adolescent years in Taipei, and visit family there once a year or so. I'm sure my view is tinted by my own family background and emotional attachment, but I do think Taipei is indeed a very livable city that offers many examples of urbanism done right (one of the most highly functional metro systems in the world, and a surprisingly good network of urban parks, as some examples). It doesn't quite have the polish of say, Tokyo, but Taipei is similar in offering a mix of very dynamic, highly-trafficked commercial districts and quiet, leafy neighborhoods. And yes, the food on the whole is excellent on any budget

I can't say I have a good read on how "rated" Taipei is in general, but it does seem like the city has gotten a lot more positive attention in the international press in the last decade (completely putting aside issues related to China). It's certainly way more buzz than when I was growing up in the 90s and 2000s. I never would have imaged it in the top 10 of Monocle magazine's livable cities list last year, for example.

[Wigs]

The Metro entrances look so cool. Love all of the greenery and trees!
Hope to visit one day.
Years ago I had an online penpal from Taichung. She was a sweet woman with an identical twin sister. She was obsessed with Australia and after a school exchange program was hellbent on going back to live there.

https://maps.app.goo.gl/Ai2pDf989A8gzeqQ6

[Quixote]

The trees, little pocket parks, well-kept streets, designated pedestrian lanes, and tight grid make it attractive.

The cheap food and walkability is a function of the small storefronts. You'd likely lose some of this with newer, more polished-looking buildings because newer developments tend to have larger footprints and charge more commercial spaces — doubly so, because the space is more attractive and the developer has reduced overall market inventory.

The flip side is because the land and COL are quite expensive (from even the Japanese perspective), there's an incentive to build taller, and more density should theoretically reduce housing costs and result in demand for more amenities. Business owners reap higher profit margins from increasing food/drink prices because of the greater demand, while stronger competition keeps those prices in check and improves the quality of products and services.

From what I'm seeing of the newer developments, buildings are being set back to create elevated sidewalks. The streets still retain only one traffic lane. But what they should really do is continue building arcades at ground level. That maximizes/preserves the current density and creates sidewalks that provide shelter from the frequent rain.

[Quixote]

All of this is to say that Taipei, in its current form, might actually be the urban crown jewel of Asia. It has, in my view, the best urban form (not to mention one of the best natural settings). And if it can improve its architectural aesthetics to Japanese-level standards while preserving the density of commercial businesses, oh man...

[Quixote]

Architecture will improve and tall, shiny skyscrapers will be built.

The icing on the Taipei urbanism cake would be converting Songshan Airport into a large urban park. There's no logical place to build a new secondary airport, but Songshan handles far fewer passengers than the likes of Dallas Love and Oakland.

Taoyuan is within reasonable proximity (36-minute train ride) to Taipei Main Station, and they're currently building a ginormous 6.24-million-square-foot terminal designed by Rogers Stirk Harbour + Partners capable of handling up to 45 million passengers annually.